Wonder Woman 1984

[Riceball]

That's all fine and good, for the superhero. But this story exists in a real world... when Joe off the street jumps in and takes off in the Space Shuttle, you've lost me. It wouldn't be much different than having Chris Pine sit down and start hacking into the Pentagon on a computer because he was shown typing in the first movie. It just doesn't work with the back story.

Well, this is a main stream Hollywood production and as in all in Hollywood production for both movies and TV shows, it's an age old trope to have professionals be experts on everything in their field, no matter how diverse. So, if you're a pilot, you can fly anything with wings, both fixed and rotary, single engine to multiple engine, from piston/rotary to jets. Likewise if you're doctor, then you're an expert all fields of medicine from general practice to brain surgery. It's annoying but I don't see Hollywood stop using this trope anytime soon, they just love their know it all characters too much to do it.

 

[Jedifyfe]

Really? I thought the font choice was uninspired.

 

[HMSwolfe]

Edit: I didn’t realize how much I wrote until I posted it. TLDR: I liked the movie.

I don’t know, I enjoyed the film. I thought the Max Lord character had actually quite a clever workaround for the whole “monkey’s paw/only one wish” deal. Becoming the stone meant he made the terms of what the stone “took” in return for the wish, essentially overwriting potential negative effects for himself, and he could (and did) walk people into making wishes for him. I don’t know. It was a hell of a lot more interesting than “a blue laser is in the sky and we gotta stop it” or “there’s a bunch of robots/demon bugs/alien dogs that are hordes to fight before you make it to the main bad guy”. Like I said before, my least favorite part of the film was, as Alley brilliantly put it, Themiscryan Ninja Warrior, and for a brief while, Kristen Wiig. Her initial scenes felt like an SNL sketch, which I hated until I realized that was why everyone in the film didn’t particularly care for her. The ad-lib rambling schtick wasn’t funny to them either. But she found her footing, and I couldn’t help but be at least partially reminded of Catwoman in Batman Returns. (The character and arc, not the performance.)

Someone asked (I don’t remember who) how did Barbara get two wishes? She didn’t. She got her one wish, being like Diana, and when she became the Cheetah, it was all Max’s doing. In the same way he took people’s vitality to balance out the negative effects of his wish, he took, I don’t know, like rage and power and stuff from people and gave it to Barbara.

I liked the 80’s stuff in the first half, especially the big hair, which I feel like a lot of “nostalgia bait” type stuff either overlooks or doesn’t get right, but it didn’t feel very indulgent to me. Maybe it was the fact that the second half probably could have taken place at any time, whereas the first half was a little more in your face about the time period.

Maybe I just liked the film because I’m a sucker for cursed artifacts and pseudo-archeology in films and it hasn’t really been done that much in a long while.

Sure, the film’s a little cheesy, and the message is a little ham-fisted (which wouldn’t be such a big problem if they hadn’t spelled out the message so clearly and hit us over the head with the beginning “don’t cheat! Shortcuts bad!”), but there was character growth, a sacrifice of personal desire for the greater good, saving people, and some fun action scenes. It’s not the Dark Knight and it’s not Endgame, but it was fun, and the ending wasn’t ruined with a cringey boss battle (with a literal mustache-twirling villain) that contradicted the themes of the whole movie (like the first Wonder Woman). I guess I also liked that the way that the day was saved was by pointing out the good in people, and after a pretty crummy year, especially watching how not great some people can be, it was a nice message to me.

 

[patrickivan]

My wife pointed out something that I agree with in retrospect. That the movie kind of had that old early 80's superhero movie vibe and simplicity of story to it. I think from that perspective, it helps the movie overall. Perhaps some of that cheese was intentionally served, if not perfectly executed.

Though again, it was too long of a movie. I still find it refreshing for the lack of killing. Not that I have any moral objection to that in movies. But it's nice to see in an action movie.

The opening special effects looked FAR better than the rest of the movie. Enough to note the difference as the movie progressed.

 

[dbuck]

My wife pointed out something that I agree with in retrospect. That the movie kind of had that old early 80's superhero movie vibe and simplicity of story to it. I think from that perspective, it helps the movie overall. Perhaps some of that cheese was intentionally served, if not perfectly executed.

Though again, it was too long of a movie. I still find it refreshing for the lack of killing. Not that I have any moral objection to that in movies. But it's nice to see in an action movie.

The opening special effects looked FAR better than the rest of the movie. Enough to note the difference as the movie progressed.

I think overall it had an okay 80’s feel, including the action. I get what Jenkins was going for but I am guessing that test screenings were horrible and reshoots made everything more uneven...which makes most wonder how much it affected the special effects houses. WB gave too much power to Jenkins.

I would have enjoyed the movie more if Cheetah was saved for later......keep her normal but jealous of Diana until Max goes on worldwide TV (oh, there are sooooo many issues with that plot device) for wishes and then she quietly makes her wish and doesn’t renounce it.....and it was at least a half hour shorter. I could have lived with a fair bit of the stupid stuff in this movie but there is just so much of it that the majority now sits in the ‘no friggin way that makes sense’ section within my brain.

 

[Cephus]

I might have liked it more if half of the things in the movie weren't there solely as trailer fodder. That's all most movies are these days.

 

[Psab keel]

I like him better with the sunglasses.

 

[KramStaar]

I have to say that I didn't like it at all. Far too long, unnecessary sequences and overacting by miles. I liked the 80's vibe but felt that some music from the era wouldn't have been misplaced. In the end I thought Patty wrecked not only fresh honesty I enjoyed in the first movie but all the characters she and the cast had worked so hard to create as well. Hopefully she pulls in the excess for Number 3

 

[Paul Andrew]

I enjoyed it, but I'm not crazy about the film. I give it a solid B, I'll probably watch it again. Honestly the thing I liked least was the move to a more orchestral theme for Dianna instead of the screaming guitar riff from BvS and the first WW movie. That was a badass bit of music.

 

[DarkKnight]

a waste of talent, seems like it was directed and written by an 8yo girl for 8 yo girls, tired of the messaging in movies, revisionist history, "honesty" from the most dishonest industry in America? I'd prefer a real story, this was more the story of the mandalorian guy than WW, wasted the beauty and sexiness of GG, insane plot holes, why is Steve Trevor back but hes old? Im sure she didnt wish for an old version, plus they essentially raped some guy over and over again and wore his clothes? Im now super worried, same director for Rogue Squadron? Why does Hollywood keep doubling down on ideas that dont work and people who dont produce? Why does everyone get more screen time than Gal Gadot, why are her outfits intentionally unflattering? plodding dull and poor writing cant save this one. Let me add I hate the kid.

 

[Kylash]

You seem fun.

 

[EKF5]

. . ., why is Steve Trevor back but hes old? Im sure she didnt wish for an old version, plus they essentially raped some guy over and over again and wore his clothes? . . .

As I kept reading this thread, this problem became more important to me. Diana is supposed to be a hero and Steve was presented as a guy who does the right thing in the first film. And neither of them spares a single thought for the guy Steve has displaced. No one worries if he's ok, no one wonders if his spirit is with Hades, no one is concerned that his consciousness might be imprisoned behind Steve watching everything, trapped, and unable to escape, etc.
If these are the heroes extolling honesty and doing the right thing, why don't they exhibit an ounce of empathy for the host?

 

[Psab keel]

Because they are perfect metaphors for most of Hollywood. Virtuous only when it suits their vanity and not because they have true conviction. Even then, it's more often about moral grandstanding than it is the cause. Charity is great but it's best when done with humility and no attempt to draw attention to itself.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Because they are metaphors for most of Hollywood. Virtuous only when it suits their vanity and not because they have true conviction. Even then, it's more often about moral grandstanding than it is the cause. Charity is great but it's best when done with humility and no attempt to draw attention to itself.

Like when Jay Leno was in the papers all the time, changing peoples tires, filling their cars with gas, etc. He was lauded as the greatest of good Samaritans... Then Letterman questioned the convenience of every heroic situation happening only when Leno was traveling with a professional photography team.

 

[Paul Andrew]

As I kept reading this thread, this problem became more important to me. Diana is supposed to be a hero and Steve was presented as a guy who does the right thing in the first film. And neither of them spares a single thought for the guy Steve has displaced. No one worries if he's ok, no one wonders if his spirit is with Hades, no one is concerned that his consciousness might be imprisoned behind Steve watching everything, trapped, and unable to escape, etc.
If these are the heroes extolling honesty and doing the right thing, why don't they exhibit an ounce of empathy for the host?

I confess I wondered about this too. It's weird that they used that particular trope and didn't go into any of the questions it raises. I mean, it's magic either way so why didn't we just bring Steve back as Steve? It would have been exactly the same story minus the brief scene at the end between Dianna and whoever Steve replaced, poor nameless shlub.

 

[RodanAZ]

Exactly... the 'wish' rules were being made up as they went along, so there was no reason for Steve to displace anyone... he could have just appeared out of thin air and it would not have detracted in any way. IMHO, it's just another example of the careless and thoughtless writing that is so prevalent in mainstream entertainment these days.

 

[DarkKnight]

Because they are perfect metaphors for most of Hollywood. Virtuous only when it suits their vanity and not because they have true conviction. Even then, it's more often about moral grandstanding than it is the cause. Charity is great but it's best when done with humility and no attempt to draw attention to itself.

Daanng Bro! you hit the nail on the head, exactly how Im feeling but you've expressed it so much more eloquently.

Patty Jenkins should be sent to an island of women, where she can make crappy movie in a vacuum

 

[Psab keel]

Personally as far as I've seen Patty Jenkins isn't woke and she seems down to earth so the mistakes made in the writing don't come across to me as being directed at painting men in a bad light but more about needing work. Drafts are often rushed for Hollywood scripts and tentpoles in particular because there are so many working parts to get the movie made as well as strict deadlines which often can be to the detriment of the story if not handled properly. If she starts blaming poor fan reception on sexism (ala Ghostbusters 2016) then I would rethink things.

I'm all for female empowerment and having positive strong feminine role models for women to aspire to. That said, great characters transcend labels like gender, sexual preference, and race so that no matter who you are you can admire and relate to them because the package they come in isn't as important as reaching an audience's empathy. The first Wonder Woman movie did a fantastic job with that and was a really entertaining movie to boot. In fact I really should get a copy of it on bluray because I've been wanting to rewatch it. Especially after how disappointing WW84 was.

Just like everything else with movies it all boils down to writing and theme. Critical analysis by audiences will always be driven by emotion but I think it's best to try and balance it with how well that theme was presented to be able to give it a fair chance and if the characters speak to the human experience then all the better.

This was brilliant BTW:

 

[Treadwell]

Yeah, the writing, but more importantly the editing.
Sometimes over-writing is a good thing because if you make a point three times in a script, if two of those scenes are removed for other reasons, the point still gets made. The trick is, to recognize redundancies that remain late in the editing process and eliminate them. The "guys hit on women" commentary is a fair one that I'm fine with them making, it just didn't need to happen that much to get the point across.

 

[HMSwolfe]

That’s why my big complaint is the opening. The theme isn’t as hit you over the head simplistic until you have it spelled out for you in excruciatingly childish simplicity right from the get-go. Edit that part out.