Why do so many people think Star Trek: Into Darkness was bad?

[Michael Bergeron]

How come the USS Vengeance features hull components that seals up it's deflector dish? Doesn't it seem a bit redundant that the Deflector dish needs a deflector when it can already be protected by deflector shields?

For when the deflector shields are down maybe? Dunno.

Usually I watch Star Trek and expect the tech to make sense. I've learned to let that go with the new Trek. Still bugs me but doesn't kill it for me anymore.

 

[Jeyl]

My understanding is the primary deflector dish is used during warp travel to prevent collisions with small debris and the such.

Yeah, but if it's such a crucial piece of technology, why do all other ships not protect it in the same way? I just think it's silly that those who designed the Vengeance went through great lengths to protect it's deflector dish and not it's bridge area that's a lot easier to hit than the Enterprise's bridge.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Yeah, but if it's such a crucial piece of technology, why do all other ships not protect it in the same way? I just think it's silly that those who designed the Vengeance went through great lengths to protect it's deflector dish and not it's bridge area that's a lot easier to hit than the Enterprise's bridge.

That's the issue you have with the Vengeance? Not the fact that it was designed by a guy who's 300 years behind in the tech? :lol

 

[Bryancd]

Yeah, but if it's such a crucial piece of technology, why do all other ships not protect it in the same way? I just think it's silly that those who designed the Vengeance went through great lengths to protect it's deflector dish and not it's bridge area that's a lot easier to hit than the Enterprise's bridge.

NO other ship in all of Trek canon has ever had one although it would make sense for a ship designed to fight to have it. Seems like a reasonable application of technology in that case.

 

[SSgt Burton]

Unknown (Spock is stunned by Kirk on the bridge)

"Is There In Truth No Beauty?"

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x05hd/isthereintruthnobeautyhd1166.jpg


PS- The Enterprise B's deflector dish seemed to be protected by the shape of the hull.

Kevin

 

[Jeyl]

That's the issue you have with the Vengeance?

Yeah.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I'm sure they have blinds they can put down. :lol

Even with the added protection to the dish though they're about the same size of a target and the bridge has an outer ring that means you have to hit it from a certain angle.

Dumb design? Ya. Bridge should be in the centre of the ship. No window required.

 

[Bigdaddy]

:lol The last page of posts made me feel like Wesley Crusher's dumb classmate! :lol :facepalm

 

[SSgt Burton]

That's the issue you have with the Vengeance? Not the fact that it was designed by a guy who's 300 years behind in the tech? :lol

I suppose the whole point was that by the 23rd century Starfleet had become such a collection of "goody two shoes" that they were incapable of even conceiving a ship designed primarily to fight. Basically it would be like a group of staunch pacifists being asked to design a tank at a time when peace prevailed.

So Marcus enlists Khan because he lived during a period of aggression and war. While he would not be up on the tech of the time, he would understand the theory of warfare and what "any" battleship would require to fight.


To prove my point (well... sort of) look at the lateral "torpedo launchers" on the Enterprise's secondary hull (if they are in fact torpedo launchers).

So in order to fire these the Enterprise has to (I assume) be facing the target sideways. This is completely unsound as a battle tactic as it gives the enemy a broad silhouette to fire at (I believe a turning point in naval warfare occured when the first ship had "forward facing" cannons. This allowed it to fire on an enemy while at the same time provided a slimmer target for the enemy to shoot at).

So as a testament to how Starfleet has "lost its way" when it comes to warfare they actually installed torpedo launchers in a (centuries) obsolete configuration! :lol


Although... I'm not so sure the filmmakers made that connection on purpose.


Kevin

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I suppose the whole point was that by the 23rd century Starfleet had become such a collection of "goody two shoes" that they were incapable of even conceiving a ship designed primarily to fight. Basically it would be like a group of staunch pacifists being asked to design a tank at a time when peace prevailed.

Ya, I get that plot point but it just doesn't ring true to me at all. Ships are armed with weapons so it's not as if nobody specialized in thinking about combat. Especially with contact with beings like the Klingons and Romulans you'd think there would be people around who would have an idea.

Still though, that's definitely what they were going for. :thumbsup

 

[Riceball]

Yeah, but if it's such a crucial piece of technology, why do all other ships not protect it in the same way? I just think it's silly that those who designed the Vengeance went through great lengths to protect it's deflector dish and not it's bridge area that's a lot easier to hit than the Enterprise's bridge.

Probably because the Vengance was designed from the keel up as a warship using the latest technologies, techniques, and design philosophies in naval architecture. It's also possible that the bridge is already heavily shielded and/or armored but for whatever reason the same can't be done with the deflector dish hence the armor that comes out during combat. As others have pointed out, the deflector shields on a Trek starship are only navigational deflectors and are designed only to protect the starship from the micro-dust and small bits of meteors that they'd encounter while travelling, they're different from their other shields which are used in combat to protect them from weapons fire, as a Trek fan you should know better/the difference.

 

[Jeyl]

It's also possible that the bridge is already heavily shielded and/or armored but for whatever reason the same can't be done with the deflector dish hence the armor that comes out during combat.

So windows are stronger than the metallic hull? If that's the case, why not make the whole ship out of windows?

As others have pointed out, the deflector shields on a Trek starship are only navigational deflectors and are designed only to protect the starship from the micro-dust and small bits of meteors that they'd encounter while travelling, they're different from their other shields which are used in combat to protect them from weapons fire, as a Trek fan you should know better/the difference.

When I say deflector shields, I'm not talking about the "deflector array" that pushes small objects out of the ship's path when at warp. Deflector shields in Star Trek are what protects a ship from things like enemy fire. The entire ship, including the deflector array, would have to be protected by this in order for the transporters to not function, which is how it's depicted in STID. And before you go into a "They only refer to that as shields", no. They don't.

Outpost 4: "Had our deflector shield on maximum. Hit by enormous power. First attack blew our deflector shield."

Why would an outpost need a deflector array if it doesn't even go to warp, let alone move?

Sulu: "Captain, deflector shields just came on."

Kirk: This is the Captain. Condition Yellow Alert. Phaser crews stand by. Deflector shields up.

Kirk: Arm all phasers. Deflector shields up.

I don't think they're talking about deflector shields being used in a manner to deflect tiny objects in their travels here. Convinced now that as a Trekkie, I know better/the difference?

 

[Lord Boron]

None of that matters anymore because starships are now obsolete thanks to tramswarp beaming. Star Treks going to be very boring without starships.....

 

[Father]

So in order to fire these the Enterprise has to (I assume) be facing the target sideways. This is completely unsound as a battle tactic as it gives the enemy a broad silhouette to fire at (I believe a turning point in naval warfare occured when the first ship had "forward facing" cannons. This allowed it to fire on an enemy while at the same time provided a slimmer target for the enemy to shoot at)

Unless you're going up against multiple ships and being flanked. It's not like the Klingons are going to have all their ships one behind another waiting their turn at bat in a head to head fight.

If they really want to slim down their target why have this giant saucer? They're fighting in a three dimensional space. All an enemy ship has to do is elevate and point down and now they have a huge plate to lob shots at.

Maybe that's one reason why the Vengeance has that big opening in the saucer section?

 

[Mola Rob]

None of that matters anymore because starships are now obsolete thanks to tramswarp beaming. Star Treks going to be very boring without starships.....

I want to know how one equation takes into account whether or not a starship has changed course, been destroyed, slowed down, pulled over for coffee, etc or how it can tell if there are any debris in the path of the beam, or if a building has fallen down in the spot you are trying to transport to.

Imagine if there had been a landslide and John "Khan" Harrison had beamed into a rock.

"Myyyyy naaaaame is Khaaaaan. IIIII aaaaam stuuck iiiiin aaaa rooock!"

 

[laserpistol76]

This thread is growing very fast.

 

[SmilingOtter]

Silly - the Super Duper Transwarp Transporter scanned Qo'noS and found a perfect spot just before it beamed him there, using Super Duper Scanners.

So I presume that Enterprise entered the Nibiru atmosphere sometime at night to prevent anyone from seeing it. The night before, I'm guessing. Which means they could have just done the deed at night, and been back on Earth in less than half an hour (given their speed getting from Klingon space back into Earth's orbit.)

 

[Mola Rob]

Silly - the Super Duper Transwarp Transporter scanned Qo'noS and found a perfect spot just before it beamed him there, using Super Duper Scanners.

So I presume that Enterprise entered the Nibiru atmosphere sometime at night to prevent anyone from seeing it. The night before, I'm guessing. Which means they could have just done the deed at night, and been back on Earth in less than half an hour (given their speed getting from Klingon space back into Earth's orbit.)

Dammit I forgot about the Super Duper Scanners! :lol

Maybe they should have used those in the first movie so they didn't come out of warp in a debris field. :facepalm

 

[SmilingOtter]

Spock hadn't tricked Scotty into thinking he'd invented those yet.

 

[Jeyl]

So I presume that Enterprise entered the Nibiru atmosphere sometime at night to prevent anyone from seeing it. The night before, I'm guessing. Which means they could have just done the deed at night, and been back on Earth in less than half an hour (given their speed getting from Klingon space back into Earth's orbit.)

You know this whole opening is ridiculous when Wesley Crusher came up with a more practical solution to a planet destroying event involving volcanos that threatened a primitive civilization.

- - - Updated - - -

Dammit I forgot about the Super Duper Scanners! :lol

Maybe they should have used those in the first movie so they didn't come out of warp in a debris field. :facepalm

Some times they use them, some times they don't. One moment the Narada can detect a whole fleet of ships coming in lightyears away, next moment it can't even detect a ship that's entered the system for a whole freaking minute after it's arrival. And even without a debris field, they can't detect the Enterprise warping in until the moment it does.