Why do so many people think Star Trek: Into Darkness was bad?

[Michael Bergeron]

Is there anybody that liked '09 Trek but not Into Darkness? Seems like most of the comments are from people who disliked (or hated) both.

I would say that I liked both but had issues with both.

I did think the first was better though.

 

[Bryancd]

I thought both were great but like Into Darkness more. I felt the Nero character was lacking and way too much Spock Prime here is how this alternate universe works stuff. It was distracting.

 

[SmilingOtter]

Not only were Nero's motivations highly unrealistic, but when he greets Pike with "Hi Christopher. I'm Nero." there was no way I could take him seriously as a villain after that.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Well, to be fair yes Trek has been much ballyhooed for efforts to be science fact based. Whole TV specials have made hay about that and they had actual science advisors helping the writing and show production. BUT there is also a lot of chaff in that wheat and they made crap up all the time, so lets not pat the franchise on the back too much.

Which is why it's under science FICTION. No one wants a science class - but TOS bible was packed with the notes and diagrams from scientist they had spoken with about what they were planning - sure they fudged this and that from time to time, but at least their research dept tried to ground the show in something tangible. Because it put thought into it's production - The show garnered high profile fans like Steven Hawking, Bill Gates, Authur C Clark, Ray Bradbury, Harlin Ellison just to name a few.

Now - as for Khan helping to design the Vengeance - you have to remember Khan learned exceptionally fast - In Space Seed he learned all about the Enterprise while in bed.

 

[Sandman0077]

Especially since they went to great aims to point out in the real "TWOK" movie that Khan was an inexperienced tactician when it came to space combat. Since the JJ ****up only occurs after Khan was frozen and in space, nothing before that ****up should be changed. At least Napoleon probably had some experience with naval battles. It'd be more accurate to say you asked Napoleon to design fighter jets to be used in aerial combat.

Yes, but like I said, if he was a genius, then he could have read up on modern battles and tactics and learned from them, thus applying his newly gained knowledge of space craft and their capabilities to his military knowledge.

You aren't taking into consideration that in the original series he froze himself and hadn't been touched for that period of time, so he would have no modern knowledge about the modern world when he encountered the Enterprise. In the new timeline, he was found and (possibly) fed as much knowledge as he needed to understand modern technology and help build a ship. He already had a base knowledge of spacecraft, he just need to be updated with the new stuff.

 

[Apollo]

I hated the first and was disapointed but semi-liked some of the 2nd.

Dug the way the Actors were settling in but HATED the lame-arse Script

Is there anybody that liked '09 Trek but not Into Darkness? Seems like most of the comments are from people who disliked (or hated) both.

 

[Apollo]

Untill Harlan worked on the show, then the blood feud between him and The Great Bird started! :lol

The show garnered high profile fans like Steven Hawking, Bill Gates, Authur C Clark, Ray Bradbury, Harlin Ellison just to name a few.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Now - as for Khan helping to design the Vengeance - you have to remember Khan learned exceptionally fast - In Space Seed he learned all about the Enterprise while in bed.

Yes. but he didn't DESIGN the Enterprise! :lol

You aren't taking into consideration that in the original series he froze himself and hadn't been touched for that period of time, so he would have no modern knowledge about the modern world when he encountered the Enterprise. In the new timeline, he was found and (possibly) fed as much knowledge as he needed to understand modern technology and help build a ship. He already had a base knowledge of spacecraft, he just need to be updated with the new stuff.

I can accept that. Makes it a little easier to swallow. :thumbsup

 

[Riceball]

Yes, but like I said, if he was a genius, then he could have read up on modern battles and tactics and learned from them, thus applying his newly gained knowledge of space craft and their capabilities to his military knowledge.

You aren't taking into consideration that in the original series he froze himself and hadn't been touched for that period of time, so he would have no modern knowledge about the modern world when he encountered the Enterprise. In the new timeline, he was found and (possibly) fed as much knowledge as he needed to understand modern technology and help build a ship. He already had a base knowledge of spacecraft, he just need to be updated with the new stuff.

That might be true but it would still all be theoretical knowledge with no practical experience behind it to back it up. The way I see it the Vengance is the perfect warship for a war against the Klingons, theoretically. Of course that's largely the case now a days too but in the real world there's decades of practical experience to back up the theories.

 

[Jeyl]

NuSpock stumbles a bit off the transporter pad after witnessing his mother die and his entire planet being destroyed. NuSpock will scream at the top of his lungs and go on a rampage to kill Khan for the death of a friend he only knew for.... six months was it? Compare that to Picard and Riker just after Picard was abducted by the Borg.

Crusher: Will, he's alive. If we could get him back to the ship, I might be able to restore
Riker: This is our only chance to destroy them. If they get back into warp, our weapon is useless.
Shelby: We'll sabotage them again if we have to.
Riker: We can't maintain power. We don't have the time. Prepare to fire.
Shelby: At least consult with Starfleet Command. Get Admiral Hanson on subspace.
Riker: Belay that order, Lieutenant. There's no time.
Worf: Sir, we are being hailed by the Borg.
Riker: On screen.
Locutus: I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service us.
Riker: Mr. Worf, fire.

Now that's how you do a full on conflict between two friends, rather than beating us over the head with "We're the best friends because we're so complete together!" nonsense. Can you imagine if the end went a little like this?

Riker: LOCUTUUUUUUUUS!
*Beams over to the Borg Cube and has a big fist fight with Locutus.

Well, at least the fist fight would happen somewhere interesting.

 

[Capn_Jack_Savvy]

BTTF was based upon an original script, original characters, and a new concept to parallel timelines as the backbone for the plot! Not recycled characters, reversed script plots from recycled scenes, and too many shout-outs to original characters! Use the original characters, their qwerkie personalities, and come up with something new.......as was BTTF trilogy is...was....forever shall be!

 

[Sandman0077]

BTTF was based upon an original script, original characters, and a new concept to parallel timelines as the backbone for the plot! Not recycled characters, reversed script plots from recycled scenes, and too many shout-outs to original characters! Use the original characters, their qwerkie personalities, and come up with something new.......as was BTTF trilogy is...was....forever shall be!

BTTF was full of recycled scenes. Everytime he went to a different time it was the same 20 minutes of 'where am I, this looks familiar' in all three movies. As much as I love BTTF, and I mean LOVE it, I dislike how coincidental everything was for the sheer entertainment value.

 

[darthsideous]

Simple.

JJ Abrams never liked or watched Star Trek, by his own admission. He set out to reboot a series and make it his own, to do whatever he wanted and take the series in a new direction. By rebooting it, he essentially said that the entire TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager (I can live with that one) never happened and just took a big steaming dump on them. Then he made completely nonsensical decisions involving plot development and just really bad writing to invent a character "Nero" that was just not entertaining. A character that had the ability to travel in time before his planet was destroyed and used it to not stop his world from being destroyed, but to destroy other planets. Talk about pathetically huge plot holes. You could have driven the Nar'ada through it. Sideways. Well we had a character, Jim T Kirk, who went from being an educated, strong man to being a whiney loser criminal drop out who got pulled into Starfleet (talk about low standards) and then got kicked out because he was being the jerk that Abrams turned Kirk into. Then, miraculously, he somehow gets involved with Starfleet again and saves Earth. Now, at that point, you put him back in Starfleet Academy. No, because Abrams is a moron, he had the wash out Starfleet cadet instantly promoted to Captain. NO ORGANIZATION WOULD EVER WORK LIKE THAT. That's the end of the first movie. Second one, the wash out cadet who should have never been a Captain, gets demoted and sent back to the Academy. Five minutes later he's a Captain again. Really. Like 5 minutes later. I thought they learned their lesson, but in the entire organization of Starfleet, apparently no one else has any experience or skills that would have made him or her a superior choice for being Captain. All through the entire development of this second tragedy, Abrams INSISTED that this new character wasn't Khan. He swore up and down he wasn't Khan. Half way through the movie, you find out he's Khan. Abrams, who had made every effort to make Star Trek new and his own thing, just ended up stealing bits of better written and better developed movies and TV shows and just demonstrated what an intolerable hack he was. He should never, ever, again work in someone else's stuff. Let him make his own things, but don't let him touch any established series.

And then we're getting Star Wars from this guy. *sigh*

Agreed

 

[Sandman0077]

Agreed

I think even though he did take Khan from the old material, his time travel loophole shenanigans allowed him to do what he wanted with the characters. They have all been affected by the timeline shift, so technically everyone can be completely different if he wanted them to be. You guys are harping on the man for using old material and making it his own, when that's what he stated he wanted to do in the first place. You can't reboot a series and have NONE of the original characters. Then it wouldn't be a REBOOT. At least his timeloop stuff from the first film gives people SOME kind of explanation as to why things are so different.

Stop complaining and saying 'That's not how it was in the original!'. Of course its not. It's a reboot.

 

[jlee562]

BTTF was full of recycled scenes. Everytime he went to a different time it was the same 20 minutes of 'where am I, this looks familiar' in all three movies. As much as I love BTTF, and I mean LOVE it, I dislike how coincidental everything was for the sheer entertainment value.

Exactly, half the comedy in II and III is seeing how the different periods mirrored each other.

I really think that some people are looking for reasons not to like the new Trek films, rather than arriving at that conclusion from an unbiased/objective place.

 

[Sandman0077]

I really think that some people are looking for reasons not to like the new Trek films, rather than arriving at that conclusion from an unbiased/objective place.

I think people just can't separate the two enough to enjoy them separately. It's like when I watched Fullmetal Alchemist. Absolutely loved it. Then they came out with the Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood reboot. Blew me away. Same characters, same story line (for the most part), different execution, and I couldn't be happier with it. I can enjoy both series without wishing one had something of the other.

 

[BAK55]

All I would like to see is an original story about the crew doing the "...explore strange new worlds, and new civilizations" thing. And at least make the attempt to have it as something believable.

I really had enough of fans, with all the comments I had read on different sites -and here, too, about this film before it had been made was something like (sceaming little children), "Khan! KHAN!! The villian must be Khan!" And this is what was given us. A somewhat fun ride, but very disappointing after a promise of something new because canon was hampering the creativity of the writers.

The build up is starting again form all sorts of sites I have seen for the next movie with, "Klingons! We must have Klingons!"

 

[DARTH SABER]

In "City on the Edge of Forever" McCoy's actions prevent the Federation from ever forming in the "prime" universe, they aren't confined to an alternate timeline.

Same with "First Cointact" - the Borg's trip to the past results in Earth being assimilated, and the Enterprise is only protected by being caught in the sphere's wake. The suggestion is that the rest of the fleet from the battle no longer exist.

In the TNG episode "Time's Arrow" (the episode with Mark Twain) they find Data's head in the prime universe, having been left back in the 1800's.

Time travel in "Yesterday's Enterprise" changes the prime universe to prevent war with the Klingons.

Oh, but in this case, the prime universe is untouched... :unsure

Let's see, LOL -

6 Theories Of Time Travel In Star Trek

"Star Trek has played with crazy time-travel shenanigans more than any other franchise - yes, even Doctor Who. So it's no surprise there are at least half a dozen ways time travel works in Trek.

First of all, before I get hate mail/comments about the Doctor Who thing, here's what I mean. Yes that show's hero travels around in a time machine, so in a sense every episode is about time travel. And yet, most Who stories use the TARDIS to set up the story and then we're done with it. Doctor Who has done relatively few shows where time travel is fundamental to the story - "Day Of The Daleks" comes to mind, and so does "The Girl In The Fireplace" - whereas Trek has dipped into the time-travel-story well on a super regular basis.


1) Time-travel can change history - but only if you mess with someone "important." The very first Trek time-travel story is "Tomorrow Is Yesterday": the Enterprise accidentally kidnaps Air Force captain John Christopher, and he gains knowledge of the future that could change the present. (Kirk and Spock almost just remove Captain Christopher altogether, but they discover that his son heads a mission to Saturn. Christopher, himself, is totally worthless and wouldn't be missed.)

And in "City On The Edge Of Forever," a drug-crazed McCoy accidentally changes history so the Nazis win World War II, and as a result in the present, the Enterprise no longer exists. (This also seems to be the theory of time travel the new movie espouses, without getting too spoilery.) And of course, in the movie First Contact, the Borg temporarily succeed in going back and changing history, so that the 24th century Earth turns into a Borg hive — until the Enterprise goes back in time and stops them. Also in Deep Space Nine's "Past Tense," Sisko travels back to 2024 San Francisco, where he accidentally causes the death of civil-rights leader Gabriel Bell. Sisko winds up taking Bell's place, and Bell's picture in all the history books changes into Sisko's. Similarly, Sisko goes back in time to prevent a Klingon spy from assassinating Kirk in "Trials and Tribble-ations."

Also, people in alternate futures are able to go back and prevent their futures from ever "happening" in the DS9 episode "The Visitor" and the Voyager episodes "Timeless" and "End Game."


2) If you travel back in time, your mind will revert to its past state. Also in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday," the Enterprise drops off Christopher at the exact moment they originally kidnapped him, and somehow this leaves him with no memory of the intervening events. (Even though days have passed for him, he somehow loses all memory of them.) And in the episode "All Our Yesterdays," Spock travels back in time thousands of years to a barbaric ice age on another planet. And even though it's still the same Spock, he suddenly starts reverting to barbarism and acting like a crazay old-school Vulcan, with the heated desires and unbridled rage.


3) You can travel back in time, but you'll just become part of established events. In the episode "Assignment Earth," the Enterprise once again travels back to 1968 Earth, and this time Kirk and Spock try to stop the mysterious Gary Seven from launching, and detonating, a missile to stop the Cold-War arms race. Kirk and Spock nearly stop Gary Seven, but in the end, it turns out the missile blows up exactly 104 miles above Earth - just where it "always" did. So Kirk and Spock's time-traveling interference was "always" part of events. Also, in the TNG epsiode "Captain's Holiday," Picard destroys the super-magical device, the Uthat, that aliens from the future have stolen and brought back in time. And then the aliens say that Picard's decision to destroy the Uthat was already in their "historical records." Also, I'm guessing the Voyager episode "Future's End" belongs to this rule as well, because Henry Starling "invents" a whole bunch of technology that we always had in the 1990s, thanks to his exposure to 29th century tech.


4) Sometimes you have to travel in time just to make things happen the way they're "supposed" to. In the Next Generation episode "Time's Arrow," the Enterprise crew finds Data's severed head in the ground, dating back to the 19th century. As a result of this, Data goes back in time. Later, Guinan tells Picard that he needs to be part of the away team that goes back to 19th century San Francisco, because she remembers meeting Picard back then. Later, Data is decapitated, and his head winds up in the ground. Picard remarks that history is "fulfilling itelf." But at the same time, FutureGuinan won't tell Riker how to save Picard, for fear of changing history. So which is it?


5) Past, present and future are one. This seems to be the message of "All Good Things," the Next Generation finale. Picard's mind starts to "slip" from his present-day self to his "Encounter At Farpoint" self, and himself 25 years in the future. In all three eras, Picard journeys to the same point in space, where he orders a tachyon scan... which inadvertently creates a time/space anomaly that grows bigger the further back in time you go, so that billions of years in the past, it destroys the whole Alpha Quadrant. It seems as though Picard is seeing all three time periods as the same, with a unified causality, so that if he changes something in one era, it affects both other eras automatically. Ditto in "Tapestry," where Picard is able to make changes to his youthful mistakes from Starfleet Academy, and they instantly alter his life in the present. (This version is probably pretty similar to #1.)


6) If you blow up a time-travel device, all of the changes that a time-traveler has already made to history will be undone. This is the operating principle in Voyager's "Year Of Hell Part 2," where Janeway blows up the Krenim time machine and suddenly everything is returned to the way it was before the Krenim started meddling with time-travel. Also, Enterprise had a long-running storyline about the Temporal Cold War, in which four different groups from the future, including a future Federation, compete to change history. Eventually, the temporal shenanigans get crazier and crazier, with people going back and killing Lenin, and one alien engineering a timeline where the Nazis win World War II (it's always the Nazis winning World War II.) And at last, Captain Archer and his crew face Vosk, the biggest time-violator, in the alternate Nazi-dominated past, and succeed in destroying his temporal conduit. As soon as the device is destroyed, everything returns to normal.

Note: I realize there are at least a dozen or so other Star Trek episodes that involve time travel, which I haven't referenced in this article. You'll have to take my word for it that I considered all of them, and decided they fit in with one of the theories of time travel I mention here."


And lets not forget "Enterprise " - In a Mirror Darkly" WITH ITS TIME TRAVEL/Alternate reality premise.



I guess its OK for the previous 40 years of Trek to play fast and loose with time travel....but oh, in this CASE JJ must adhere to one, and only one, time travel theory. LOL

 

[DARTH SABER]

That's because within BTTF's canon it makes sense. ST *was* fairly consistent in it's time travel effects until the reboot.

Thas funny, considering the second film completely contradicted the time travel theory in the first film.

In the first film it implied that there is one and only one timeline which has in a state of being altered due to Marty's actions, causing marty to disappear .

In the second film, Doc Brown introduces the many worlds interpretation and the timeline doesnt change, but merely branches off into an alternate reality at any point that there's a change in history.

Total contradiction.

 

[Capn_Jack_Savvy]

Again...BTTF-Original script! Nu-Trek-Recycled script.

Still doesn't change my opinion. Besides comparing BTTF and ST is like comparing guava nectar to apples! Both fruit but much different.