Why do so many people think Star Trek: Into Darkness was bad?

[Michael Bergeron]

Thas funny, considering the second film completely contradicted the time travel theory in the first film.

In the first film it implied that there is one and only one timeline which has in a state of being altered due to Marty's actions, causing marty to disappear .

In the second film, Doc Brown introduces the many worlds interpretation and the timeline doesnt change, but merely branches off into an alternate reality at any point that there's a change in history.

Total contradiction.

Actually:

The Other Marty McFly

A good read.

 

[Capn_Jack_Savvy]

Personally I thought ST was great until "My name is Khan!" I would have been happy if they left the character named John Harrison and continued the storyline without Khan. The search for a terrorist that is hell bent on annihilating the human race from the planet. That would make for an excellent storyline for the new movie.

Now that the 5-year missions begins what is next in store for the crew? I guess JJ has many TOS episodes to choose from!

 

[Vivek]

Thas funny, considering the second film completely contradicted the time travel theory in the first film.

Pretty sure it didn't .

In the first film it implied that there is one and only one timeline which has in a state of being altered due to Marty's actions, causing marty to disappear .

In the second film, Doc Brown introduces the many worlds interpretation and the timeline doesnt change, but merely branches off into an alternate reality at any point that there's a change in history.

Total contradiction.

There are no multiple alternate realities and no simultaneous timelines existing in the BTTF universe. The whole skewed timeline explanations by Doc seems more likely for Marty's better understanding and for the viewer ourselves. There are no multiple timelines in the BTTF Universe. Any changes in the past, replaces the old timeline with a new history. And those changes in history will catch up to people living in the present or future slowly through the ripple effect, including for time travelers.

"Obviously the time continuum has been disrupted, creating a new temporal event sequence resulting in this alternate reality"

"We can't, because if we travel into the future from this point in time, it will be the future of THIS reality"

Any changes occuring in the BTTF Universe is under a singular reality, alternate to the original maybe but still existing in the same place instead of the original one. Eg: Once the events of BTTF 1 has occured there won't be a version of 1955 where Marty didn't play at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.

The Other Marty McFly theory by Bruce Gordon is a good read but not accurate. I and most fans don't consider that Marty II (aka Lone Pine Marty) was present in the beginning of the film. Even Bob Gale has acknowledged this in the past that there is a proper origin point where there aren't any "Other Self" of characters before any time traveling occurred.

 

[jlee562]

I absolutely reject that STID was a "recycled" script. Yes, it re-used Khan as a villain, but his motivations were completely different than TWOK.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Thas funny, considering the second film completely contradicted the time travel theory in the first film.

In the first film it implied that there is one and only one timeline which has in a state of being altered due to Marty's actions, causing marty to disappear .

Total contradiction.

Yet Marty could alter other things as long as they didn't effect his existence. He himself was living in an alternate reality once his father stood up to Biff.
Biff himself caused his own demise in 2015 - by taking the sports almanac to 1955 - Loraine ended up shooting him so there was no "Old Man Biff".

 

[Shadow345]

I absolutely reject that STID was a "recycled" script. Yes, it re-used Khan as a villain, but his motivations were completely different than TWOK.

Exactly, I have tried to bring this up before but they claimed it's still a recycling because Khan was the main focus or something.

 

[seelsa73]

I absolutely reject that STID was a "recycled" script. Yes, it re-used Khan as a villain, but his motivations were completely different than TWOK.

And any similarities between the two were intentional, as an homage to the "prime" timeline. They weren't ripping off TWOK because the writers were lazy.

 

[DARTH SABER]

sorry, BTTF 2 does completely contradicts the established rules in the first film.

the one thing that seperates the Many Worlds Interpretation from a single timeline change is that it sidesteps any and all paradoxes...such as Marty disapearing because his parents never met....because they were alternate parents from an alternate reality, not his trrue parents from his prime reality.

 

[Sandman0077]

I absolutely reject that STID was a "recycled" script. Yes, it re-used Khan as a villain, but his motivations were completely different than TWOK.

Exactly. Like I said before, a reboot doesn't mean you replace all the main characters and villians. It means you usr them and make it something new, which I feel JJ did with Khan.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I absolutely reject that STID was a "recycled" script. Yes, it re-used Khan as a villain, but his motivations were completely different than TWOK.

Exactly. Like I said before, a reboot doesn't mean you replace all the main characters and villians. It means you usr them and make it something new, which I feel JJ did with Khan.

It's definitely not a recycled TWOK (although it takes from it heavily). It's a re-imagining of Space Seed, the Khan episode of TOS. Even then it's very different for the alternate universe but Khan's motivations are the same, to revive his crew and conquer once more.

I didn't think this Khan had as much depth as the original but that's beside the point. Yes, the script borrows heavily from the prime universe, but it's disingenuous to say that it's "recycled".

 

[DARTH SABER]

Yet Marty could alter other things as long as they didn't effect his existence.

If we're to take Doc Browns explantion in BTTF 2 as fact, then that would me it's impossible for Marty to ever do anything to to effect his existence.

He himself was living in an alternate reality once his father stood up to Biff.

No, the moment he appeared in 1955 he was living in an alternate reality. The branching point for an alternate reality is created the moment a historical event (even at a quantum level) occurs.

Example -

Before Marty went back in time, he NEVER arrived at Peabody farm on the night of November 5, 1955.

After Marty went back in time, he DID arrive at the Peabody farm on the night of november5 1955.

It is impossible for two different events to occur at the same time and place. This is a disruption of history...This would be the branching point of the alternate reality.

Biff himself caused his own demise in 2015 - by taking the sports almanac to 1955 - Loraine ended up shooting him so there was no "Old Man Biff".

No, Biff caused the demise of his alternate self in an alternate reality...So, while there was no "Old Man" biff in the particular reality, Old Man biff would exist in some other reality.

THis is the contradiction in BTTF. In the original film it suggests Marty inadvertently effected the meeting between his parents. As the moment where marty's parents were supposed to kiss started slipping away we see marty disappearing from existence. Had this been a time travel story where alternate realities were employed, then Marty would not disappear because these are not his parents from the prime reality, but alternate parents from an alternate reality which was created the moment he appeared in 1955.

 

[Bigdaddy]

:lol I thought this was a Star Trek thread :lol

 

[AJK001]

:lol I thought this was a Star Trek thread :lol

It is, that is why we are discussing BTTF.:lol[/QUOTE

 

[rodneyfaile]

You built a starship, out of a Delorean?

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Cap'n! I canna get the warp engines back online without 1.21 gigawats of power! :lol

 

[Robinson]

Dr. Brown: great scott!!!





Scotty: awe thank ye.

 

[ScratchinJack]

Simple.

JJ Abrams never liked or watched Star Trek, by his own admission. He set out to reboot a series and make it his own, to do whatever he wanted and take the series in a new direction. By rebooting it, he essentially said that the entire TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager (I can live with that one) never happened and just took a big steaming dump on them. Then he made completely nonsensical decisions involving plot development and just really bad writing to invent a character "Nero" that was just not entertaining. A character that had the ability to travel in time before his planet was destroyed and used it to not stop his world from being destroyed, but to destroy other planets. Talk about pathetically huge plot holes. You could have driven the Nar'ada through it. Sideways. Well we had a character, Jim T Kirk, who went from being an educated, strong man to being a whiney loser criminal drop out who got pulled into Starfleet (talk about low standards) and then got kicked out because he was being the jerk that Abrams turned Kirk into. Then, miraculously, he somehow gets involved with Starfleet again and saves Earth. Now, at that point, you put him back in Starfleet Academy. No, because Abrams is a moron, he had the wash out Starfleet cadet instantly promoted to Captain. NO ORGANIZATION WOULD EVER WORK LIKE THAT. That's the end of the first movie. Second one, the wash out cadet who should have never been a Captain, gets demoted and sent back to the Academy. Five minutes later he's a Captain again. Really. Like 5 minutes later. I thought they learned their lesson, but in the entire organization of Starfleet, apparently no one else has any experience or skills that would have made him or her a superior choice for being Captain. All through the entire development of this second tragedy, Abrams INSISTED that this new character wasn't Khan. He swore up and down he wasn't Khan. Half way through the movie, you find out he's Khan. Abrams, who had made every effort to make Star Trek new and his own thing, just ended up stealing bits of better written and better developed movies and TV shows and just demonstrated what an intolerable hack he was. He should never, ever, again work in someone else's stuff. Let him make his own things, but don't let him touch any established series.

And then we're getting Star Wars from this guy. *sigh*

Michael Burgeron is right.

 

[rodneyfaile]

All of that is true, but at least at the end of those two movies, the five-year-mission is beginning with an excellent cast, so you could move on from everything that is mentioned above and have a really great movie. He did leave it in a good spot.

Also, when the time comes, couldn't someone just prevent what happed with Nero from taking place, and therefore restore the correct timeline. The JJ Trek would just exist as a parallel universe? I don't know, it's still early and I haven't had enough caffeine to do any Stephen Hawking type thinking.

 

[Jeyl]

All of that is true, but at least at the end of those two movies, the five-year-mission is beginning with an excellent cast, so you could move on from everything that is mentioned above and have a really great movie. He did leave it in a good spot.

Wasn't that the same exact spot that JJ left Star Trek in the last movie? Kirk has earned the command of the Enterprise, the crew are all together and the Enterprise sets out into the depths of space complete with the "Space, the final frontier" voice over. Next movie, we're back on Earth again for a good 40% of the film. And it gets better. I read the "After Darkness" sequel comic that picks up where the film left off, and despite the film ending on the Enterprise beginning it's five-year mission where the crew are going to spend a lot of time in "deep uncharted space", this comic puts them back on Earth again.

Until we know what the next movie or major JJVerse thing will be in Star Trek, this promise of the Enterprise going on it's five year mission is just an empty promise that in some ways has already been broken.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Wasn't that the same exact spot that JJ left Star Trek in the last movie? Kirk has earned the command of the Enterprise, the crew are all together and the Enterprise sets out into the depths of space complete with the "Space, the final frontier" voice over. Next movie, we're back on Earth again for a good 40% of the film. And it gets better. I read the "After Darkness" sequel comic that picks up where the film left off, and despite the film ending on the Enterprise beginning it's five-year mission where the crew are going to spend a lot of time in "deep uncharted space", this comic puts them back on Earth again.

Until we know what the next movie or major JJVerse thing will be in Star Trek, this promise of the Enterprise going on it's five year mission is just an empty promise that in some ways has already been broken.

With the reboot, it was only natural to be looking around every corner for Khan to pop up. Now that he is out of the way, and the five year mission is officially beginning, it's time to leave Earth in the rear view mirror and really get to know this new cast.

I think JJ left Star Trek in a really good spot. He will probably have his hands full with Star Wars. I think another director will step in on the next one. Maybe Brad Bird or Matt Reeves.