TOTALLY agree with this. Sometimes the best dialogue is of the unwritten variety. LOTR suffers from this as well.
Who is darth Vader to YOU? Jones, Prowse, Christensen?
- Thread starter Funky
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TOTALLY agree with this. Sometimes the best dialogue is of the unwritten variety. LOTR suffers from this as well.
OldKen
Master Member
I disagree... When Hayden was in the suit it didn't feel like Vader... (if you take my meaning?)
Prowses movements, his head turn, his walk his everything helped a lot in all of his scenes. While he was replaced in ESB and ROTJ for most of the fights etc. I still think Prowse added to the character in every other scene he was in.
To me it's always been a combo. Prowse AND JEJ! :thumbsup TOGETHER they made the character alive. IMHO.
Probe Droid
Master Member
Nailed it. You know you're in trouble when a cartoon version of the same character is far better than the live actor who originated it.
If it counts for anything my three year old is convinced that I'm Darth Vader. :lol
I've got a Vader costume and ever since he first saw me in it he'll point at every Vader pic and say "Daddy Vader!"
I've got a Vader costume and ever since he first saw me in it he'll point at every Vader pic and say "Daddy Vader!"
NAZGÛL
Sr Member
Prowse is moving like a stringed puppet in the original film, looking back and forth, pointing at everything. Were so used to it we dont think of it. I guess its a "Faster, more intense" direction by Lucas.
For some reason Prowses over the top body language works, but for me its only because of Jones fantastic performance, giving the character that menacing vibe.
For some reason Prowses over the top body language works, but for me its only because of Jones fantastic performance, giving the character that menacing vibe.
For the comments about the younger generation, Ithought I'd share my experience.
My son is 18 & my daughter is 16. They both grew up watching the various versions of the OT as they were released & loved them all. Without my 35+ years of baggage about how "special" the original OT was, they actually saw each "new" release as an improvement. When the PT was being prepped I explained how it was going to tell the story of Anakin & how he became Vader, so THAT'S what they focused on in each of the PT films & additional viewings of the OT.
Needless to say, they loved them all as a complete story, but it wasn't until the new ending of ROTJ was released that it really hit home. When Hayden appeared beside Yoda & Ben at the end, I was ready to make some snarky comment about "Who does that punk think he is?". Well, I look over & both kids are bawling their eyes out. I asked what was wrong & they both start talking about how it made the whole thing perfect. How so? They explained to me how Anakin was deceived & physically & mentally manipulated to become the pawn of a selfish, power-hungry "mentor" that was only out for himself. OK...I got that part, but why are you crying? "Because he's free. Luke freed him & now he's back whole again like he was before, No more physical & mental scars of what happened to him"....Oh...
My son then goes on to explain how Anakin was the greatest fighter in the PT, but acted like he could hardly move in comparison in the OT. He was too far gone in the OT, but now he's like he was meant to be, & that's why the new ending makes all 6 perfect. For some reason, at that moment, the whole thing clicked.
From that moment on, I will not bash the PT in front of them. Not saying anyone elses opinion is right or wrong, but I just wanted to share my family's experience of who is Vader.
My son is 18 & my daughter is 16. They both grew up watching the various versions of the OT as they were released & loved them all. Without my 35+ years of baggage about how "special" the original OT was, they actually saw each "new" release as an improvement. When the PT was being prepped I explained how it was going to tell the story of Anakin & how he became Vader, so THAT'S what they focused on in each of the PT films & additional viewings of the OT.
Needless to say, they loved them all as a complete story, but it wasn't until the new ending of ROTJ was released that it really hit home. When Hayden appeared beside Yoda & Ben at the end, I was ready to make some snarky comment about "Who does that punk think he is?". Well, I look over & both kids are bawling their eyes out. I asked what was wrong & they both start talking about how it made the whole thing perfect. How so? They explained to me how Anakin was deceived & physically & mentally manipulated to become the pawn of a selfish, power-hungry "mentor" that was only out for himself. OK...I got that part, but why are you crying? "Because he's free. Luke freed him & now he's back whole again like he was before, No more physical & mental scars of what happened to him"....Oh...
My son then goes on to explain how Anakin was the greatest fighter in the PT, but acted like he could hardly move in comparison in the OT. He was too far gone in the OT, but now he's like he was meant to be, & that's why the new ending makes all 6 perfect. For some reason, at that moment, the whole thing clicked.
From that moment on, I will not bash the PT in front of them. Not saying anyone elses opinion is right or wrong, but I just wanted to share my family's experience of who is Vader.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Anakin in the prequels is a mass murderer of women and children and innocents, even BEFORE Palpatine really gets his claws into him with that laughable ruse that he can stop people from dying because of the dark side of the Force. Not the kind of guy I want to be forced to care about, as he's just a selfish excuse of a person throughout and having Hayden show up at the end is even more insulting as it justifies and reinforces that there's salvation even for the worst selfish, whining mass murderer in the galaxy just because he flung the emperor to his death after serving him mindlessly for decades. What you get away from the prequels is that you can murder as many women and children and innocents as you like, as long as you don't get caught and then you get redemption because your son sees "good" in you. YUCK.
But to get back to Prowse in the suit. I equal his performance in the suit to that of Kevin Peter Hall in the Predator suit. They ARE the character - others in the suit are just emulating the character and usually failing and that's why there won't be a good Vader without David Prowse or a good Predator without Kevin Peter Hall.
But to get back to Prowse in the suit. I equal his performance in the suit to that of Kevin Peter Hall in the Predator suit. They ARE the character - others in the suit are just emulating the character and usually failing and that's why there won't be a good Vader without David Prowse or a good Predator without Kevin Peter Hall.
You pretty much said what I thought, okay who is R2 D2 to You the Bleeps or Kenny Baker? Lol.
Hobo Wan Kenobi
Sr Member
Prowes and Jones
Anakin in the prequels didn't change a thing about the character. He's the same guy that killed a ship-full of Alderaanians except for the princess in the 1st 10 minutes of ANH. It's just that now we know the depths of his fall. Same guy folks on here dress as, with no qualms, & I've heard noone complain about Shaw showing up in ROTJ to show Anakin's redemption.
I was only sharing my experience of how 2 kids viewed the Vader saga as a whole. I wasn't trying to lift one portrayal above another, but come on. Take the blinders off & realise it's the same character.
I was only sharing my experience of how 2 kids viewed the Vader saga as a whole. I wasn't trying to lift one portrayal above another, but come on. Take the blinders off & realise it's the same character.
'Cause he was the guy we saw in the helmet 5-10 minutes before that scene.
Yes it's the same character. This thread though is about how people perceive that character being portrayed. The Anakin that slaughtered the Sand People is most certainly not the same character that ransacked the rebel ship or killed subordinates.
I view Vader much the same as Obi Wan did. There are two different people, Anakin the Jedi and Darth Vader the Sith Lord.
Fixed the title of the movie for ya.
As far as we can tell he only killed the captain. We saw Stormtroopers taking prisoners so there's nothing to say that they were slaughtered. (not saying that he wouldn't but it's not even hinted at in the film. He actually specifies that he "wants them alive".)
Fixed the title of the movie for ya.
As far as we can tell he only killed the captain. We saw Stormtroopers taking prisoners so there's nothing to say that they were slaughtered. (not saying that he wouldn't but it's not even hinted at in the film. He actually specifies that he "wants them alive".)
Ok...I'm not going to hijack, so this'll be my last comment on the subject & then I'm out.:thumbsup
I was only sharing that to my kids, they see Vader as he was meant to be seen by the maker. As a character. They were taking what they saw on screen as all parts of Vader. He was a scared whiny child that grew to a scared whiny teen. When people in authority started to put limits on him, despite his talent, he went to the one person that would feed his ego. When he was unable to get his way he lashed out & people died. He was a person that they saw as an innocent that made horrible choices & bought into his own hype, but at the end, he did the only thing he could do to even BEGIN to show a different man. He sacrificed himself. At the end of ROTJ (is this name OK?), the target of his biggest betrayal appeared with him in a sign that to Ben at least, he was forgiven.
It didn't matter to them the particulars of all the BTS stuff that we obsess over. They enjoyed the arc of Vader That's all.
Now as far as the slaughter of the crew of the Tantive IV, He instructed an officer to report that all aboard were killed. I my view, they were killed off screen & the report was sent to cover the fact they had taken Leia as a prisoner for interrogation. She was the only one they were interested in, as shown when he killed Antilles. Either way, no matter what happened off screen, he killed an unarmed POW in cold blood. Same ******* as the PT.
Yes. The reason ANH isn't is because it wasn't released as ANH, it was released as "Star Wars".
Wow...I didn't realize that sounded as snarky as it does when I typed it OB (my quote, not yours). I was enjoying the discussion & hope my asking about the title didn't come off as insulting. If I did, I am sorry.:facepalm
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