Who is darth Vader to YOU? Jones, Prowse, Christensen?

Don't get me wrong, I liked Hayden. You got a look at Vader when he was still a young adult, and you were able to see how he became Vader. Most people I think they don't like him because of the voice after he's in the suit, but you still have to think of course his voice is going to change as he became older. There might be other reasons why people don't like that version, but to me I think that's why people don't like that version of Vader.
No. Obi-Wan very clearly describes Anakin throughout the OT to Luke. There is just NOTHING of that in the Anakin shown in the PT. Nothing. Nada. You don't see the fall of a great man and a great friend. You see the fall of a selfish, whiny, mass-murdering brat, who doesn't deserve any redemption.
 
Darth Vader is iconic. He is more than just one actor, He is the ultimate villain.

What do I think of when I first think of Vader?

The helmet.

If I HAD to boil it down to one person who is Darth Vader, I guess it would have to be Ralph McQuarrie then.
 
No. Obi-Wan very clearly describes Anakin throughout the OT to Luke. There is just NOTHING of that in the Anakin shown in the PT. Nothing. Nada. You don't see the fall of a great man and a great friend. You see the fall of a selfish, whiny, mass-murdering brat, who doesn't deserve any redemption.

Which would mean that Obi-Wan was blowing smoke so Luke thought good of his father OR the more likely reason is terrible writing in the prequels that ignore the originals lol.
 
Which would mean that Obi-Wan was blowing smoke so Luke thought good of his father OR the more likely reason is terrible writing in the prequels that ignore the originals lol.

Definitely the latter. You can see when Obi-Wan thinks back that Anakin was someone he loved and respected as a brother.
 
Which would mean that Obi-Wan was blowing smoke so Luke thought good of his father OR the more likely reason is terrible writing in the prequels that ignore the originals lol.

In episode 7, Obi Wan's ghost confesses to Anakins ghost that he knocked up Padme.
In episode 8, Yoda's ghost admits he hooked up with Shmi.
After all those "certain points of view" Anakin goes back to being ghost Vader in episode 9.

Lol
 
""I absolutely agree. I have more arguments for Shaw:

Luke is the only one in the party seeing the ghosts. The images are in his mind and it would not make sense for him to see an incarnation of Anakin Skywalker that he had not seen before.

Shaw is also successfully projecting the image of being a proud father. That is something that Christensen did not do, and with his youth would not be able to do. Instead, Christensen looked embarrassed to even be there. It is as if he did not agree with Lucas for putting him in the new revision...[/QUOTE]""



Those are great points. I never really thought of it that way.

As far as the Vader question, JEJ all the way. Especially after seeing the footage without his voice over. Maybe the OT Vader is so awesome it takes three people to play him! :lol
 
Even if Luke wasn't the only person seeing them he wouldn't recognize a young Anakin anyway. In the SE Luke should have a confused look on his face. :lol
 
I agree that it should have remained Shaws ghost. He referred to Luke as "my son" before his death and appeared as a more noble character than Hayden ever portrayed. The brief story that Obi Wan references about Anakins history to Luke is far superior to witnessing the Anakin of the prequels. As for the notion that it would have been more accurate to depict Shaw with the scars that his body had at the time if his death, that is retarded.

"Luminous beings are we - not this crude matter" - Yoda.

Shaw's ghost depicted a recognizable entity to Luke that he had just encountered face to face, as a broken and scarred man. The image of his ghost, now made whole, was akin to the rebirth of the man.

To say that he forever ceased to be Anakin after the battle on Mustafar would ignore the redemption that we witness at the end of ROTJ entirely and the fact that "ANAKIN", not Vader, brings balance to the force by ending the imperial tyranny that no other individual was able to defeat.

If for some reason an audience wants to see the characters younger for no logical reason whatsoever, then toss Ewans image in there over Alec's and a younger CG Yoda along with them. But if that's what Luke sees, I agree that a bewildered look should come from Luke as if to say, "who are these guys?"

Saying that the Shaw ghost was a flawed choice means that all of us that knew exactly what it meant for the two decades preceding the prequels were just crazy and the scene has always been broken and George has now fixed it.

Not that I would prefer this, but - At the very most - to tie the two trilogies together - I would have shown all three ghosts appear in their older forms, all perfectly recognizable to Luke. Shaw can give his proud fatherly expression and Luke can smile in return. Then the three ghosts slowly begin to morph into their younger selves, in the forms familiar to the audience that Luke has never witnessed for himself. He then gets to behold all three masters of the force in their prime. Alec becoming Ewan, Yoda becoming a little younger, and Anakin returning to an image of youth. If the footage existed, the shot could return to Luke staring at the changing spirit images in reverence of their history. It would be like his glimpse into their past but each one equally depicted by their transformation.

Anakin didn't die until he fulfilled the prophecy. A part of him remained Anakin unless you want to tell me that Vader returned balance to the force.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
 
Force ghosts are pretty common in the EU stories, if one cares about the EU. Ive never heard of the form being decided by who sees it.

I like the theory though, its close to the cave scene, when Luke "meets" Vader on Dagobah.
 
Because 90% of the EU stuff isn't canon I don't believe. Still though, it reinforces the argument so I'm good with it. :)
 
What say you? Could Star Wars have the same impact if they had to replace Prowse or Jones before production?

To see other actors do Vader you can check out the game Rebel Assault 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7WaFc6DISE

Vader appears in the clip after 3 minutes. I dont think they nailed him, not the voice anyway.

Some force choking action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Y5KMGbu-qZ8

Gives a clue to how it could have been in the film anyway.


(Im pretty sure the man in the suit is a member here btw.)
 
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I think what he's referring to is if that performance and voice NEVER appeared on screen would Vader have been the same. I say no. There's magic there.
 
Agreed about the magic. Thought it was interesting to see what it looks and sounds like with other actors.
 
As a costumes person, I vote for none of the above. Ralph McQuarrie, the character designer has my vote. Without him, all of Star Wars would probably have looked really different. He created some of the most iconic costumes and creatures in pop culture.

That's interesting, I would like to see that. What scene(s) is he in in A Clockwork Orange?

Prowse played 'Julian', the bodyguard who lives with the man whose wife gets raped by the gang. I think they paralyze the man and Alex later meets him and his bodyguard. I don't think he ever actually spoke.
 
As a costumes person, I vote for none of the above. Ralph McQuarrie, the character designer has my vote. Without him, all of Star Wars would probably have looked really different. He created some of the most iconic costumes and creatures in pop culture.

Don't forget Brian Muir! There was a lot of interpretation there.
 
Agreed. The McQuarrie concept changed drastically from concept to prototype in the sculpting phase at the hand of Brian Muir. They each had a significant role to play in the visual creation of the character. The performance by JEJ and Prowse were both significant aspects of the execution, without a doubt. All of these aspects contributed. It is remotely possible that Vader could have been just as menacing if one of these people were replaced, but it just wouldn't be the character as we know it and enjoy it. Perhaps that is why Anakin was such a hard pill for many fans to swallow, given the lack of aesthetic connection that Hayden had to the Vader persona. He didn't speak or move like him at all, thus the disconnect (at least for me).

When I try to imagine Vader saying just about any of Hayden's dialogue, I cringe. I personally think that Hayden evolved to become Chad Vader and Darth Vader was someone else entirely. :p
 
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