what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader quit

[JBLAKE]

Just finished watching Jedi Again. Have a few questions for those who may know the actual answers.

In the Space battle over Endor what was the purpose of so many Rebel Transports? Seems they would be useless in a Space Battle. Why were they not landed on Endor deploying troops to help the rest of the Rebels and Ewoks?

Also have to ask why does it seem Vader quits/gives up to his son in the ROTJ Climactic Lightsaber Battle. I know Luke was somewhat besting him but by no means did it look like Vader had to go down to his knees?

Just curious what answers there may be if any.


Discuss........

 

[Treadwell]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

The transports make absolutely no sense. I think it's just they had the model, and they needed variety on the screen.

Vader didn't give up. He was whooped.

 

[Lord Boron]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Made about as much sense as bringing the medical frigate into the thick of battle. But they had to fill the screen with something. Best not to look for logic in these sort of things. I'll just assume it was an all or nothing battle, so the Rebels threw anything that could fly at the Death Star.

 

[gizmo]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Rebel transports just filled the screen and looked cool. Silly but that's movies.

As for Vader is see it this way. Vader has passed his prime,the Emperor knew this and wanted Luke to replace him. Luke had grown very strong in the force and the Emperor also knew that. Luke was a different kind of Jedi though. He used his hate to overpower Vader and then to the Emperors supprise rejected the dark side. Vader wasn't ready for what Luke unleashed on him and was whooped. Also Vader may have started to already sway towards Luke's notions of there still being good in him. Lots of conflicting emotions and beliefs between those 3 in those last moments.

Another theory could argue that it was all the plan of Vader and the Emperor to make Luke draw from his hate and Vader seeing him finally unleash his hate lets Luke win in the hope that Luke indeed does join the Emperor by his side replacing him. Vader may have wanted that but neither expected Luke to then reject the dark side.

Ben

 

[SmilingOtter]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Were I Admiral Ackbar, I'd have turned the transports into flying bombs - nothing but engines, explosives, and really good shields. Fly them by remote or droid right into the Death Star and Star Destroyers.

 

[dascoyne]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Because ROTJ, more than any other SW film, is simply a merchandising machine with absolutely no interest in logic, character, story or continuity.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Re: the transports:

Might've been there to move troops to assist the Ewoks. More likely, they were just there for whatever additional firepower the Rebels could muster. Presumably they had some kind of light armament, so if you massed enough of them and put them in the right formation, they might make a halfway decent antifighter group. Alternatively, you use them as fireships and remote pilot them as flying bombs. Or, you use them to draw fire away from the rest of the more serious ships.

I mean, in the script, I think they treated the Nebulon-B as a "medical frigate" when the Death Star starts blowing up ships, but that bit was cut from the film or never shot at all. Never mind that the Nebulon-B could've been more than just a medical frigate, and might've actually made a decent warship.


But in real life, the answer is probably "We have the models, and need to fill the screen."


Re: Vader

The theory has, for a long time, been that both Vader and the Emperor wanted Luke to turn...but wanted Luke to turn to help each of them overthrow the other. So, Vader's plan is to fight, bring out Luke's dark side, and then both turn on the Emperor. The Emperor's plan is to have them fight, bring out Luke's dark side, and then dispatch Vader and upgrade to a younger model apprentice with more factory original parts. Instead, Luke beats Vader, ALMOST turns, but doesn't, and then manages to turn Vader to help him overthrow the Emperor.

 

[Riceball]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Re the Nebulon B, how do we know that the Nebulon B in Jedi is the same medical frigate that we saw at the end of Empire, who's to say that the Rebels don't have more than one. And it's not like the medical frigate was painted white with red crosses on the sides of its hull or anything, it was grey like most every other ship in Star Wars, so there's nothing to distinguish it from any other Nebulon B.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Re the Nebulon B, how do we know that the Nebulon B in Jedi is the same medical frigate that we saw at the end of Empire, who's to say that the Rebels don't have more than one. And it's not like the medical frigate was painted white with red crosses on the sides of its hull or anything, it was grey like most every other ship in Star Wars, so there's nothing to distinguish it from any other Nebulon B.

The reference to it being a medical frigate appears in the Marvel Comics adaptation of the film, which suggests that the reference was in at least some draft of the script. My point is more that, like you said, it's just...a frigate. There's no reason to assume that such ships are only ever medical frigates, merely because the first one seen in any of the films happens to be one. Like, you could have an X-wing configured for reconnaissance duties. Just because you see it used in one way during the films doesn't mean that is the only use it can possibly have.

 

[SofaKing01]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

The only way I can explain it... that's how it was written in the script.

 

[Treadwell]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

I, too, never thought of the ship class, or even the specific ship in ESB, as a medical frigate. I figured it was a warship with a good sick bay.

However, it is referred to that way in ROTJ, in throwaway battle blather by Wedge when they're chasing a TIE.

 

[astroboy]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

One of the problems that I have with Jedi is that it looked significantly worse than the first two. It looked way cheaper. A few too many matte paintings, and not enough sets.

As well directed and choreographed as that final space battle was, they needed far more rebel models. That whole scene is full of blockade runners, medical ships and transports. It made no sense. Other than the Mon calimari capital ships, there was no reason for those other ships to be there.What are Medical ships going to do in the middle of a space battle?

 

[SmilingOtter]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Well, they didn't expect the DS to be functional, and probably didn't expect such a large Imperial fleet for a welcoming party. They may have anticipated having to mop up the Imperial forces on the ground, chase down escaping ships, etc...

 

[astroboy]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Well, they didn't expect the DS to be functional, and probably didn't expect such a large Imperial fleet for a welcoming party. They may have anticipated having to mop up the Imperial forces on the ground, chase down escaping ships, etc...

Right. Wasn't there a diversion behind Sullist?

 

[Solo4114]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

One of the problems that I have with Jedi is that it looked significantly worse than the first two. It looked way cheaper. A few too many matte paintings, and not enough sets.

As well directed and choreographed as that final space battle was, they needed far more rebel models. That whole scene is full of blockade runners, medical ships and transports. It made no sense. Other than the Mon calimari capital ships, there was no reason for those other ships to be there.What are Medical ships going to do in the middle of a space battle?

I just kinda addressed this. The point being...they aren't medical ships. They're lighter- or medium-class warships, and we only refer to them as "medical frigates" because (A) Lando does once, and (B) in ESB, the ship Luke gets fixed up on is one of those ships. But really, there's no reason to assume that just because the ship is shaped like that, it must be a medical frigate.

While none of this is canon, the X-wing and Tie Fighter games make it perfectly clear that the Nebulon-B (the name for the "medical frigate") is primarily a warship. In fact, I know of only one mission in which it's explicitly referenced as a medical frigate, and that's for purposes of that mission alone. Wait. Actually, in one of the expansion packs they might've used it as one again. The rest of the time, every time a Nebulon-B appears, it's just a frigate (and a decently powerful one at that). Likewise, the "blockade runners" are just corvettes. They're faster moving light capital ships with two turbolasers on 'em, and a generally excellent field of fire (unless you fly RIGHT behind them). The medium transports, as I recall, don't have weapons, but in other games they're listed as, I think, having light lasers. Other transports, though, have lasers in the games.

Basically, they used these models because they had them, but there's no reason to assume that the Rebels' main battle fleet is made up of a few heavy capital ships, a ton of fighters, and a bunch of U-hauls and ambulances.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

The line is Wedge's, actually, and it's in the film. Lord knows I heard it enough times going through the space battle shot-by-shot and frame-by-frame to track and catalogue the Rebel fighters.

After he and one of his wingmen take out a TIE Interceptor, Wedge comments "They're heading for the medical frigate." Note the singular. I always took that to mean, over the years, that out of the various Nebulon-B's there, that one was the medical frigate (and likely the one we saw at the end of ESB), and even though the TIEs were focusing on that one probably by accident, the Rebel fighters had to keep 'em off because that was probably their least-expendable Nebulon-B.

--Jonah

 

[Treadwell]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

^or the only medical frigate in the vicinity.

 

[batguy]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Rebel troop carriers & medical ships in the Endor battle = middle-eastern insurgents attacking a base driving old minivans & delivery trucks.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

Were I Admiral Ackbar, I'd have turned the transports into flying bombs - nothing but engines, explosives, and really good shields. Fly them by remote or droid right into the Death Star and Star Destroyers.

That's what the EU said they were. Nothing else makes sense.

I think the EU and the X-Wing/TIE games killed the Medical/Escort Frigate's abilities. Yes Wedge does say "They're going for the Medical Frigate.", but maybe there are multiple versions of that class because in another scene they show one of these ships exchanging broadsides with a Star Destroyer. They have to be much more heavily armed and or shielded to be crazy enough to do that. Like the transports, it wouldn't make sense to do that with your hospital ship! It would be at the far outer edge of the battle.

 

[d_jedi1]

Re: what's the point of multiple rebel transports in the battle of Endor? Did vader q

As far as Vader getting whupped, I seem to remember a line in the book about him hitting his head (helmet) HARD when Luke lunges at him.
Ever tried to fight someone after you bang your head really freakin hard on something?
Even if that didn't happen, up til Vader makes mention of Leia, Luke's fighting is restrained. Vader doesn't really want to seriously injure his son so when Luke goes ape... Vader is in no way prepared.