VIDEO: Which ROTJ is this/really screen used?
- Thread starter blewis17
- Start date
Well...That is definitely a legit prop. Everything is in the right place. The weathering on the grenade looks pretty familiar as well. It is interesting the windvane is clean except the neck which still has paint on it. Could it have been protected by tape at one time? I've had a theory for a long time that i've kept to myself and won't unravel it here. Thanks for putting this video up.
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some quick screen caps...i'm sure there will be some clearer ones coming...lol
I've not watched the clip fully but anything that's ever cropped up on Pawn Stars is dubious at best of times. The DL44 was purported screen used but as far as anyone can tell, only the scope came from the real prop.
This is rusted on the bottom, and as far as anything that exists currently, all the 'hero' hilts ever produced for Luke were in aluminium and lathed completely from stock. The whole hilt would be one static piece of a singular material. The control box is resin and looks to have been molded off of the "hero" rails version from the deleted cave scene; the button and triangles on the side look convincing enough to have come from the "hero" box (though I admit, I'm not well versed on the specifics of the Luke Hero). Though, I can't account for the rust(?) on the pommel end and I openly admit we don't know how many of these Yuma stunts were made. The hilt he's holding, the "Hero" stems from the Yuma stunts and this has the details of the Yuma/Hero hilts, and those were all produced in the States for the Jabba Barge sequence.
Without anything to support its provenance, and the fact that we certainly don't know how many of what was made for RotJ, I can't really say whether this is a legit prop or not.
This is rusted on the bottom, and as far as anything that exists currently, all the 'hero' hilts ever produced for Luke were in aluminium and lathed completely from stock. The whole hilt would be one static piece of a singular material. The control box is resin and looks to have been molded off of the "hero" rails version from the deleted cave scene; the button and triangles on the side look convincing enough to have come from the "hero" box (though I admit, I'm not well versed on the specifics of the Luke Hero). Though, I can't account for the rust(?) on the pommel end and I openly admit we don't know how many of these Yuma stunts were made. The hilt he's holding, the "Hero" stems from the Yuma stunts and this has the details of the Yuma/Hero hilts, and those were all produced in the States for the Jabba Barge sequence.
Without anything to support its provenance, and the fact that we certainly don't know how many of what was made for RotJ, I can't really say whether this is a legit prop or not.
I haven’t watched the clip but it’s possible that isn’t rust but instead something thick/sticky that leaked on it while in storage.
Also, mercury/mercury vapor will rust aluminum. Also also, chlorine will rust stainless steel.
Also, mercury/mercury vapor will rust aluminum. Also also, chlorine will rust stainless steel.
Correct, the thought occurred to me as well. I think Lucas and Kurtz were "done" before filming on ROTJ had even started.
And there are many who are convinced they own an actual piece from the OT, because of their connection to those who worked on the films. It's not that they are lying, they are just mistaken.
But, weirder things have happened. Like the Death Star model being left in storage unit, winding up in an antique shop in Missouri, and being sold to a country and western show where it sat in the lobby and was eventually used as a trash can. And when Lucasfilm was contacted about the model, the representative said that all Death Star shots were matte paintings.
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When you do watch the clip, he also claims to have a handwritten script for ANH by George Lucas himself and that he is going to start a museum with these things. I doubt very much he would allow this to air making such a bold claim by invoking big George's name and they show his handwriting and "written by George Lucas" for the camera to see, if it wasn't true, so there is some provenance there. I would think this would be quickly debunked if it wasn't legit and lawsuits would ensue. Everything shown in the video is thereby linking George to it all in a very direct way, and this guy(Jason/Best friend of Kurtz)would be risking his "museum" and reputation by propagating known falsehoods...that would be utterly foolish just to get your face on Pawn Stars for that reason.
Props from ANH and ESB were used in ROTJ. I don't think it matters at all if Kurtz and Lucas were done prior to filming ROTJ. Again, to me this sounds legit. We'd have to assume Kurtz was mistaken and Jason took Kurtz mistaken word for it...doesn't jive for me. Possible but highly unlikely. Like Poopapapapalps said about the Yuma/Hero:
This is wisdom!!...He's right! We don't know how many and we equally have to not rule out the fact that just because it was filmed in a certain location doesn't mean that a hilt was impossible to be or not be there, especially if there were multiples. The "rust" look of the pommel looks like a perfect Yuma neck match to me...a little transparent in spots and there are definite aluminum colored lines within the color itself, like the Yuma neck so i'm pretty sure that's paint.
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At the same token, it must be admitted that he could also be mistaken about a number of these items, too, as blewis17 mentions. That script draft might be the real deal with some of his pieces from Kurtz's collection, and others sourced elsewhere.
The hilt in question here looks to have very similar dimensions and details to the Yuma/Hero; it may trace its lineage back, we don't know. We can infer a few things based on what's here. The box itself being a cast from the Hero box, specifically the deleted cave sequence with the sliding rails for the clamp card, implies that addition to this hilt and the paint scheme was added after the fact to make it resemble the decided Hero hilt's final finish. So whatever this was, be it a used/unused Yuma stunt, it was made to look like the proper Hero/Yuma hilt sometime further down the timeline. The quality and condition of not just the paint, but the hilt itself looks pretty clean for something that's supposed to been used for stunt work 40 years ago, especially in comparison to how knackered the Luke Hero hilt is today. Maybe it was something that was around and wasn't used for production. It's partial paint application also makes me wonder why some things were left bare. Maybe it wasn't necessary? I'm trying to find a photo of it but can't, but there's a pic floating around here recently posted for the photo used as reference for the RotJ movie poster artwork. I'm wondering if this hilt isn't that one in that photo.
I'm also wondering if this isn't the hilt auctioned many years ago, too. I know thd9791 was looking into it for something. So I'm paging him to see what he has to say here.
Also paging BRRogers and DaveP for what they may see here. I'm nowhere near an expert on this hilt compared to those two.
The hilt in question here looks to have very similar dimensions and details to the Yuma/Hero; it may trace its lineage back, we don't know. We can infer a few things based on what's here. The box itself being a cast from the Hero box, specifically the deleted cave sequence with the sliding rails for the clamp card, implies that addition to this hilt and the paint scheme was added after the fact to make it resemble the decided Hero hilt's final finish. So whatever this was, be it a used/unused Yuma stunt, it was made to look like the proper Hero/Yuma hilt sometime further down the timeline. The quality and condition of not just the paint, but the hilt itself looks pretty clean for something that's supposed to been used for stunt work 40 years ago, especially in comparison to how knackered the Luke Hero hilt is today. Maybe it was something that was around and wasn't used for production. It's partial paint application also makes me wonder why some things were left bare. Maybe it wasn't necessary? I'm trying to find a photo of it but can't, but there's a pic floating around here recently posted for the photo used as reference for the RotJ movie poster artwork. I'm wondering if this hilt isn't that one in that photo.
I'm also wondering if this isn't the hilt auctioned many years ago, too. I know thd9791 was looking into it for something. So I'm paging him to see what he has to say here.
Also paging BRRogers and DaveP for what they may see here. I'm nowhere near an expert on this hilt compared to those two.
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Good points, I can tell you that the grenade section chip scheme i have seen before...Also, I took other screen caps that show the two screws vaguely that hold the box down and the top of it is very dark. The screws would be in the same place the Yuma screws are in. Notice the buttons are dark as well as one of the arrows. I'm wondering if the whole box was made with black resin or even maybe delrin? And painted over. My mind is also going crazy why a good portion of this hilt is so clean, like you said. The Yuma was a pretty clean hilt. The paint on the neck looks too pretty of course but I'm wondering, like you, if they got it ready and just never used it...or they had gaffer tape over it for some reason, maybe to mimic the V2 for a specific Endor scene? IDK. It definitely was made to hold a rod.
Box is definitely cast, cast and painted. Box is also in the correct position as the d-ring pommel cube, a leftover from mimicking the details of the V3 stunt casts. The grip rings also look to mirror the Yuma/Stunts. That would imply that the hilts were copied on a copy lathe rather than hand-machined (like Brrogers has experimented with). This really may be another Yuma stunt produced, but unused, if those details match.
There also isn't a milling mark/drill hole on the emitter flange as supposed on the Cave Hero. I know Halliwax had encouraged DaveP to not have one on his new Hero/Yuma run that he's doing.
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Okay, I can post pictures later if we'd like, but this is not a match for the Yuma/Hero.
We don't know how many were made, but there are matching machining marks between the two sabers... filming in Yuma and the hero.
This saber has an incorrect diameter emitter plate, too wide
The windvane lip has been machined like the V2, not like the on screen saber.
The grenade rings seem to be all identical, the chips (which are soft and hand painted) disguise this fact
The upper neck might be too skinny too, needless to say the weird paint job.
The box has identical profile distortions to a mold taken post production. Weirdly, the card area has been milled out, and bolts run through it to mimic the yuma.
My best educated guess is someone had a cast of the saber that was damaged or poor, and machined a replacement body. There is also a possibility that this is a prototype for Icons or someone back in the day, Icons only colored the upper neck and left the windvane silver on their prototype. Which is bad news, if this is where they got the idea for the paintjob (if it's not icons) as that only shows up well after Star Wars is over.
We don't know how many were made, but there are matching machining marks between the two sabers... filming in Yuma and the hero.
This saber has an incorrect diameter emitter plate, too wide
The windvane lip has been machined like the V2, not like the on screen saber.
The grenade rings seem to be all identical, the chips (which are soft and hand painted) disguise this fact
The upper neck might be too skinny too, needless to say the weird paint job.
The box has identical profile distortions to a mold taken post production. Weirdly, the card area has been milled out, and bolts run through it to mimic the yuma.
My best educated guess is someone had a cast of the saber that was damaged or poor, and machined a replacement body. There is also a possibility that this is a prototype for Icons or someone back in the day, Icons only colored the upper neck and left the windvane silver on their prototype. Which is bad news, if this is where they got the idea for the paintjob (if it's not icons) as that only shows up well after Star Wars is over.
Just a question...because of these things you say, windvane mimicking the v2 with a wide emitter plate, any chance you've seen the Endor Stunt after Luke slices the bike?
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I disagree about the rings. The rings are uneven. I know what you're saying about the paint throwing us off but they are still uneven and those paint ridges are made by thumb nails. I've done this technique a thousand times and it looks completely identical to ones I've done myself. The paint can flake off with soft curves etc. We also know that the " known Yuma " and " Cave Hero" are indeed the same hilt...no question about that, and the Hero and ISYHCANL most likely used the same rails. Knowing the Yuma and ISYHCANL had the two screws holding the box on, it doesn't surprise me at all that this hilt also has two screws holding the box down. I do not believe this hilt is an icons prototype. Icons grenade rings are thicker and even and I've seen the tri-ring position facing completely down in some cases, not clocked right. The cubes don't match this one either. This hilt has the tri ring hole in the proper position as well. Also, the icons necks I've seen are painted higher up the emitter like the v3 and paint looked different(Doesn't mean much, just saying)
Here is a another question i have...if this is coming out now, and Jason would/should know that the Cave Hero is well known and can be viewed, then why would he be convinced that he has a legitimate ROTJ prop knowing that his does not have the electrical internals ,red green arrows etc. ? Seems to me, he knows something we don't being a little closer to the people affiliated with the actual movies and that makes more sense to me. Obviously, a ton of research has been done on this forum and I have the utmost respect for all the talent and hard work you all have done to get the intel right but there is still a lot we don't know. If this is legit then this certainly changes our thinking a bit. It's not a stretch what Palps said at all to think this was an unused stunt possibly but then later on put a cast Hero box on it. I mean the guy has " THE ORIGINAL handwritten script by George Lucas...I highly doubt he just accepted a Luke Skywalker ROTJ hilt without any corroboration. But...I could be naive.
I have my own theory, but there would be no way , even if I thought I had an actual prop, that I would go public in the fashion he did, drawing that kind of money and attention on myself if I wasn't 100% sure and had proof that what I had was legit. Nor would I attach something that personal of George's to it. The minute I got debunked, there goes the money and the reputation and you've stained others names in the process by making even your best friend, a liar. I'm not buying that this is a fake. I also wouldn't be taking it out of some plastic box with other things wrapped in a tiny piece of bubble wrap either...lol . Atleast Brandon has his in padded case...lol
Thanks for the clearing up! My ignorance on this stuff knows no bounds!
What is the wonderful guidebook?
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