Vader ESB 'hero' cape/robe details

[vaderdarth]

No trim on the lower edge of the cape...............it's the satin lining layer showing under the wool layer.........which is why it's irregular in height from left to right. It fools alot of people.

Dave

 

[Darth Kahnt]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Feb 13 2006, 09:45 PM
No trim on the lower edge of the cape...............it's the satin lining layer showing under the wool layer.........which is why it's irregular in height from left to right.  It fools alot of people. 

Dave

[snapback]1183717[/snapback]​

Man, the lining sticks out quite a bit if thats the case.

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

See I dont really buy into the satin lining showing under the wool Dave because we are seeing at least 3 or 4 inches of shiny material. Because we are seeing so much shiny material, it seems to me that that would indicate either a crappy tailoring job (talk about someone forgetting to trim the satin) or it was intentionally left long. I buy the fact that we might see a hair of shiny material under the vertical length of the cape, ie, the sides as it curls over a bit, but even then we never see more than a half inch to an inch....and this is at least 3 to 4 inches of material. The shiny material follows the same exact route the wool does, so the argument that the the darker wool is someone cinched higher as its on the outside just doesnt add up.

Now a satin edge would be silly. It would fray and tear up within several hours.


A leather edge makes sense.


I should note that I have a 3 or 4 inche leather edge sewn to my cape and being a Prowse sized guy....appreciate it as the leather edge does exactly what youd expect....looks shiny and wont fray.


Again, its entirely possible and almost certain that LFL had several capes.

We know there was as least some kind of stunt cape and tunic as well as armor.

I would be suprised if there werent various capes...capes are easy to make for a studio.

I think if we work through the motions, there is enough room to presume some capes had edges, others didnt....and for those that appear to have a bottom edge, leather makes more sense than satin (trust me).


EDIT: garment leather is the ideal thickness. Very thin, rather like a thin leather jacket. It flows very well (is very flexible), but helps to keep the cape from blowing up too high and does not add real weight to speak of at that point.

 

[KevVader]

....well, unless you're rock climbing with the cape on, a hemmed satin edge will hold up just fine.

I use garment leather for the collars of the cape that I offer.....and yes it is thin and flexible. But to get the shiny appearance of the leather it needs to be tanned and treated. This treatment is a very thin coating which protects the leather. It also makes it stiffer than untreated leather. It just doesn't flow as well as a fabric...also if you look at the screen caps, the edge shown is very shiny...looks like a satin to me.....

I will agree tho that if it is the lining hanging out that much, then LFL sure hired some crappy seamtresses/tailors to make the capesets....

 

[ob1al]

Here's the image I'm talking about from the archives book; look at how much silk lining hangs down on the left hand (as we look at it) side:

Sorry about the quality, I took a photo of the book as my scanner is knackered.

 

[marcvs66]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Feb 14 2006, 01:45 AM
No trim on the lower edge of the cape...............it's the satin lining layer showing under the wool layer.........which is why it's irregular in height from left to right.  It fools alot of people. 

Dave

[snapback]1183717[/snapback]​

Yep - Dave's definitey right on that one... I agree 100% - it's just the lining sticking out... no leather-edge [cape wouldn't drape right and there really is no purpose/need to protect the edge of the cape]... sloppy craftsmanship is the answer - as so often seems to be the case in the SW movie/prop-making universe.

 

[kurtyboy]

oops.

 

[TMP]

Take a look at the clip were Vader Kneels in front of the Hologram.
It is a SATIN Trim going arround. Its not the satin folding down from the inner cape. This is Stiched. If it folded outwards while kneeling the material under whould be uneven. Also the way the cape hangs the trim arround if it was just hanging whould be uneven. It is NOT leather going arround.

 

[TMP]

ob1al... What is wrong with the photo you show?
That is the Stunt cape and robe.

In fact in the scene at Hoth the cape and robe is even shorter.
Dont take a photo from a book. Take a photo from the movie.

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Yep - Dave's definitey right on that one... I agree 100% - it's just the lining sticking out... no leather-edge [cape wouldn't drape right and there really is no purpose/need to protect the edge of the cape]... sloppy craftsmanship is the answer - as so often seems to be the case in the SW movie/prop-making universe.

woah hold on thats a huge jump in logic. A shine can be created with a nice garment leather just the same as satin. Actually, some satins can absord light as well. I regularly buy leather and work with a leather repair fella. There are plenty of thin, flexible leathers that could create the same shine as """satin""" Lots of historical leathers were thin and covered armor. There shine was quite evident.

As for sloppy tailoring I find this a weaker argument simply because by ESB, the LFL budget was much bigger and Vaders costume was clearly overhauled. A crappy edge would have been noted in the ILM costume reviews in which the costumes were worn and the actors moved and posed to review the costume. A three or four inch overhang would have been caught, Im pretty sure.

....well, unless you're rock climbing with the cape on, a hemmed satin edge will hold up just fine.

try cement or many other urban environments...or sets that contain edges...

, the edge shown is very shiny...looks like a satin to me.....

you guys need to think about set-lighting. Its not the same as holding a piece of leather in one hand, and a piece of satin in the other and saying a-hah, we have a shiny winner. Set lighting is essentially the dual between intentional light and shadow. Ive been on a handful of sets and done costumes attesting to this balance. I guess what Im saying is simply that while NONE of us can prove what the hell the edge was....

....it is going a bit far to assuredly declare it satin.



As for this photo...I suspect it could be a stunt cape. Very short.

That actually brings up a good point...given the sheer paucity of reliable photos, I think all this is rather moot.

My advice to anyone trooping, get a garment leather edge. DO NOT risk your expensive wool scraping---even every so often --- on the ground or an edge. If you spent all that money on a good cape, dont let it get scuffed. Unlike Darth Vader, most of us dont have two dozen capes in the hypercloset.

 

[TMP]

The Red background photo is a Promo Photo.

This is what i said about a helmet.
To speak about accuracy its almost virtually impossible because people fall in love with one photo and say that is Accurate.

Yes i agree if you want one like the Photo then that is what you should go for.

But another guy looks at another photo and say HEY THIS IS ACCURATE..
I want it like that.. Then he should go for that.

I personally think i go for what i se in the movie in the majority of the scenes.
I do not belive in promo shots, or exibits. I se the movie and i se the details that i se there. I do not go for one scene. I look at the largest % of what i se and got for that. If people want a half cape and robe that is a stunt then go for the stunt version. I go for what was intented to show and what was used the most in the movies.

IN ANH,ESB ROTJ all have satin lining and satin trim in most of the scenes.
I added the leather on the Trim on the vertical edge on my capes, but those can be removed if requested. But these are NOT visible for the eye. But it makes the cape hang nicer on the front.

As far as the Robe... Nobody seam to accept what i say....
But the Robe has a SPLIT on EACH side of the Legs. You can also se this in the movie but ALSO se this in the PROMOSHOT.. Look how you can se the Red background between his leg and Robe.

I rest my case.
If we speak about movie accuracy then please keep to the movie.
If we speak about a photo accuracy then stick to the photo.

 

[TMP]

Durasteel Corporation I agree and disagree.

A leather trim arround the cape will make it more durable. BUT also more Heavy.
It will then DRAG the cape more to the ground. This will cause extra stress to the leather. A leather trim will not flow like the movie version.

If you have heavy material cape and robe i agree on leather might be the best.
But not for accuracy. For lighter material satin whould be ideal because it will flow.

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

But the Robe has a SPLIT on EACH side of the Legs. You can also se this in the movie but ALSO se this in the PROMOSHOT..

a curious point. can you back this up?


here is a photo in ROTJ showing the tunic swirling quite a bit....a relatively unformly outward swirl suggests its not two pieces or we would see the material flipping over. I am basing on houplandes and coathardees of the 14th and 15th centuries which are EXTREMELY VOLUMINOUS.

 

[vaderdarth]

Drew, the way you can explain it away is this............When I got my GF robes way back when.............I hemmed the cape and robe myself. I decided to experiment and hem the lining and cape fabrics separately along the bottom edge.....the only places they were sewn together were on the sides of the cape. I did this because when you lay the cape flat on the floor..........and get the two fabrics the same length..........and hem them together.................then hang it on a curved surface (mannequin) the lining becomes longer than the wool and it looks like a wad or bubble of fabric ..........definitely not screen accurate. So I thought, well, let me just leave them separate and see what happens...............and I had a buddy wear it after I hemmed it that way..........and the look of the two layers when worn is identical to the shots in ESB.

I didn't just study photos to come to my conclusion. If that were satin or leather added to the wool........it would definitely be uniform all along the bottom edge of the cape which it clearly isn't.

Peace,

Dave

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Cape shots (in general):

Several good hints of an edge also appear here...the scenes were probably shot at the same time:

This photo suggest a possible edge, which curiously, seems to drape similarly to my thin garment leather edge. Its rather odd that the cape is also so long.

Either way we slice it guys, its quite inconclusive in my opinion.

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Oh I definately agree that hands on experimentation helps alot...I sewed my cape as well.

As for this photo:

I have seen myself on camera before walking and my cape edge (which is quite straight) flowed and ebbed similarly to that photo above.

The fundamental reason I am leary of excepting an the satin lining sticking out theory is simply that an costumer worth their weight in fabric would know better...and the oversight would surely have been caught in preproduction...UNLESS this cape was a quick fix due to some other cape being damaged.

The other reason is because a satin lining can be more rounded than a sewn on edge. Several of the photos show rather sharp L shaped angles suggesting added on edge.

?????????? :confused

I wont lose any sleep over it though. Lets talk about warp and weft. :lol

 

[TMP]

It shows the robe has a split.
If you look closely on the ROTJ you se the same.
I do not have a screen cap of it.. If someone else can do this please put this up.

 

[TMP]

If you have a Satin Rim or a Leather rim going arround you can hem up the end of the satin lining more up. This way you avoid the visible drapeing like is refferd to. Its very logic that there is a rim at the bottom and in the movie we all se this. But if it is leather or Satin can be discussed and i people can have different feelings and opinions. But one thing is for sure. The ROBE has a Split like my cape have.

Think about it. its Very logic and smart.
Full movement no resistant.

 

[TMP]

BTW.... That ESB promo picture..
What Version Stormtrooper armor is that on the left? A mix of Sandtrooper and Stormtrooper? Also if that is ESB... Were is the chain hook on Vaders Cape.
Again promoshots i rarly look at for reffrence for a costume. I usually go for the movie. But of interest what version armor is that on the left side. It looks like they reversed the abdominal plate upside down if you compare it to the Version on the right.. And the version on the right is not the same armor as on the left. Two different helmets. One had flat lenses the other one has ovel lenses. Also note the buttons on the chest of the trooper armor one is Reversed _l shape The other is upside down. The helmets also look totaly different..

I say. If we shal reffer to reffrence and speak about accuracy i preffer to stick to the movie scenes and the shots taken from the movie and the movie archives.
Promoshots tend to be off. Because ESB did not have the cape on the inside of the armor. Ironic enought.. :lol :lol That suit is not ESB accurate :rolleyes

 

[HDPE]

Originally posted by TMP@Feb 15 2006, 04:25 PM
BTW.... That ESB promo picture..
What Version Stormtrooper armor is that on the left? A mix of Sandtrooper and Stormtrooper? Also if that is ESB... Were is the chain hook on Vaders Cape.
Again promoshots i rarly look at for reffrence for a costume. I usually go for the movie. But of interest what version armor is that on the left side. It looks like they reversed the abdominal plate upside down if you compare it to the Version on the right.. And the version on the right is not the same armor as on the left. Two different helmets. One had flat lenses the other one has ovel lenses. Also note the buttons on the chest of the trooper armor one is Reversed _l shape The other is upside down.  The helmets also look totaly different..

The trooper on the left(when you look at the pic) with the high brow is 100% ESB.

There was a discussion going on in another thread about the trooper on the right, his armor is ROTJ and his helmet is either a reconditioned ROTJ helmet or a strange hero helmet, odd as the promo shot is circa ESB :confused .

Cheers