Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[Clutch]

That's what happens when you let a sculptor do a restoration. :lol

 

[Zombie Killer]

Edit, My mistake sorry.

 

[vaderdarth]

Excellent post Paul.

 

[Art Andrews]

Paul, thank you for posting this info. I am not sure I understand all of it, but I greatly appreciate your approach and tact and your clear to desire to inform and educate. Posts like this are more of what this community needs and certainly more of what the Vader niche needs.

thumbsup:thumbsup

I've not been around for some time.

As I was amongst the few in the beginning associated with the TM I'll just share a couple of things.

I used to speak to Jesper all the time and many things were covered about this helmet very early on. There are some things I'll keep private but he never confessed to me he added the scar but I do know subtle alterations were made, some intentional as recast traits (rightly so) and some mistakingly(from an ESB perspective mainly) (oversanding, worms, eyebrow, neck etc). I discussed the scar with jesper just as I discussed the whole TM runs. The alterations were never that bad once the group had permission to alter some of the flawed pulls from the original run. Yes the original was altered then but still we have to bear in mind 3 people were involved with the moulding and casting process in the end and this is just the original let alone the sideline runs of TM derived casts. Jesper spent 6mths doing his best I know some wern't as happy with his efforts but that's life. From what I recall the Scar was said to be there when I questioned it, it was blamed on the use of photoshop in the images to prevent the likes of Phil and John copying details onto their casts, this is why people are confused over Tom's pictures as Jesper indicated that they were photoshopped. As a friend I thought it rude of me to pry anymore into any accusation as the whole TM thing in the end became a mess apart from the integrity of Tom, Jesper tried his best as mentioned but trying to please so many fanatics would take it's toll. Yes there are flaws with the whole story but until another owner hurries up and strips his UK mold of paint :loveand Thomas looks more into the removal of paint on the TD the TM remains the only cast with an overly indented C Scar formation. There is no point asking Jesper to confirm anything as Nick has already stated he didn't add it so that's the word when I questioned it in 2007 to present day. Many other things haven't even been discussed in public as most of it thesedays is behind the scenes.


I own the most TM castings to this day, so it's an important item to me. However my interest is accuracy which I'm aware of and why I collect other authentic items and as I have said before and been the first one to make this point regarding authentic castings. The perfect blend of helmet is a mix of many others dependant on what version you seek. Things are better about the TD, the SL, DJ, TM etc. Both US and UK molds have their pros and cons. You would be a fool to discredit the TM just because the indentation of a C Scar is over pronounced. It is (pending flaws) the most accurate represenation of an ESB helmet in the community. However don't dismiss the TM for ANH. While I prefer some other helmets as an ANH base it does feature details that shouldn't be overlooked. There are many people on the sidelines here but having a collection of authentic pieces is what validates the process easier if you know what to compare study and so fourth.

The EFX at orlando was not accurate either as the scar is raised and indented more than that of a paint flake. The TM scar is also not accurate. This is no different than me telling people long ago that the domes all differ to such a degree, especially from ANH-ESB. One day this will all be explained but I can certainly say anyone who wants to keep their integrity is not about to make all these comparisons and take center stage when we have our word to keep and I mean this accross the board with all castings from ANH-ROTJ not just the TM.

 

[ArtisanProps]

Let's have a look at the photo below - the one entitled "stripped down TM casting all surfaces sanded down". This image shows the ORIGINAL TM faceplate after the paint, primer and reddish bondo has been removed by me via acetone. This image is NOT photoshopped.

I took a handful of pics after acetone orgy, most of them have been shown here already. I.

I don't understand why were still reading people say that the pics are photoshopped?
They are not photoshopped.. If you read the quotes from Vadermania, you
can plainly see that Jesper had nothing to do with these photo's.. Vadermania
clearly stated that HE took the photo's and they are not photoshopped.. I can
understand the reluctance to accept that this detail was added. There is no
better proof then the words of the person who stripped the paint and took the
pictures (Vadermania)

Like everyone has already said, the TM is still a top shelf helmet, knowone
is saying it isn't..

 

[vaderdarth]

Artisan, if Tom said it's not tampered with, we have to take his word for it, it's his pic, he took it. A handful of guys simply think it is based on what JRX told them..........but was apparently referring to different photo entirely. At least that's how I read it.

 

[ArtisanProps]

Artisan, if Tom said it's not tampered with, we have to take his word for it, it's his pic, he took it. A handful of guys simply think it is based on what JRX told them..........but was apparently referring to different photo entirely. At least that's how I read it.

Ok, yes I heard about these other pics, the ones Jesper took while he
was cleaning off the "black resin". BUT, there is something that I can't seem
to shake and that is, how come Jesper never sent the OWNER (vadermania)
some of those pics. How come he sent him photoshopped pics? That just
seems strange to me.. Jesper had nothing to hide from vadermania and no
reason not to send him the actual pics.. Vadermania as well as others who
worked close to this project admited that Jesper was the only one with those
photo's..

 

[Trooper_trent]

Jesper told me how he removed the resin at the cheek under which the C-Scar was. I will post that tomorrow.
But to make it clear. Ginos pic was not photoshopped (Tom is right about that), the resin was on this pic on the cheek, teeths, eybrows and was removed by Jesper.....result were some fine details AND the C-Scar as part of the original helmet cast. Good night.

Where? Where is the resin on the cheek covering the C-scar?

If you ask me to point out where the resin is on the brow, I could show you instantly. If you ask me to point out where the resin is on the cheek covering the C-scar, I'd ask you what you're smoking because it's not there.
If this is truly what you're suggesting, he must have used two different kinds of resin for the brow and cheek. One black and one...invisible.

 

[GINO]

Let's not get hung up on the color of the resin.
It wouldn't matter if it was the exact same color.
What does matter is that there are landmarks on the cheek that are on the before and after.
If there were resin covering that area, you would still be able to tell regardless of the color.

I was sent this screen cap of a post made from the restored old prop den thread which originally showed some of the original pics of the stripped down original TM.

The only pics showing are the same ones that I posted. Why were the others from that set removed? All of these pics were hosted from the same site, but he site said those photos were removed.
I would very much like to see those removed pics as they might have some value.
Tom, would you be willing to post those other pics here?


.

 

[vaderdarth]

No idea Artisan, honestly I'm not privy to a lot more than you most likely. I do think Tom had them at one time, not sure if he still has them or has just misplaced them. That would have to be directed to him. More than one person has admitted to having seen the photos from Jesper, but they still belong to Jesper. I'm sure they will seek his permission to post if it's a possibility.

Oh and when Paul says overly indented C scar on the TM, that is in direct comparison only to the TD, which is still covered with paint at present. To date that is the only other UK mould casting that wasn't tampered with seen on a public board. Please don't take that phrase out of context.

I'd love to see the TD with no paint for the first time. That would rock.

 

[ArtisanProps]

It would be nice to see the pics that are missing from that thread. They're most likely
very damning..

 

[Trooper_trent]

Let's not get hung up on the color of the resin.
It wouldn't matter if it was the exact same color.

That was more of a sarcastic comment, meaning I don't see any resin on the cheek area

Sorry about that.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Dave, we can read English and Paul was pretty clear. He said the scar on the TM is not accurate.

 

[GINO]

Oh and when Paul says overly indented C scar on the TM, that is in direct comparison only to the TD, which is still covered with paint at present. To date that is the only other UK mould casting that wasn't tampered with seen on a public board. Please don't take that phrase out of context.

I don't think that is what Paul meant.
Also, the TD definitely was tampered with.
It was a casting where the tusk tubes were broken off and the previous owner did their best to restore them and did so incorrectly, which is why they are short.
Even if the TD was stripped of paint, that doesn't necessarily guarantee that the casting underneath was not cleaned up as well.



.

 

[encased]

Thank you for the post Paul. I'm sure everybody had something to nitpick and gripe about about when the work was being done and shown as everyone sees different things. The loss of some of the ESB traits was indeed unfortunate and I wish they had been left so the new casting owners could choose to remove them or not but such is life.

Does anyone know how many castings were made. I still love the look of that helmet as I love to compare everything. I'm the one in Toys'r us looking at every figure comparing paint jobs before I buy one.

Plus I'd love to eventually have an ANH and ESB full display. Maybe one day we can chat.

 

[OldKen]

See I don't think JRX did anything to get one over on people. I think he only did what he thought would be best. I think the reason he dissappeared is because he got wind that he might have made a bad descision.

But who knows? I always liked the guy from his online personality and his skill is top notch. Up there with the big boys IMHO.

Wish he could just pop in and give the REAL answer.

But even if he said, "yeah, I sculpted that in there. There was NO C on the original. I added it"

I STILL think some of you would take that to mean... THERE HAS TO BE RESIN OVER IT AND SHADOWS AND OPTICAL ILLUSIONS!

Cause I too took what Paul said to mean... THE SCAR IS WRONG. Now what does that tell us? It tells me JRX or someone else in the mix added it. Or at the very LEAST added TO it. It was cleaned up. Altered. Changed.

Just like every other casting out there.

"But that's just the way it is.... things will never be the same."

I had a thought while getting ready earlier.

Every single one of the people bashing this helmet and/or Gino at one time hated Gino because he would say things like, "I can't share that with you." or, "I gave my word to a close friend in the industry" Now that is all that has been said about the proof you guys can't show... like... verbatim.

Also most of you would say things like, "if I had secrets that would help the community have better props, I WOULD SHARE THEM SO WE COULD ALL ENJOY IT."

Gino has made it so for the first time EVER the average Joe can have a damn CLOSE to perfect Vader helmet...

And everyone is still pissed.

Am I taking crazy pills, or is it everyone else?

 

[Trooper_trent]

Gino has made it so for the first time EVER the average Joe can have a damn CLOSE to perfect Vader helmet...

And everyone is still pissed.

Am I taking crazy pills, or is it everyone else?

Seems to me the only people that are pissed are the people that don't WANT the average Joe to have a damn close to perfect Vader helmet because they believe it somehow devalues their own damn close to perfect Vader helmet.

 

[defstartrooper]

Ok i've been told not to post in this thread ever again but Art i hope you're sensible about this as i just want to show something that disputes the evidence shown that no filler is possibly on the pre restored TM Vader cheek.
No politics no personal comments nothing else just two photos.

This is the photo from the first page and the argument put forth as evidence of no filler is that there's no visual sign of such, unlike the glob of black shiney filler on the eyebrow.

Here is a photo of the pre restored TM mouth area and the post restored TM mouth area, i've outlined an area which is dull in appearence and shows no outward sign of filler in the top which is before the filler was removed.
The bottom shows the same area with a fair amount of material removed which can only have been filler, notice the smoothness of the surface and lack of fibres showing.

I think this demonstrates pretty well that just because there's no outward appearence of filler present on a photo it doesn't mean there's no filler present.

You decide for yourselves if there's room for doubt about the evidence used to accuse Vadermania or Jesper of fabricating the cheek dent or not.

Thank you to whoever owns this pic i hope you don't mind me posting it i'll remove it if you wish me to.

Goodnight.

 

[JediCarl]

That is what in a courtroom would be called diversion evidence.

Very interesting photos, for sure. But how do they prove that the original UK molds feature the C-scar as a dimensional artifact and original part of the mold exactly? I'm confused. Please educate us unwashed.

 

[Hedjii72]

My first impression of the pics is on the top photo, below the red box, it looks gloppy and, well, slightly darker. The cheek on the other hand is smooth as a baby's bottom.