The Official Boycott Star Wars Bluray thread

[PHArchivist]

Lucas ment that people changing others work is wrong, these films are his creations right?

That perspective incorporates interpretation of his words before Congress.

Did he explicitly (or implicitly) state that his intent was specifically applicable to the dynamic of someone ELSE altering a previous work?

Did he explicitly (or implicitly) state that it is OK to go back and change your own work?

I dunno... I haven't read the entire transcript.

But using the cop-out that "But its OK to change your own work." sounds just like the bull**** excuse GL would use today to reconcile his contradictions and rationalize his alterations.

 

[Solo4114]

Lucas ment that people changing others work is wrong, these films are his creations right?

Sorry, but that's just a bit too convenient a dodge. Did you actually read his testimony? The full text of it? Not just the snippets of it, but the whole thing. Did you consider the context of the testimony?

If you did, then it's pretty clear that his current stance is basically a 180 from what he said back then. There's just no getting around that, no convenient "jedi mind trick" you can use to dodge it.

It's true that he implies corporations and such shouldn't be permitted to modify existing works, but that does not, by extension, mean that original creators should, either. Moreover, later in the speech, he makes a few central points:

Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten....

The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests. And the proof of that is that even a copyright law only permits the creators and their estate a limited amount of time to enjoy the economic fruits of that work...

Attention should be paid to this question of our soul, and not simply to accounting procedures. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.


I hope you have the courage to lead America in acknowledging the importance of American art to the human race, and accord the proper protection for the creators of that art--as it is accorded them in much of the rest of the world communities.

Take a good hard look at that. You'll note that nowhere in there does he say "Unless, of course, the original creator wants to mess around with it. That's ok."

The overarching sentiment of his statements are that (A) art is significant, (B) it should be preserved in its original form, and (C) it should not be destroyed or altered because to do so would deprive the world of important cultural contributions. There's no caveat in there that says "Except for me, with my own films because they're MY stories, and they're MINE to mess around with. Public outcry to the contrary notwithstanding."


He flip-flopped.

Period.

He has now adopted an attitude that runs directly contrary to the one he expressed previously. You may agree more with that latter attitude (that creators have a right to do whatever they want with their own works forever, without regard for the public or preserving the original form of their art), and that's as may be. Philosophically, you can debate the merits of either side of the argument.

But to claim that he hasn't blatantly changed his position -- as evidenced by his own behavior -- is simply willful blindness. Likewise, for him to try to "explain away" his previous comments and claim that they don't run contrary to his behavior is simply self-delusion or flat-out bulls**t.

 

[PHArchivist]

The other thing that really makes me question just how loony GL might really be is his choices in changes (as discussed ad infinitum here already).

But what's more important?

Making Ewoks blink...?

Or MAYBE...

Correcting the revelation that JAWAS have long, pink, fleshy human arms.

Or that after R5-D4 blows his lid, he is magically back in line with Artoo.

 

[sakanade]

What other changes besides adding the "no, noooo" ?

 

[PHArchivist]

Threads like this cause me to introspect.

Am I angry with GL and/or his changes?

No, not really. Not the changes anyway. What really frustrates me with him is his seemingly notable inability to face reality.

Or to simply FESS UP.

To come out and loudly and publicly state "I changed my mind since 1988 - so suck it up!" or "I don't give a rat's ass if you like my changes or not - I like them and its my choice!"

Maybe he has - I don't know... I honestly don't pay that much attention.

But - from my perspective - his public profile, image, what have you, makes it seem like he is:
--A revisionist historian ("I meant to do that ALL the time!")
--Completely deluded
--Creatively out of touch
--In complete denial

I could go on...

No, I'm not truly angry. More so frustrated by my degree of bewilderment. I just want to grab him by both shoulders, shake him, and scream, "WHY!? I DON'T GET IT!! Explain this to me!"


Its not unlike the moron in the carpool lane going 10 MPH slower that everybody else.

My slowed rate of speed isn't really the issue - I can get out, and get around the person (analgous to reverting to the older video releases of SW).

But when cars in the REGULAR lanes are going faster, and the person is PISSING off 10 cars behind him, I just want to grab him by both shoulders, shake him, and scream, "WHY!? I DON'T GET IT!! Explain this to me!"

 

[NAZGÛL]

The speech seems very out of context, I read it as he wanted laws to keep other people from altering the artists work.

 

[Alan Cross]

I honestly don't get the rage reaction. The guy made six star wars films. Two of them are classics. The other four, not so much. He can do with them whatever he likes because he made them. If you don't like his changes and hold the original versions sacred, then you can still access those original versions on DVD.

And adding "Nooooo" during Vader's head turn sequence in Jedi? I remember watching that moment, realizing, THIS IS IT, the climactic moment of the film -- the emotional focal point of the entire trilogy -- and we're just watching a guy in a mask move his head from side to side... I was disappointed and underwhelmed in that moment when I first saw it in the early eighties. I GET why he'd want to "fix it."

Let it go.

 

[Nwerke]

It's a little annoying to see the posts like "I know everybody here is gonna buy it no matter what they say" but what can you do? Not worth the energy to convince them even though I give into temptation and try sometimes :lol

It really is, isn't it? It's like some just can't grasp the idea that not everyone actually feel a compulsion to run out and buy pop culture item X.

Have had a couple of recent experiences of essentially saying the equivalent of "the sky is blue and I'm a middle aged white male" and being told "no, the sky is green and you're a 25yo Tierra del Fuegan lesbian activist". Nnnggh, where do you start? Same frustration. You say 'no no, where do you get off saying that? You have absolutely no basis for saying that. Look, here's a picture of me, with the sky behind me' and you get something like "PHOTOSHOOOOOP! Try harder, that was really lame, Consuela" thrown in your face.

Where does this stuff come from? Is it a reversion to schoolyard tactics of flat contradiction in lieu of actual debate, or is it something else? An actual inability to believe perfectly ordinary, reasonable propositions?

Sorry, kind of a tangent there, just glad it isn't just me feeling that way!

 

[PHArchivist]

I honestly don't get the rage reaction. The guy made six star wars films. Two of them are classics. The other four, not so much. He can do with them whatever he likes because he made them. If you don't like his changes and hold the original versions sacred, then you can still access those original versions on DVD.

For me, its not rage. Frustrated bewidlerment yes; not rage.

But his greatest crime is not in the alterations or changes, but in actively and vocally suppressing the originals.

Speilberg = ET = 'nuff said.

And adding "Nooooo" during Vader's head turn sequence in Jedi? I remember watching that moment, realizing, THIS IS IT, the climactic moment of the film -- the emotional focal point of the entire trilogy -- and we're just watching a guy in a mask move his head from side to side... I was disappointed and underwhelmed in that moment when I first saw it in the early eighties. I GET why he'd want to "fix it."

I personally am intrigued by the fact that you agree with the change. I respect your opinion and your open statement. It is interesting to see that there are people who do see the other side of the subjective, creative choice.

I don't agree with the choice, and still hold that the vast majority would not.

But every indiviudal has a right to their own opinion (contrary to the themes present in this thread!), and we should respect each others opinions. It is clearly posible to voice an alternate (or even disparate) opinion without denigrating the other's.

 

[jcoffman99]

Interesting poll from USAToday.com

Will you buy it? Yes 24%
No 51%
Undecided 25%

 

[PHArchivist]

I'm buying it...

Not to "experience the story" or to re-live my childhood memories. I just want to see the visuals in HD. Especially the effects shots. So from that perspective, the changes are a lesser irritant.

Now...

If GL totally erradicated all the model shots of the Death Star, and replaced them with digital imagery, I'd be in my car heading up to Marin tomorrow!

 

[The Rock-a-who]

One of the biggest problems with me is, I have watched the OT so many times (I've seen ANH alone 30+ in theaters alone in the late 70s/early 80s) is that it's burned in my brain.

So now when I watch the SEs, I don't sit and watch and enjoy the movie, I watch, looking for "that's new" in it.

I'm just used to Star Wars being a certain way. I have this biological rhythm to it, when when something's new added to it - it jerks me back to reality instead of continuing enveloping me into 2+ hours of fantasy and escapism.

I feel if originally in ROTJ Vader said "No!" and with the SEs taking it out, I would still complain - because it upsets what I've been used to for 30 years.

Changes for the better or worse is inconsequential to me. Anything new damages my calm and I find I can't fully enjoy the movie like I do when I watch the OT unchanged.

Yes, this is just me and I have to deal with change being inevitable (GL doubly so) but like many posting on here, it's notsomuch him making changes, it's suppressing the originals from the general populous who cry out for it and pretending that version never existed.

 

[Sean Hebein]

One of the biggest problems with me is, I have watched the OT so many times (I've seen ANH alone 30+ in theaters alone in the late 70s/early 80s) is that it's burned in my brain.

So now when I watch the SEs, I don't sit and watch and enjoy the movie, I watch, looking for "that's new" in it.

I'm just used to Star Wars being a certain way. I have this biological rhythm to it, when when something's new added to it - it jerks me back to reality instead of continuing enveloping me into 2+ hours of fantasy and escapism.

I feel if originally in ROTJ Vader said "No!" and with the SEs taking it out, I would still complain - because it upsets what I've been used to for 30 years.

Changes for the better or worse is inconsequential to me. Anything new damages my calm and I find I can't fully enjoy the movie like I do when I watch the OT unchanged.

Yes, this is just me and I have to deal with change being inevitable (GL doubly so) but like many posting on here, it's notsomuch him making changes, it's suppressing the originals from the general populous who cry out for it and pretending that version never existed.

I guess you'll have to see the new HD versions 60+ times to establish the new norm.

 

[PHArchivist]

One of the biggest problems with me is, I have watched the OT so many times (I've seen ANH alone 30+ in theaters alone in the late 70s/early 80s) is that it's burned in my brain.

So now when I watch the SEs, I don't sit and watch and enjoy the movie, I watch, looking for "that's new" in it.

I'm just used to Star Wars being a certain way. I have this biological rhythm to it, when when something's new added to it - it jerks me back to reality instead of continuing enveloping me into 2+ hours of fantasy and escapism.

I feel if originally in ROTJ Vader said "No!" and with the SEs taking it out, I would still complain - because it upsets what I've been used to for 30 years.

Changes for the better or worse is inconsequential to me. Anything new damages my calm and I find I can't fully enjoy the movie like I do when I watch the OT unchanged.

Yes, this is just me and I have to deal with change being inevitable (GL doubly so) but like many posting on here, it's notsomuch him making changes, it's suppressing the originals from the general populous who cry out for it and pretending that version never existed.

Solid ponts; totally agree. That's whay in gerneral I feel uneasy with Director's Cuts. Rarely are they better. They're just different, and throw you off.

 

[The Rock-a-who]

Interesting poll from USAToday.com

Will you buy it? Yes 24%
No 51%
Undecided 25%

Sadly, I feel many of those who say "No" will still secretly buy it.

Poll or not, if it makes a *****-ton of money, like I feel it will - we will just continue with the same every five or so years...

 

[micdavis]

You guys need to quit taking that clip out of context.

He is talking about other people changing others works. People that are dead.












You know like Marquand and Kirsh. Of course they REALLY didn't direct.

And PLEASE don't hand me the Kirsh is some great director. Look at his credits. Um......no.

Get used to it Lucas directed. (and still is, or is he)

Any one ACTUALLY KNOW how invloved he was. Or just what they can post an internet link to?

 

[jcoffman99]

This is pretty funny:
Obi-Wan Kenobi's Krayt Dragon call just won't stop! (Star Wars Blu Ray edit)
Obi-Wan Kenobi's Krayt Dragon call just won't stop! (Star Wars Blu Ray edit) - YouTube

 

[Timmythekid]

***ATTN: RE HARMY'S DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS***

Ugh...really didn't want to come back in here at all, but this is probably the best way to respond to the flood of PMs I've received regarding Harmy's 720p releases. Without dipping into the vitriol and hyperbole going round and round here, is everyone commited to buy them still buying? Everyone commited not to buy them still not buying? Oh good, well then it was all worth it.

First, yes, Harmy's versions do what they say on the tin. These were documented over at OT.com, which is where I heard about them. Purists are going to be happy with these. If you like any of the SE changes, you won't like these. Second, I will not be distributing these, no. Sorry, they're too big to fit on even a DL disc, and I don't have a blu-ray drive to burn them or the $10 a disc or whatever it is. Plus this is a minor hobby for me, something I do when the family is asleep, and I'd rather spend the time making armor, costumes, and toys for the kids. Plus you can get these pretty easily, just search binsearch.info or your newsgroup search engine of choice for "Harmy" and they pop up at the top of the list. 3-7 hours later and you've got the files. Enjoy, hopefully this will provide a viable alternative for those who were hoping for the originals. Now back to the regularly scheduled....whatever this is.

 

[dualedge]

Sadly, I feel many of those who say "No" will still secretly buy it.

Poll or not, if it makes a *****-ton of money, like I feel it will - we will just continue with the same every five or so years...

I know you're not singling anyone out and I don't even mean this rant against you personally but rather against everyone that keeps saying essentially the same thing you just said regardless of whether it was worded politely or not. (Your's was one of the more polite ones for what it's worth.)

Yes, there are always a few bad apples. Yes, the RPF has had its fair share of liars, re-casters, thieves and worse.

But this is still a community and if you can't give folks in the community the benefit of the doubt then it just makes me wonder why you're here. If you can't take our word on it when we say we won't buy a blu-ray in the store, why would you send us money for a prop? Why would you trust us when we say "this is the most accurate way to build whatever prop?"

I mean, disagree and debate with folks but don't infer that "many of us" are liars or hypocrites who say one thing and do another. Yes, there are those that do that but try to remember "innocent until proven guilty."

Most of us are pretty freakin' nice guys I think with no real reason to lie. I've met quite a few in my ten years here and was hoping to meet more at DragonCon (unfortunately it's not gonna happen this year.)

So just cut folks some slack already.

 

[micdavis]

***ATTN: RE HARMY'S DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS***

Ugh...really didn't want to come back in here at all, but this is probably the best way to respond to the flood of PMs I've received regarding Harmy's 720p releases. Without dipping into the vitriol and hyperbole going round and round here, is everyone commited to buy them still buying? Everyone commited not to buy them still not buying? Oh good, well then it was all worth it.

First, yes, Harmy's versions do what they say on the tin. These were documented over at OT.com, which is where I heard about them. Purists are going to be happy with these. If you like any of the SE changes, you won't like these. Second, I will not be distributing these, no. Sorry, they're too big to fit on even a DL disc, and I don't have a blu-ray drive to burn them or the $10 a disc or whatever it is. Plus this is a minor hobby for me, something I do when the family is asleep, and I'd rather spend the time making armor, costumes, and toys for the kids. Plus you can get these pretty easily, just search binsearch.info or your newsgroup search engine of choice for "Harmy" and they pop up at the top of the list. 3-7 hours later and you've got the files. Enjoy, hopefully this will provide a viable alternative for those who were hoping for the originals. Now back to the regularly scheduled....whatever this is.

Hey look, he made two paragraphs.

I still didn't read it.