The Falcon & Winter Soldier (tv series)

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Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
So that's it? I heard it was a finale. If so I give this show a solid C. The villains were lame and I still don't know what they were trying to do other than being bad guys. Sam's speech to the politicians seemed a little too pro terrorist without them ever telling what they are after and why we should feel any sympathy for Karli. I was actually rooting for her death because she's annoying and was trying to kill innocents.
 

JLeezy23

Sr Member
Great series overall, I'll definitely be rewatching the entire thing! Sam's speech was great, I love how we get to see just how impactful the "blip" ( EYEROLL, never liked that term at all) and the return of the dusted people is on the whole world. Glad we get to see the world's point of view on heroes and problems, and not just "we're enhanced beings, lets go fight then go home!"

Costume design was amazing! I love everything that Bucky wears, Falcon's suits was mindblowing! Even Walker's suits are well done! And man, Walker's finale shield looked even better than i thought it would, hope to see detailed pics soon!

Cant wait for the continuation, hopefully its titled Captain America and The Winter Soldier, and we see Bucky fully evolve away from his demons, and we get a sequel titled Captain America and the White Wolf. I know they touched on him moving on at the end but it'd be great to see more of the new present-day Bucky that resembles the WWII version in character and personality.

Agent Carter being on both sides is a big curveball, maybe after finding out Hydra was inside Shield really changed her perspective on authority and its really her. Using a skrull seems too simple, adding more conflict in her personal story would seem the better way to go. Since Shield was so blind about Hydra for so long, I could see why she would sell all the secrets and wouldn't want to trust any government organizations again.

The Flagsmashers seemed so very bland, could be due to rewrites, but their overall mission seemed to be to get rid of the GRC but I thought their final idea was to kill half the population to get thing the way they were. That's what i interpreted anyway. I was disappointed Batroc was taken out so easily, each time he was on screen since TWS I was hoping for something more.

Val and Walker seem to be setting up the Thunderbolts, I'm hoping they're a rival team that Cap and Bucky have to deal with while fighting the real villains in the next one, sorta like by-the-book Avengers vs who-gives-a-crap-how-its-done Suicide Squad type situation.

Awesome series, awesome arcs, next up is LOKI!
 

cboath

Master Member
So that's it? I heard it was a finale. If so I give this show a solid C. The villains were lame and I still don't know what they were trying to do other than being bad guys. Sam's speech to the politicians seemed a little too pro terrorist without them ever telling what they are after and why we should feel any sympathy for Karli. I was actually rooting for her death because she's annoying and was trying to kill innocents.
The upshot of the movement was that after the blip, people moved across borders willingly and not so much willingly. After the blip thing were in a bad state and people united ignoring borders it seems to be able to get things going and move on, etc. As a result, abandoned homes were used by refugees (for lack of a better word) and things achieved a normal in that 5 year span. As we all know, things changed big time in those 5 years. Once the blip was undone, you had 3 billion people show up and basically reek havoc on the system. People were living in their houses, doing their jobs, etc. In many cases they implied those people made advancements in their way of life, got out of poverty, etc.

The GRC in this series was voting internationally it seems, to force everyone who didn't get blipped out to give up their new homes and in many cases new countries, friends, families, etc to go back to where they were pre-blip. Basically telling those who didn't get blipped out their last 5 years were irrelevant and meant nothing and they had to give up everything they achieved in that timeframe all so that those were just returned could return to what they new without any issue. The GRC seemingly was made up of the wealthy, and/or pre-blip elite, and those who who have just returned and no one who they were now displacing with their vote. The Flagsmashers were protesting a return to the pre-blip status quo and the manner in which it was being done.

I will agree that they could have done a bit more to make this clear. Karli was right in theory, but villainous in methodology. It's quite possible editing out the virus aspect had a big impact on this aspect.

This is the third post endgame installment we've had from Marvel and this is this first time the actual un-blip was addressed. Spiderman treated it as no big deal really, WandaVision i don't recall mentioning it, and now this. This would be the reality. Perhaps the virus version takes it head on more, i don't know. But to me, that'd be the only issue with this. Other than that, it was excellent.
 

Usagi Pilgrim

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
From what Sam said to the senators in the finale, when he compared Thanos with Karli, the virus storyline would've had them trying to eradicate half the population again.
 

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Solo4114

Master Member
The upshot of the movement was that after the blip, people moved across borders willingly and not so much willingly. After the blip thing were in a bad state and people united ignoring borders it seems to be able to get things going and move on, etc. As a result, abandoned homes were used by refugees (for lack of a better word) and things achieved a normal in that 5 year span. As we all know, things changed big time in those 5 years. Once the blip was undone, you had 3 billion people show up and basically reek havoc on the system. People were living in their houses, doing their jobs, etc. In many cases they implied those people made advancements in their way of life, got out of poverty, etc.

The GRC in this series was voting internationally it seems, to force everyone who didn't get blipped out to give up their new homes and in many cases new countries, friends, families, etc to go back to where they were pre-blip. Basically telling those who didn't get blipped out their last 5 years were irrelevant and meant nothing and they had to give up everything they achieved in that timeframe all so that those were just returned could return to what they new without any issue. The GRC seemingly was made up of the wealthy, and/or pre-blip elite, and those who who have just returned and no one who they were now displacing with their vote. The Flagsmashers were protesting a return to the pre-blip status quo and the manner in which it was being done.

I will agree that they could have done a bit more to make this clear. Karli was right in theory, but villainous in methodology. It's quite possible editing out the virus aspect had a big impact on this aspect.

This is the third post endgame installment we've had from Marvel and this is this first time the actual un-blip was addressed. Spiderman treated it as no big deal really, WandaVision i don't recall mentioning it, and now this. This would be the reality. Perhaps the virus version takes it head on more, i don't know. But to me, that'd be the only issue with this. Other than that, it was excellent.
See, I read it a little differently, but maybe I misunderstood.

My take was that the GRC was kinda like the U.N. During the 5 years, countries had adapted to losing half their population, and it's possible that borders shifted. Then all of a sudden, 3B people pop back into existence, and they need somewhere to go, jobs to do, food to eat, etc., but the entire world's infrastructure had been adjusted for an existence without those people. So, their sudden appearance necessarily upset the balance that had been set up, and many of those people who came back were in refugee camps, without places to go, or at least to where the GRC was still gradually trying to figure out where they should go, but moving slowly. Towards that end, they'd do things like shift borders to make space for the new people, etc.

Sam's speech at the end was more about how the folks at the top were too concerned with maintaining their own comfort, status quo, and power, and were unwilling to use their power to really help the people who needed it.

The Flag Smashers (adapted from a really, really goofy "supervillain" who just was kind of an anti-UN) wanted to abolish the GRC and world governments, and would commit violence to do it. Their methods grew from disruptive to lethal, and in doing so, became inexcusable, but Sam's point was that they came from a real place and real need that the governments of the world were unwilling to meet. A big part of his argument to the Senator was that without people in the room who had a different perspective -- like those of the refugees -- it was too easy to ignore their real needs and focus on the needs of the powerful to retain their power.

As I understand it, this is drawn from the comics where Sam operates as Captain America (and before Steve comes back to take the shield again, because he always does). He's apparently a much more...hmm....disruptive Captain America who really stands up for the powerless, rather than being a protector of the U.S. government (and thus, the powerful). I'm really looking forward to where this goes, and I think it's awesome that Sam's the new Cap. Walker being USAgent was pretty much what I expected. Not sure what they'll do with Bucky, though. In the comics, he, too, operates as Cap for a bit. Dunno what he does after that, though. I haven't really looked into it.
 

cboath

Master Member
Yeah, people moved, borders shifted, and people were working more as one an not 182 individual countries. The sudden re-emergence of 3B massively disrupted that and the GRC wanted to maintain their lofty status and didn't put people in the room that were affected by their decisions and largely didn't seem to care. They were going to undo everything or a large part of what transpired in the past 5 years.

This really would have benefitted hugely from an intro card or two...

"....after Thanos snapped out 3B people, this happened...."
"...after that was undone, this happened and this was the result....'

As i said perhaps it was editing out the virus stuff, but the viewer has to do too much work to understand the flagsmasher side of things. It's there, if you look, but not very clear.
 

Solo4114

Master Member
I kinda got the flagsmasher thing, but the details of it all were fuzzy. Flagsmashers wanted the refugees treated humanely and taken care of, and the GRC wasn't doing that. The "why" of it all was where things got murky.
 

harrisonp

Sr Member
My biggest gripe with the Flag Smashers thing was the segue between episode 5 and 6 left me feeling like I missed something. I get that they hit the GRC with a cyber attack, but the way it was edited had everyone in different positions than they had been as episode 5 ended without much explanation about them getting to those spots. The episode kind of felt like a bomb had/was about to go off but they never directly addressed what exactly was going on.
 

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firesprite

Master Member
It was mentioned in WandaVision as part of Monica Rambeau's storyline.
This is the third post endgame installment we've had from Marvel and this is this first time the actual un-blip was addressed. Spiderman treated it as no big deal really, WandaVision i don't recall mentioning it, and now this. This would be the reality. Perhaps the virus version takes it head on more, i don't know. But to me, that'd be the only issue with this. Other than that, it was excellent.

They literally showed Monica recorporating from being snapped out of existence and the chaos that ensued inside the hospital as people reappeared.
 

Inquisitor Peregrinus

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
And, to be fair, the whole Westview Incident occurred after Wanda reincorporated and discovered what had been being done with Vision's body over the past several years, on top of her very-immediately-fresh sense of loss and grief, because -- for her -- he had just died. Twice. By her hand and Thanos'. I'm curious if WandaVision would have happened if she hadn't been snapped, and could have grieved over his body properly -- maybe to the point of working with Wakanda to keep it from being taken, as he was made from black-market Wakandan vibranium...
 

kcail1

Active Member
Well,I gotta say, I REALLY enjoyed this series, but there were some problems that the aborted Flag Smashers storyline that kept this thing from being better. It really showed here in the finale.

Until now, I'd have to give the show an A with the Bucky & Sam story, a B+ with the John Walker story, an A with the Isaiah Bradley story, & a C for the Flag Smashers.

All those grades stand, except the Flag Smashers, which drops to a D-. I can applaud the powers that be for what they were able to salvage, but that doesn't make it good, & the editing for anything involving them in this finale felt very disjointed.

Not hating on it or anything, but those were my takeaways.
I do think things were rushed but I bet it was because of the pandemic they had to truncate many parts of the story line. I think they did the best they could.
 

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The Brahma Bull

Sr Member
Watched the series and it was OK. Didn't get the hype. I really like Mackie and Stan, but besides that it was nothing really special. Mackie takes Black Panthers part in the MCU and thats great because Wakanda and Black Panther failed for me.
 

Mistah J DSM

New Member
I don't like how chummy Sam and Bucky were with John Walker. It came across to me like it was a little more than just "cooperating to achieve a means to an end". They should told JW "Uh yeah thanks for the help but get the hell out of here cos you is a COLD BLOODED MURDERER!"
So I assume you felt the same way about Hawkeye going on a 5 year murder spree between IW and End Game....
 

NakedMoleRat

Master Member
Watched the series and it was OK. Didn't get the hype. I really like Mackie and Stan, but besides that it was nothing really special. Mackie takes Black Panthers part in the MCU and thats great because Wakanda and Black Panther failed for me.
I enjoyed Black Panther, sure, it was a remake of Lion King, but done well.
 

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