Swordmaking advice

[Fangoroth]

I hope I have this in the right place, kinda new to looking for help on forums. I'm a relative newbie to propsmithing, having only half finished one helmet thus far. BUT it never hurts to think ahead. A couple of my projects involve curved blades, but I'm having trouble finding any reliable sources, and wanted some input from those with more knowledge. Unfortunately I am a stickler for accuracy, which makes everything more complicated.

The first method I've considered is detailed here How to make a sturdy Ninja sword for Halloween . Take a length of PVC pipe, fill with sand and curve to my liking with a heat gun, and then compress to the desired width. The problems I foresee are sealing the blade tip, perfecting the shape, and possible durability. is this method viable as a prop, or in smaller scale for use as a foam core? And if I were to compress the blade to the right width, and fill with a sheet of fiberglass and resin, would that add any durability, or just destroy it?

I have also been advised to attempt making the blade out of wood, but wood would, to my knowledge, become quite easily broken at ~5ish mm thickness, and I want whatever I make to last. Though making a master out of wood and then casting with resin is something I have considered, but I believe I have heard it is inadvisable.

And the final method I am aware of ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAjOTUEQIAc ) is making a fiberglass sword blank out of sheets, resin, and a thin core of some sort ( Not sure if it is needed or not) . Then blank could eventually be shaped down on a belt sander, painted, and then fitted in a handle. Unfortunately, the only thing I could think to use as a core is a cut piece of sheet aluminum or steel, which I am ill equipped to make.

It would be nice to find a method that involves casting for easy reproduction and sale, but I'm not holding my breath. Haven't had any luck finding info on casting something like this using fiberglass and resin. And if possible, I would like to find a way to make a usable core for foam swords, as I do occasionally like to fight with this kind of thing at cons that allow it.

For those interested in what the projects are, I want to make Bakuzan ( http://24.media.tumblr.com/d76f9788972435b397e8eeee95fcb0bb/tumblr_muhbryDCoY1snr2hho2_500.gif ) from Kill la Kill, and Jetstream Sam's Murasame from Metal Gear Rising ( http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130119004910/metalgear/images/6/69/Mgrr-murasama-sword.jpg ). Thankfully all the other blades I intend to make are straight edged. Any help I can find would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[Shendorion]

I think you're going to find that schedule 40 PVC pipe without any additional reinforcement is plenty durable, unless you plan on hitting people with the thing. People make bows out of the stuff.

The trick is heating it just enough to shape it, and no more. Overheating weakens it and makes it brittle. As long as the width of the pipe is right for the job, getting the shape right should be easy because you can reheat and reshape if you don't like the initial results. As far as sealing the end, you can cut it, file a 45 degree groove into the cut end, and gently heat the end. The pipe end will pucker inward (you can assist it with gloved fingers if it doesn't on its own,) and seal it with a strip of two part epoxy putty. If you use the green stuff they use for tabletop gaming miniatures, it'll be almost as flexible as the pipe, so no worries about it flaking off if you flex the pipe.

 

[Fangoroth]

So what would you think, start applying pressure and just heat until it starts to give? Never really touched PVC crafting before. And is it durable enough for general wear and tear?

 

[Fangoroth]

Boredom bump

 

[Shendorion]

Heat it slowly and evenly with the heat gun until it starts to flex under its own weight. You'll know if you over heat it - it'll get brown and bubbly.

Do the curve of the blade first, because reheating it after flattening it will cause it to swell back into tubular shape.

For some good, detailed advice you could go to youtube and do a keyword search for "backyard bowyer." His series on making the Tauriel bow probably has everything you need to know, demonstrated and very well explained.

 

[JPH]

why not use 1/8th inch thick aluminum? You can buy strips of aluminum (4 inches x 60 inches x 0.125inches) and just cut out the profile to the blade you choose. Use a band saw or even a dremel, then file to smooth out the curve... keep the blade part blunt so no one freaks out that it is a weapon.

 

[bookface]

If you particularly wanted to use wood then you can always cover it with epoxy resin and a really lightweight fibreglass cloth. That should make it rock hard.

 

[Fangoroth]

Heat it slowly and evenly with the heat gun until it starts to flex under its own weight. You'll know if you over heat it - it'll get brown and bubbly.

Do the curve of the blade first, because reheating it after flattening it will cause it to swell back into tubular shape.

For some good, detailed advice you could go to youtube and do a keyword search for "backyard bowyer." His series on making the Tauriel bow probably has everything you need to know, demonstrated and very well explained.

I'll definitely have to check that out. And I had figured I would curve it first for that very reason.

why not use 1/8th inch thick aluminum? You can buy strips of aluminum (4 inches x 60 inches x 0.125inches) and just cut out the profile to the blade you choose. Use a band saw or even a dremel, then file to smooth out the curve... keep the blade part blunt so no one freaks out that it is a weapon.

Unfortunately the cons in my area seem to be very strict about metal weapons. Or metal in general. Even saw a guy wearing a metal gauntlet taking some flack from the staff. But if it were to be the core of a fiberglass sword blank, that could work.

If you particularly wanted to use wood then you can always cover it with epoxy resin and a really lightweight fibreglass cloth. That should make it rock hard.

That's something I genuinely hadn't considered. I'll have to keep that one in mind.

 

[Fangoroth]

I suppose while more complex blades are on my mind, if I were to make a large, complex looking blade, and I wanted to mold and cast it, what would it be best to cast with for the sake of durability? Is there a resin strong enough to stand up to everyday wear and tear? is it possible to apply fiberglass and resin so the inner walls of the mold for structure, seal the two halves, and fill with regular resin? Or would I be restricted to cutting and shaping wood for the crazier stuff?

An example of the kind of complex weapon I'm referring to http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131225111916/kill-la-kill/images/6/61/Scissorblade.jpg

 

[bookface]

The problem you'll encounter with resin is that it will be way too heavy. You can use a flexible foam similar to this How to Make Prop Movie or Fantasy Swords out of Flexible Foam

The other option would be one you've mentioned and using fibreglass and then seal the two halves, just without then filling it with resin.

 

[Fangoroth]

The problem you'll encounter with resin is that it will be way too heavy. You can use a flexible foam similar to this How to Make Prop Movie or Fantasy Swords out of Flexible Foam

The other option would be one you've mentioned and using fibreglass and then seal the two halves, just without then filling it with resin.

I had actually been so focused on making thin blades that I completely forgot about that tutorial. And if I did make a replica scissor, I would surely want to hit someone with it. Only problem would be getting a core into the blade, but I could probably cast the blade section in rubber and the handle in resin, possibly using a slush cast or something.

One question though, when you say heavy, do you mean heavy as in as heavy as a solid hardwood piece, or heavy as in comparable to steel? Because personally I like my weapons to have some heft to them.

Edit: When using this method, is it possible to say, place down some foam bits on the inside, lay a core on top around the half way point, then place the other half on and then fill? That way the core is completely encased, does not have to be wiggled in through the pour hole, and can be precisely placed where I want it? Or would the liquid foam not react well to the bits already in there? I hate to make everything so complicated, but sometimes complicated ideas are how new techniques are born.

 

[Fangoroth]

Boredom bamp

 

[HelloKnightmare]

I tried the fiberglass method with my swords, I think it really does need some kind of core to hold on to since fiberglass becomes brittle and the blade is quite thin. I also have a 6mm thick wooden katana blade, it seems sturdy enough to use as a prop (just a prop though) as long as you follow the wood's grain.

 

[Fangoroth]

I tried the fiberglass method with my swords, I think it really does need some kind of core to hold on to since fiberglass becomes brittle and the blade is quite thin. I also have a 6mm thick wooden katana blade, it seems sturdy enough to use as a prop (just a prop though) as long as you follow the wood's grain.

I'm just trying to find the method that is most easily reproduced with the highest durability, because unfortunately I can't trust the universe to not break my stuff for fun.

 

[HelloKnightmare]

I'm just trying to find the method that is most easily reproduced with the highest durability, because unfortunately I can't trust the universe to not break my stuff for fun.

...I see, try bookface's wood and fiberglass method? Since fiberglass alone can chip at the really thin parts.

 

[Fangoroth]

...I see, try bookface's wood and fiberglass method? Since fiberglass alone can chip at the really thin parts.

Did not know that. That's one I've been considering, but in the end there's no substitute for taking the materials, and hitting them on stuff to see how they react. Overall though I have some better ideas as to what I can do than I did before.

 

[Fangoroth]

Time for another round of random theory questions. I've considered, instead of reshaping handles out of wood every single time, making the original piece out of wood and plastic detailing, and then possibly molding and doing a solid cast of the handle section. My question for that though, is if I were to make a 3 piece mold ( 1 for each side, and one for the top with the hollow section ) would the material that gets poured into the hole need to be reinforced with something like a thin sheet of plastic? Or is your average silicon mold material sturdy enough as long as the master is coated in some sort of release agent? And just for clarification, I don't mean just a small hole, but a 7-8 inch section.

 

[Fangoroth]

Bumpity bump-bump

 

[dino8836]

Hi. Have you looked into just buying a wooden training sword from a martial arts store? My wooden bokken (samurai katana) only cost about $30AUS. It is a little thicker than normal (to take a beating) but would be easy to 'plane down'.

Sorry my message is not relating to molding etc, but might help out.

 

[Alexfx]

I suppose while more complex blades are on my mind, if I were to make a large, complex looking blade, and I wanted to mold and cast it, what would it be best to cast with for the sake of durability? Is there a resin strong enough to stand up to everyday wear and tear? is it possible to apply fiberglass and resin so the inner walls of the mold for structure, seal the two halves, and fill with regular resin? Or would I be restricted to cutting and shaping wood for the crazier stuff?

An example of the kind of complex weapon I'm referring to http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131225111916/kill-la-kill/images/6/61/Scissorblade.jpg

fibreglass isn't given as good a rep as it deserves sometimes, if you make a two part mould for a sword from silicone, you can put a few thin layers of fibreglass into each side of the mould, and join the two sides with a nice squish of resin and chopped strand, this will make an incredibly tough blade, and because it is hollow you can either leave it so it's nice and light, there would be no need to fill a fibreglass piece with another resin, fibreglass will happily do the job on its own, if you're feeling really crazy though, you could try inserting a thin steel armature as a kind of rebar before you do the final squish of the two sides, it'll chip if you go hitting walls with it, but so would any other material anyway!