Superman: Legacy

I hate to disagree with you pal, but that is not the Superman I want to see….the whole anxious, scared, and depressed “being Superman sucks, man” trope from Superman Returns to Man of Steel is not the Superman I want to see.

Give me the Fleischer Superman, Donner Superman, and Golden Age Superman, please.

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I really hope that the current Wet Suit Superman returns the character to classic form.
Interesting! I've never looked at that song like that. I've always taken it as an introspective of the man who is the savior of so many, just wanting to stay grounded and being ok with the fact that even though he's Superman to the world, he's just Clark to himself, with feelings, needs, and aspirations like Humanity.
 
Interesting! I've never looked at that song like that. I've always taken it as an introspective of the man who is the savior of so many, just wanting to stay grounded and being ok with the fact that even though he's Superman to the world, he's just Clark to himself, with feelings, needs, and aspirations like Humanity.

Yeah, I never took the meaning of the song to be anything other than “poor me, I’m Superman…”
 
Interesting! I've never looked at that song like that. I've always taken it as an introspective of the man who is the savior of so many, just wanting to stay grounded and being ok with the fact that even though he's Superman to the world, he's just Clark to himself, with feelings, needs, and aspirations like Humanity.
I haven't heard the song at all, so naturally I'll opine. :p

I like to think Superman has broad shoulders, enough to bear the lacrimae mundi without complaint. The idea that he can save the world but he's too weak to save himself doesn't wash with me.
 
I haven't heard the song at all, so naturally I'll opine. :p

I like to think Superman has broad shoulders, enough to bear the lacrimae mundi without complaint. The idea that he can save the world but he's too weak to save himself doesn't wash with me.
Another interesting observation. Again, I’ve never looked at it like that.

I’ve looked at it as how we all at times can be introspective of ourselves. Sometimes we carry large burdens, and other times we carry the burdens of others. They may look at us as having it all together, while inside we know our personal foibles.

Does having them make us weak?

I think a hero is the one who has them, but is not hindered by them. And expressing that you have them does not mean that you are consumed by them.

Those are just my thoughts, again I appreciate what each of you have shared as well.
 
Another interesting observation. Again, I’ve never looked at it like that.

I’ve looked at it as how we all at times can be introspective of ourselves. Sometimes we carry large burdens, and other times we carry the burdens of others. They may look at us as having it all together, while inside we know our personal foibles.

Does having them make us weak?

I think a hero is the one who has them, but is not hindered by them. And expressing that you have them does not mean that you are consumed by them.

Those are just my thoughts, again I appreciate what each of you have shared as well.
I hear ya, my take is that would be a fascinating side of any character or hero who shoulders great burdens, except Superman. To me, his only weakness is kryptonite.
 
I hear ya, my take is that would be a fascinating side of any character or hero who shoulders great burdens, except Superman. To me, his only weakness is kryptonite.
So then, when Jonathan Kent died, he shrugged it off and said to himself “no big!”

If Martha was in trouble, it wouldn’t bother him?

And he would never fall in love with Lois Lane, because that would be a weakness!

That is not a criticism of your point, I’m only looking to explore it a little more.
 
So then, when Jonathan Kent died, he shrugged it off and said to himself “no big!”

If Martha was in trouble, it wouldn’t bother him?

And he would never fall in love with Lois Lane, because that would be a weakness!

That is not a criticism of your point, I’m only looking to explore it a little more.
When Pa Kent dies, he's still a teenager, and he hasn't grown into the role yet.

As for Ma and Lois, I didn't mean to imply that he can't feel at all; just that self-pity would be beneath him. I don't see him as the least bit self-indulgent. In fact, he's strong enough to sacrifice his own feelings to help others--Exhibit A would be wiping Lois's memory at the end of Superman II because sharing him with the world is too painful for her. Admittedly this makes Lois seem pretty self-indulgent, but then again she's not Superman.
 
Very interesting--apparently Chris Gore (of Film Threat) spoke to a second person who was at the Warner screening, and that person was very lukewarm about the film. Also, I just watched the five-minute preview, and I'm underwhelmed. The bantering robots were just godawful. Krypto was cute though.

Anyway, here's Gore and Nerdrotic discussing the film, James Gunn, what happened at Cinemacon, and other stuff (with an oddly quiet X-Ray Girl):

 
Maybe it's just my terribly lowered expectations. But Chris Gore's info left me feeling encouraged about the movie.
 
Reminds me of the Fury Road pre-release rumors and reshoots. Maybe it's a good thing
Reshoots are the deathknell for the film if you believe some people on this board.
Anytime a Marvel film undergoes reshoots there are instant calls of "this film will tank" "box office bomb, mark my words".
Just wondering if the same hate for Marvel will be laid on this latest offering from DC?
 
The poison is in the dosage.

A few days of reshoots:
"Let's improve the jump-scare when Richard Dreyfuss is finding the shark tooth in the hull of the fishing boat."

A few months of reshoots:
"The audience didn't like watching Fleabag embarrassing Indiana Jones for 2 hours. We have to start over on the movie."
 
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The poison is in the dosage.

A few days of reshoots:
"Let's improve the jump-scare when Richard Dreyfuss is finding the shark tooth in the hull of the fishing boat."

A few months of reshoots:
"The audience didn't like watching Fleabag embarrassing Indiana Jones for 2 hours. We have to start over on the movie."

Yeah, it depends. Reshoots are common and always have been, because no matter how well you prepare and how carefully you shoot, the editing room will always surprise you. And the whole point of test screenings is to spot problems for potential recuts or reshoots.

In the case of the Jaws shoot mentioned by Batguy, that was done in the editor's backyard pool.

And the bigger the budget, the likelier it is there will be extensive reshoots. Because studios today fall for the sunk cost fallacy every time. Batgirl was the exception, not the rule. But it wasn't always that way.

There was a time when studios murdered movies in their cribs all the time.

I was on a picture long ago that got shut down by Paramount two weeks into production, because of another picture that was out of control. Our picture was called Arrive Alive, and we were shooting in South and Central Florida.

Unfortunately (for us), Days of Thunder was also shooting in Florida (Daytona), and it was wildly overbudget and behind schedule, and still shooting with its release date inexorably closing in.

On our show, Paramount watched dailies for two weeks and concluded that Willem Dafoe wasn't funny. So they fired him and recast Martin Short. And our director, who had already spent our entire $13M budget in preproduction, walked off the movie because he didn't want to work with Short. So we had no star and no director.

So Paramount shut us down rather than have a second out-of-control disaster unfold in Florida. We were all devastated, but after 35 years of hindsight, I realize Paramount made the sensible move there.

Studios today should do more pulling the plug on Arrive Alive and Batgirl and less releasing Snow White no matter what.
 
Very true.

I think the sunk-cost fallacy does more damage these days because they are doing such high-profile projects. Disney couldn't pull the plug on a Snow White remake without some embarrassment. (Yeah, the movie went on to embarrass them even more, but to be fair I think the production mess & bad viral buzz went beyond anybody's expectations.)

In this era every big movie is part of a franchise. Sequel, prequel, reboot, etc. So it practically always has some visibility & expectations built in before it starts. How would Universal go about trash-canning Fast & Furious #19 when they are $110m into it?

The best candidates for it are movies like Batgirl where it's at least the start of a run, not the middle of one. IMO it's pretty clear that the 'Captain America' reboot should have been canned earlier too. But of course it's a judgement issue too. If they had the judgement to scrap these movies partway through the shoot, then they would have also never started them. At least not in these overbudget dubious forms.


But a lot of these famous trainwrecks lately . . . these shows never passed the cost/profit analysis in the first place.

The studios keep green-lighting $250m movies that were barely going to sell $500m (which only gets them $250m) if they were good. Then they add on another $150m worth of reshoots (because the script arrived on the same day as the wrap party). So it becomes a $400m movie. Then they spend $200m on promoting it (to counter-act the bad press from the reshooting). They end up with $600m sunk into a movie that still can't sell $600m worth of tickets. Total bomb for the studio.
 
Very true.

I think the sunk-cost fallacy does more damage these days because they are doing such high-profile projects. Disney couldn't pull the plug on a Snow White remake without some embarrassment. (Yeah, the movie went on to embarrass them even more, but to be fair I think the production mess & bad viral buzz went beyond anybody's expectations.)

In this era every big movie is part of a franchise. Sequel, prequel, reboot, etc. So it practically always has some visibility & expectations built in before it starts. How would Universal go about trash-canning Fast & Furious #19 when they are $110m into it?

The best candidates for it are movies like Batgirl where it's at least the start of a run, not the middle of one. IMO it's pretty clear that the 'Captain America' reboot should have been canned earlier too. But of course it's a judgement issue too. If they had the judgement to scrap these movies partway through the shoot, then they would have also never started them. At least not in these overbudget dubious forms.


But a lot of these famous trainwrecks lately . . . these shows never passed the cost/profit analysis in the first place.

The studios keep green-lighting $250m movies that were barely going to sell $500m (which only gets them $250m) if they were good. Then they add on another $150m worth of reshoots (because the script arrived on the same day as the wrap party). So it becomes a $400m movie. Then they spend $200m on promoting it (to counter-act the bad press from the reshooting). They end up with $600m sunk into a movie that still can't sell $600m worth of tickets. Total bomb for the studio.
Exactly. I wonder what the shareholders think of these sinkholes, and whether they'd prefer the studio just pulled the plug and cut the losses, as opposed to doubling or tripling down just to save face. I know I would if I held Disney stock. Though I'd prefer Comcast right now if I wanted a piece of a studio. Universal doesn't seem to be having the same issues as Warner or Disney, and what's more they're spinning off their underperforming TV channels. I think they should spin off their entire TV division, but that's just me.
 
You could do a lot worse than Universal. They seem more willing to pick their battles. They will pile money into whatever is hot, and not try to reboot stuff that isn't. That's why they have made a lot of 'Jurassic'. And who else would have turned 'Fast & Furious' into a long list of $200m movies?

What Universal has not been doing, is making bad reboots of 'Jaws' or 'ET' or 'The Blues Brothers'. Or somehow getting around Bob Zemeckis and rebooting 'Back to the Future' (There's probably a way. They did a Saturday cartoon show in the early 1990s). Disney would be trying this kind of stuff and failing hard. Bad choices of projects + wrong creatives in charge.
 
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Hearing that they are doing reshoots this close to release is concerning.
I recall reading somewhere, a lot of big movie these days, have extra shooting days already planned? And honestly reshoots aren't bad. Sometimes a scene just needs an extra something, that becomes apparent in the edit, so they go back shoot it differently.

But sometimes extensive reshoots signals that there are problems.
 
I recall reading somewhere, a lot of big movie these days, have extra shooting days already planned? And honestly reshoots aren't bad. Sometimes a scene just needs an extra something, that becomes apparent in the edit, so they go back shoot it differently.

But sometimes extensive reshoots signals that there are problems.

George Lucas made a habit of it. He would plan a few days of reshoots in the original schedule.
 
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