Stranger Things (Netflix)

Mottrex

Sr Member
I genuinely wonder if the gap came from a pause in production where they made a somewhat last minute decision that this wouldn’t be the last season, and then adjusted the final episodes accordingly.

I still contend that this show has more heart, guts, and originality than just about any show or movie that's come out in the last decade. There were some nitpicks I had but nothing that took me out of the story or lessened it's impact or meaning. Overall I thought it was fantastic. Though I am glad the series will be wrapping up next season, even if that's a few years from now.
It's Still the best show of its kind..
I think the Pandemic may have influenced a few decisions along the way but I'd rather have ST than not..
I think the next gap will be interesting again as they will have to shift the time period and the age of the characters.. Maybe Max will become a New conduit to the Upside-down living in a Care facility, she got quite broken physically and mentally after all.
I did feel that Steve was like a Gandalf character overseeing his companions and with those overseeing eyes, which I thought was nice and grew him as a character..
I think I associate most with Steve as a character..
 
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renaissance_man

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The Demogorgans and Mindflayer were better villains, unrelenting, near unstoppable creatures just trying to survive to my mind is scarrier than a gooey man who steals souls, which for some unexplained reason makes your body levitate.
 

harrisonp

Sr Member
My biggest gripe about Vecna is that he is now retconned in as being the creator of the Upside Down as we know it, as well as having built the Mind Flayer. If Henry had found opportunity in this strange world by being taken under the wing of an ancient evil and becoming its right hand then I would like the whole set-up better.

All of my posts in this thread should come with the understanding that I really do like and appreciate the show. They’ve got a great crop of characters who I’m always glad to see, and while it’s all clearly homage at least it’s not them flogging some 40 year old franchise with reboots and remakes. ST is inspiration done right IMO. Take the things you loved elsewhere and mash them all together into something familiar but new.
 

CB2001

Master Member
["Help me understand... Max died and was the 4th victim that Vecna needed. The 4 gates opened and Hawkins was about to be destroyed. But Eleven brought Max back to life (somehow), but the gates remained open and Hawkins is still about to be destroyed? Seems to me if Eleven saved Max, the opening of the gates would have been prevented and just been an earthquake?"]

Brenner told Eleven that Vecna consumes "everything they are, were or ever will be." Essentially, it's not just destroying the body, but if I had to use a term that best fits, I guess "lifeforce", or whatever makes a person a person, as well. A body is just basically flesh and bone. Without a personality, or maybe even a "soul" (if you're wanting to go to the philosophical here), then all El did was just restart the body, but what makes a person a person is gone (this is actually not quite different from real life, where if a person is dead for a certain period of time, they become brain dead. Even if the body is restarted or kept alive through artificial means, what made them who they are is gone. That's at best what I interpret it as). Essentially, whatever Vecna drains from them, its gone even if somehow the body is restarted. The car is running, but there's no one behind the wheel anymore.
 
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Usagi Pilgrim

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
My biggest gripe about Vecna is that he is now retconned in as being the creator of the Upside Down as we know it, as well as having built the Mind Flayer. If Henry had found opportunity in this strange world by being taken under the wing of an ancient evil and becoming its right hand then I would like the whole set-up better.

All of my posts in this thread should come with the understanding that I really do like and appreciate the show. They’ve got a great crop of characters who I’m always glad to see, and while it’s all clearly homage at least it’s not them flogging some 40 year old franchise with reboots and remakes. ST is inspiration done right IMO. Take the things you loved elsewhere and mash them all together into something familiar but new.
I've only watched one, but they are several theory videos out there that go all the way back to season 1 showing clues of Vecna's involvement/interference since the beginning.

Basically, they boil down to hearing the clock ticking or chiming at key points in the story. I believe there are a few more, like the numbering of the kids as well, but I'm not so sure they didn't have a backstory of the 'big bad' since the beginning.
 

Malibu139

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I agree with Psab keel and harrisonp the show in general - all seasons- is tops. Definitely some of my favorite entertainment over the last few years and it will always remind me of great times in life both as a kid and adult.

4th season for me was great. It was different and different sometimes doesn’t sit well (see season3). Just when a particular storyline was starting to get a tad long winded , it would cut over to Russia or to the group out west. It was edited so well.

Couple nitpicks for me were: the Kate Bush song on repeat and - my family thinks I am way off base on this one- but I felt Vecna explaining everything from the past all the way up to his future plans in a big monologue was a bit much. Maybe I just need a second viewing.

Loving the idea of a complete story arch for the series in season 5!
 

renaissance_man

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I've only watched one, but they are several theory videos out there that go all the way back to season 1 showing clues of Vecna's involvement/interference since the beginning.

Basically, they boil down to hearing the clock ticking or chiming at key points in the story. I believe there are a few more, like the numbering of the kids as well, but I'm not so sure they didn't have a backstory of the 'big bad' since the beginning.
The Duffer Brothers have been tinkering with old episodes on streaming, making physical media the only way to see the unaltered episodes. I'm not sure to what extent they have been tinkering but they have admitted to making changes.

Duffers Tinker with old episodes
 

Usagi Pilgrim

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The Duffer Brothers have been tinkering with old episodes on streaming, making physical media the only way to see the unaltered episodes. I'm not sure to what extent they have been tinkering but they have admitted to making changes.

Duffers Tinker with old episodes
Thanks for the article. I knew they'd went back to change Will's birthday, but wasn't aware of the other changes to the effects.

Still, I wonder if they made any changes that would affect the story?

Either way, season 4 was a great entry in the show's run, for me. I just didn't connect with 3 that much, & started 4 because of a sense of duty & being bored. By the end of the first episode, I was completely hooked.
 

CB2001

Master Member
Couple nitpicks for me were: the Kate Bush song on repeat and - my family thinks I am way off base on this one- but I felt Vecna explaining everything from the past all the way up to his future plans in a big monologue was a bit much. Maybe I just need a second viewing.

The monologue and revealing plan thing may have been intentionally done. The show tells a new story, but also throws back to classic tropes used in the 1980s films. So, Vecna basically monologuing and revealing his plans like a James Bond villain makes sense in that regard.
 

benhs1898

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I've only watched one, but they are several theory videos out there that go all the way back to season 1 showing clues of Vecna's involvement/interference since the beginning.

Basically, they boil down to hearing the clock ticking or chiming at key points in the story. I believe there are a few more, like the numbering of the kids as well, but I'm not so sure they didn't have a backstory of the 'big bad' since the beginning.
Episode 1, the Demogorgon gets into the Byers house because the door was telekinetically unlocked. They are never shown to be able to do that again. Vecna unlocked the door.
 

Malibu139

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The monologue and revealing plan thing may have been intentionally done. The show tells a new story, but also throws back to classic tropes used in the 1980s films. So, Vecna basically monologuing and revealing his plans like a James Bond villain makes sense in that regard.
If I can get on board with the tropes and everything from season 3 and love it - I guess I need to give a fair shake here too. It’s decided then, I need to watch the whole season again…. Lol
 

Wolfsburg

Master Member
Speaking of tropes, there is a theory out there that 001 is 11's father, who has been mentioned very little, if at all, that I recall. It posits that 11's mother, Teri Ives, would've conceived 11 during her time at the lab and Henry would've been 24 at the time of 11's birth in 1971, so certainly old enough for it to be a possibility. It'd be a little on the nose and I'm neither here nor there on this concept, but it certainly would ape a certain popular space fantasy franchise from the 80s. lol!

According to David Harbour, apparently the sword he used is the actual Atlantean sword prop Arnold wielded in Conan the Barbarian.

As for the final two episodes, I liked them pretty well and I agree this show has more heart and elicits more emotion than a lot of stuff I've seen anytime recently. Overall I think this was my favorite season since season 1. That said, I did think it was a bit of a cop out to kill Max off only to immediately bring her back to life. They had already done something similar with Hopper. Also, 11's ability to bring someone back to life seems to have come out of left field and had not been alluded to before. I liked Max and thought Sadie Sink did a great job this season, but I thought her survival felt a bit cheap. Just let people die and leave them dead!

I also have mixed feelings about the revelation that Vecna is actually the big bad. On the one hand, I did like that the Mindflayer/Upsidedown was more of an abstract, faceless force of nature that couldn't be talked to or reasoned with... but on the other, I can also appreciate the dramatic value of having a villain that has a face and can be directly interacted with, although that is a less imaginative and more mainstream approach. I truly would love to know if Vecna had been in the cards all along or if this is a retcon.

I thought everyone's reaction to Hopper being back seemed surprisingly muted, considering they all thought he was dead. Instead they just acted like he had just come back from a long trip (which is technically true lol).

I think Mike has has grown into one of my least favorite characters, considering how the series started. He just doesn't seem to contribute much and frankly just seems kinda dumb. I don't think Finn Wolfhard's performance is that great either, compared to the others. Conversely, I thought Noah Schnapp was great this season and his monologue to Mike was probably his best, although Mike is oblivious to the subtext and also doesn't seem to notice his best friend weeping right next to him. Lol! I do hope ever-suffering Will does finally find some happiness by the time everything is said and done!

I feel like 11's days are numbered, so maybe Will will finally have a shot! Lol!
 
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CB2001

Master Member
I think Mike has has grown into one of my least favorite characters, considering how the series started. He just doesn't seem to contribute much and frankly just seems kinda dumb. I don't think Finn Wolfhard's performance is that great either, compared to the others.
I think the Duffers stated that the idea for the upcoming spin-off was Finn’s idea. I could be wrong on that regard.
 

Wolfsburg

Master Member
I think the Duffers stated that the idea for the upcoming spin-off was Finn’s idea. I could be wrong on that regard.
Well, I'm referring to the character being a little dense, not Finn himself. I don't think Finn's performance really stacks up well, compared to the others though. Anyway, as I understood it, Finn guessed what their spinoff idea was, to their surprise.
 

Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
Sorry I meant Eddy as a newcomer was the wrong choice to die..
Max has had more time and memories certainly with El and I felt it was a slight cop out to bring her back from the dead ..

That's exactly what I thought. It had no impact even though I liked the character. Playing Master of Puppets to distract the bats was pretty sweet though!

Speaking of tropes, there is a theory out there that 001 is 11's father, who has been mentioned very little, if at all, that I recall. It posits that 11's mother, Teri Ives, would've conceived 11 during her time at the lab and Henry would've been 24 at the time of 11's birth in 1971, so certainly old enough for it to be a possibility. It'd be a little on the nose and I'm neither here nor there on this concept, but it certainly would ape a certain popular space fantasy franchise from the 80s. lol!

11! I AM your 1!
 

Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
My biggest gripe about Vecna is that he is now retconned in as being the creator of the Upside Down as we know it, as well as having built the Mind Flayer. If Henry had found opportunity in this strange world by being taken under the wing of an ancient evil and becoming its right hand then I would like the whole set-up better.

All of my posts in this thread should come with the understanding that I really do like and appreciate the show. They’ve got a great crop of characters who I’m always glad to see, and while it’s all clearly homage at least it’s not them flogging some 40 year old franchise with reboots and remakes. ST is inspiration done right IMO. Take the things you loved elsewhere and mash them all together into something familiar but new.

I'd have to rewatch but I was under the impression that Vecna/ Henry didn't create the Upside Down but was forced into it by 11, at which point he used what existed within it to his advantage and essentially becoming an evil god. When he first arrives he sees small Demigorgons running around and he sees the smoke monster which he molded into the Mind Flayer? I may have missed some pieces so I'd have to go back a clarify, but it seemed to me that at the least Henry entered the Upside Down, not that he created it.

While villians monologuing their evil plans is a cliche across all of film and television, regardless of genre, it's also not the worst I've seen, so Vecna's monologue was fine to me. Nothing exceptional, but nothing to really bother me either.
 

harrisonp

Sr Member
Yeah Henry found the UD as an untamed wilderness where the Demodogs/Gorgons were already existing, and then shaped the Mind Flayer. It was kind of unclear in that original post you quoted but it’s what I meant by “the Upside Down as we know it”.

I saw a post about the D&D lore surrounding Vecna and it has my gears turning with all sorts of theories for how the end game will go.
 

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