Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Joek3rr]

I fundamentally disagree with everything you said about Lukes charakter.

Not to mention that George wanted Luke to be a broken down man hiding from the galaxy. I think JJ was trying to change that. Rian decided to bring him closer to Luke's original concept, but with his own twist. When Michael Arndt was writing episode 7 Luke was being described like Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

Not to mention that George wanted Luke to be a broken down man hiding from the galaxy. I think JJ was trying to change that. Rian decided to bring him closer to Luke's original concept, but with his own twist. When Michael Arndt was writing episode 7 Luke was being described like Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now.

Lucas wanted Leia to be trained as a Jedi by Luke. And he would've killed Luke in IX. Hamill told what Lucas told him about Luke, but I've never read anything about a broken Luke that is hiding somewhere.

Lucas was closer to the EU.

 

[Joek3rr]

Lucas wanted Leia to be trained as a Jedi by Luke. And he would've killed Luke in IX. Hamill told what Lucas told him about Luke, but I've never read anything about a broken Luke that is hiding somewhere.

Lucas was closer to the EU.

Mark never says when when George said that. And according to Mark, George at one time would have had Luke turn evil post-ROTJ.

Phil Szostak was asked if Luke in the sequel trilogy was consistent or inspired by George's ideas. And answerd that it was.

And plus you can use a bit of deductive reasoning to figure it out. George and Kathy hired Michael to write Episode 7. It would seem that Michael used George's notes because for a time there was an adaptation of Darth Talon was being used in the story. (Apparently George had a thing for Twi'leks, and he liked Darth Talon)

Also George really started to contradict EU. Just look at The Clone Wars. When it was made Dave Filoni is saying how it's going to fit in with the EU. But then George would come along and be 'No we're going to do this instead'.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

“Because he had an outline for ‘7,’ ‘8,’ and ‘9.’ And it is vastly different to what they have done.” - Mark Hamill about why he wishes why Disney
should have acept Lucas guidance.

I'm out of this discussion now. I see no end. You like TLJ, I think it's a bad movie with a poor plot, nonsense characters mixed together by a untalented director, who knows it's bad, based on his reactions to critics.

 

[Joek3rr]

“Because he had an outline for ‘7,’ ‘8,’ and ‘9.’ And it is vastly different to what they have done.” - Mark Hamill about why he wishes why Disney
should have acept Lucas guidance.

I'm out of this discussion now. I see no end. You like TLJ, I think it's a bad movie with a poor plot, nonsense characters mixed together by a untalented director, who knows it's bad, based on his reactions to critics.

Do you choose to believe an actor who's only around part of the time? Or someone who was at the production meetings? The first of which had George Lucas present.

 

[Jaitea]

Things like this remind me that there is nothing that could have ever done to make the fans happy. They could have made the best movies ever in movie history, and there still be complaints.

That's exactly the point, they didn't, they had the chance to, but blew it
I'm hoping that Episode 9 is able to do something magical, BUT I'm prepared to jettison the ST into the Superman 3 & 4, Alien 3 & Resurrection, Joel Schumacher Batman Films & the DC Cinematic Universe area of films that were made that shouldn't have been

Although the Solo film wasn't great & perhaps shouldn't have been made either, it feels more Star Wars than the ST, so it along with Rogue One are the only two films I think that Disney/LFL have done well since Uncle George retired

I did enjoy TFA, but the film I won't mention tainted Ep7 so much that I can't watch more than 10 minutes of it now

I mean come on, the put Ben in dark clothes and mask, like that hasn't been done already..............Revan, Malgus, Nihilus, Momin

And the bad guys love starfighters with big solar wings.......Sith starfigters anyone?

And so they used x-wings some more...............XJ series x-wing?

I don't have a clue what & who you are talking about

Disney/LFL rushed into the production of the ST, they knew that the fanbase was split, they knew that there existed new smaller SW fanbase who just loved Star Wars, anything SW, they loved the OT, PT & Cartoons, but Disney wanted the general audience back, the folks who would go to see Star Wars wether they were fans or not. The next group they wanted to please was the OT fans, the ones were there at the beginning who dropped off because of the lacklustre PT films

TFA was a success because it ticked all 3 boxes, the way it did it was by giving us that old practical OT feeling,.....but like a can of cola left open for a while, it has lost it's fizz,..allowing fans to step back & see that they had seen the film before & it was a retread of ANH

Disney/LFL knew they had to have the vital ingredients in that film to kick start the franchise again

As much as I dislike the PT, at least it gave us new original ideas, new designs & worlds, building on what we knew, yes perhaps going back to Tatooine, but they also gave us so much more

The ST just doesn't have the same imagination

I'm looking forward to the new Jon Favreau series & the GOT guys projects, hopefully they will send us off somewhere new

J

 

[Joek3rr]

That's exactly the point, they didn't, they had the chance to, but blew it
I'm hoping that Episode 9 is able to do something magical, BUT I'm prepared to jettison the ST into the Superman 3 & 4, Alien 3 & Resurrection, Joel Schumacher Batman Films & the DC Cinematic Universe area of films that were made that shouldn't have been

Although the Solo film wasn't great & perhaps shouldn't have been made either, it feels more Star Wars than the ST, so it along with Rogue One are the only two films I think that Disney/LFL have done well since Uncle George retired

I did enjoy TFA, but the film I won't mention tainted Ep7 so much that I can't watch more than 10 minutes of it now



I don't have a clue what & who you are talking about

Disney/LFL rushed into the production of the ST, they knew that the fanbase was split, they knew that there existed new smaller SW fanbase who just loved Star Wars, anything SW, they loved the OT, PT & Cartoons, but Disney wanted the general audience back, the folks who would go to see Star Wars wether they were fans or not. The next group they wanted to please was the OT fans, the ones were there at the beginning who dropped off because of the lacklustre PT films

TFA was a success because it ticked all 3 boxes, the way it did it was by giving us that old practical OT feeling,.....but like a can of cola left open for a while, it has lost it's fizz,..allowing fans to step back & see that they had seen the film before & it was a retread of ANH

Disney/LFL knew they had to have the vital ingredients in that film to kick start the franchise again

As much as I dislike the PT, at least it gave us new original ideas, new designs & worlds, building on what we knew, yes perhaps going back to Tatooine, but they also gave us so much more

The ST just doesn't have the same imagination

I'm looking forward to the new Jon Favreau series & the GOT guys projects, hopefully they will send us off somewhere new

J

You really should read The Art of books. They've hired the best artist in the industry. The amount of creativity is really off the charts. But there's always the challenge of how to make it new, yet familiar. How to make it look like 30 years have passed, technology has changed. But it's still gotta have that Star Wars look.

Rian jokes in 'The Art of The Last Jedi'. If you want to make an easy 50 bucks. Go to one these art meetings, find someone who looks like they have a lot of money. Bet the person you can lock the room down for an hour in one discussion. Then ask the question, what makes something look Star Wars. After an hour, collect your 50 bucks.

Wait you don't know who Darth Revan is??????? I'm not sure I associate with you an more!

 

[Jaitea]

You really should read The Art of books. They've hired the best artist in the industry. The amount of creativity is really off the charts. But there's always the challenge of how to make it new, yet familiar. How to make it look like 30 years have passed, technology has changed. But it's still gotta have that Star Wars look.

Rian jokes in 'The Art of The Last Jedi'. If you want to make an easy 50 bucks. Go to one these art meetings, find someone who looks like they have a lot of money. Bet the person you can lock the room down for an hour in one discussion. Then ask the question, what makes something look Star Wars. After an hour, collect your 50 bucks.

Wait you don't know who Darth Revan is??????? I'm not sure I associate with you an more!

I have all the Art of books going back to 77 including all the new Disney/LFL except TLJ

They are full of excellent designs but it's sad to say that for some reason a lot of those great concepts don't get through to the films

I know a lot of friends here & on FB who could easily win that bet from Rian, ironic that he made the film that is least like Star Wars

J

 

[Joek3rr]

I have all the Art of books going back to 77 including all the new Disney/LFL except TLJ

They are full of excellent designs but it's sad to say that for some reason a lot of those great concepts don't get through to the films

I know a lot of friends here & on FB who could easily win that bet from Rian, ironic that he made the film that is least like Star Wars

J

Can I run off on a rabbit trail here?
I love that Luke's backpack is made from his orange flightsuit. I don't know why, but I love it!

Okay, I'm back. When you say TLJ is the lest Star Wars. What do you mean? Like the look, the general feel of it? And what does make a film "feel" Star Wars?

 

[Nitz146]

I said that many times, but here it goes again. I give zero crap about fan fiction, totally uninterested, yet I just by chance stumbled upon Thor Skywalker's "The Lost Jedi" fanfic on Youtube. I highly recommend it, you have to get past the first part, it's a bit too much fan-service wink wink there, but it does pick up and it showcases that these characters and the overall storyline had so much potential in a creative mind's hands after TFA which was kinda lukewarm without subverting any expectations.

I'm not a fan of fan fiction either however I watched his you tube story anyway. The part where Rey meets Luke actually brought tears to my eyes. We were seriously robbed of what could have been a great moment at the expense of a slapstick joke.
I loved Rey in TFA so I'm really really hoping JJ can redeem the potential she had in TFA for E9.

 

[niennumb1]

I'm not a fan of fan fiction either however I watched his you tube story anyway. The part where Rey meets Luke actually brought tears to my eyes. We were seriously robbed of what could have been a great moment at the expense of a slapstick joke.
I loved Rey in TFA so I'm really really hoping JJ can redeem the potential she had in TFA for E9.

Piggybacking on what you said about that moment, I felt that was a very pivotal part in the film. Something extremely special and the move they made in 8 handling that was a complete joke.

My perception of that moment (and this is ALL my opinion) was many many years had passed and Luke has, but lost hope himself. The moment he turned around to find Rey there holding his lightsaber was HUGE. She was the spark that would ignite this new hope in bringing the bad guys down and that he was going to take a moment to get his head out of the foggy abyss he had been in and those tears welting up in his eyes be the realization there's a chance and that he was going to take this seriously.

The Falcon was there. R2 and Chewie were there. Luke's SISTER sent Rey there. She had his lightasber that he hadn't seen since it was attached to his human hand on Bespin. These are some key pieces that cannot be ignored or taken lightly. Luke would have reacted differently, I just know he would have.

Time, tragedy and life can bring anyone down to a dark place and change a person, absolutely. These things, though. They are part of his history and hold sentiment. Further evidence can even be seen when he sees R2 for the first time in years. He is quick to say he won't go back, but the message from Leia's plea to Obi-wan spoke to him before he said, "That was a cheap move." Heck, look how much he lit up when he even SAW R2. He was far from gone.

That one singular moment was HUGE at the end of TFA. It was so poorly handled in that next moment thereafter. It should have been 2-3 years later with her well into training and skipping telling any story the second after TFA ended. That look in Luke's eyes at the end of the film encapsulated everything we needed to know at that time. Instead we got a Friday afternoon soap opera cliffhanger with a Monday episode continuation.

.... AND I just realized I ranted too long. Episode 9 needs to be special. I hope there is enough passage of time where the characters have grown and putting some mystery back into the mix while hopefully not meaninglessly killing off more old characters.

 

[Psab keel]

Lando is a goner. If it doesn't happen I will be shocked. Not that I want that to happen but killing off well loved characters seems to be the norm these days.

 

[CT1138]

Lando is a goner. If it doesn't happen I will be shocked. Not that I want that to happen but killing off well loved characters seems to be the norm these days.

 

[Cephus]

Rey is not a Mary Sue, there's is legitimate story reasons why she's able to do what she does (if I had 25 cents even time I've had to say that I would never have to work again)

Your beliefs tend not to be well respected around here, mostly because you are just wrong. Rey is absolutely a Mary Sue, she fits 100% of the trope characteristics. She does everything right all the time, the whole universe changes for her, she is perfect at things with no training, etc. That's the very definition of a Mary Sue. Luke had to work to become a Jedi, she just wandered into it and was successful the first time. She hopped in the Millenium Falcon and was an ace pilot the first time, outflying professional pilots. She knew more about fixing the Falcon than Han Solo did. She just so happened to wander into the exact right bar to find not only a lightsaber, but Luke's lightsaber. She has a destiny that guides the entire story around her. That is a Mary Sue. You are, as usual, wrong.

And yes Kylo WAS a knock off Vader. That was purposeful. Or have you forgotten that Snoke reprimanded him for "being a child in a mask"? And whiny he is, as was Anakin, and Luke, it runs in the family.

That's only because they recognized that everyone knew what they were doing. The whole reason Kylo is a carbon copy of Vader and Rey is a carbon copy of Luke is because they wouldn't know creativity if it bit them. TFA was just a copy of New Hope. It had all of the same tropes because J.J. Abrams couldn't be creative on a bet. It followed every single one of the same established pathways that Star Wars had already been done, it just did it worse.

And you like it. What does that tell you?

 

[Cephus]

Things like this remind me that there is nothing that could have ever done to make the fans happy. They could have made the best movies ever in movie history, and there still be complaints.

I mean come on, the put Ben in dark clothes and mask, like that hasn't been done already..............Revan, Malgus, Nihilus, Momin

And the bad guys love starfighters with big solar wings.......Sith starfigters anyone?

And so they used x-wings some more...............XJ series x-wing?

They absolutely could have done things to make the fans happy, lots of people have suggested in this very thread and threads like it what they could have done. They could have made this a hundred years in the future, with NEW characters, not copies of old characters, but totally NEW and ORIGINAL characters, characters that were not Mary Sues, were not copies of things that were already done, that told NEW stories in the same universe. Fans would have loved that. But instead, they just copied what had been done, spent far too much time playing "spot the nostalgia" and hoping that would make fans happy.

They failed.

 

[Jaitea]

Can I run off on a rabbit trail here?
I love that Luke's backpack is made from his orange flightsuit. I don't know why, but I love it!

Okay, I'm back. When you say TLJ is the lest Star Wars. What do you mean? Like the look, the general feel of it? And what does make a film "feel" Star Wars?

You are doing it again, swaying back to your favourite subject

So for just one more time I'm going to answer you,....the OT & PT feel like Star Wars because they are the creation of George, ROTJ & the PT feel a bit off because of Georges determination to do things his way without having to compromise to other creative persons,....the loss of Gary Kurtz's input can be felt on ROTJ
TFA was a homage to the OT, they worked hard to recapture that '77 feeling
TLJ, although re-enacting scenes from ESB & ROTJ, was purposefully different in tone from any of the other films

But really, c'mon, you should know what Star Wars should feel like, the same as you know what Coca Cola tastes like or your favourite food, if it tastes disgusting you'd complain wouldn't you

J

 

[sztriki]

I agree with Joek3rr, there would be no way to make everyone happy, especially in the age when people feel important and smart for complaining and nitpicking online. The key is to minimize that proportion. If 80% of your fanbase is happy with the product and looks forward to the next chapter then you have a success. Sure 20% said crap things and maybe a large chunk of that 20% is gone forever. But when half of your fanbase is unhappy and a large chunk of that turns away...well that’s another thing.
And no, I don’t have the statistical data to back these numbers up, was just for a demonstration, but anyone questioning that there’s a big split now is delusional.

 

[Joek3rr]

Your beliefs tend not to be well respected around here, mostly because you are just wrong. Rey is absolutely a Mary Sue, she fits 100% of the trope characteristics. She does everything right all the time, the whole universe changes for her, she is perfect at things with no training, etc. That's the very definition of a Mary Sue. Luke had to work to become a Jedi, she just wandered into it and was successful the first time. She hopped in the Millenium Falcon and was an ace pilot the first time, outflying professional pilots. She knew more about fixing the Falcon than Han Solo did. She just so happened to wander into the exact right bar to find not only a lightsaber, but Luke's lightsaber. She has a destiny that guides the entire story around her. That is a Mary Sue. You are, as usual, wrong.



That's only because they recognized that everyone knew what they were doing. The whole reason Kylo is a carbon copy of Vader and Rey is a carbon copy of Luke is because they wouldn't know creativity if it bit them. TFA was just a copy of New Hope. It had all of the same tropes because J.J. Abrams couldn't be creative on a bet. It followed every single one of the same established pathways that Star Wars had already been done, it just did it worse.

And you like it. What does that tell you?

Well she's not a Mary Sue. She being empowered by the Force to be Yin to Ben's Yang. My new example I like to use is, Rey could be quadriplegic and if it was the will of the Force she'd could have defeated Ben. I don't know why this hard for people to figure out. It's pretty blatantly stated.

And yes she's inspired by Luke or what became Luke

This is concept for a young female hero. George would gender swap and name him Luke Starkiller.

And they didn't change Ben because people complained about him a Vader knock off. Rian wrote TLJ before TFA was released, so unless he's a time lord...........

 

[Joek3rr]

You are doing it again, swaying back to your favourite subject

So for just one more time I'm going to answer you,....the OT & PT feel like Star Wars because they are the creation of George, ROTJ & the PT feel a bit off because of Georges determination to do things his way without having to compromise to other creative persons,....the loss of Gary Kurtz's input can be felt on ROTJ
TFA was a homage to the OT, they worked hard to recapture that '77 feeling
TLJ, although re-enacting scenes from ESB & ROTJ, was purposefully different in tone from any of the other films

But really, c'mon, you should know what Star Wars should feel like, the same as you know what Coca Cola tastes like or your favourite food, if it tastes disgusting you'd complain wouldn't you

J

So basically the only way to get that "feeling" would be to copy George's style? Which admittedly they have done. George loves his swipes and other odd transitions!

 

[sztriki]

I'm not a fan of fan fiction either however I watched his you tube story anyway. The part where Rey meets Luke actually brought tears to my eyes. We were seriously robbed of what could have been a great moment at the expense of a slapstick joke.
I loved Rey in TFA so I'm really really hoping JJ can redeem the potential she had in TFA for E9.

The part that was really powerful for me was Leia and Ren meeting. Such a missed opportunity inthe original film. This has so many aspects of TFA that were developed: Finn’s injury, Knights of Ren, Snoke, Maz Kanata has stuff to do, Leia and Ren, Vader’s mask...allthis developed in interesting new directions without subverting expectations and feeling stale or derivative.
Relatig back to Ep9 I wonder if JJ is still gonna go through some of his original concepts (if he had any) or had to rewrite from scratch after TLJ.