Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

According to this comic, Rey doesn’t need any training to become more powerful than Anakin or Luke. I think it’s clear that this is just terrible writing. To say this isn’t a Mary Sue is now impossible to deny.

Having read the article, and just binged the comic yesterday now that the fourth and final issue is out, I can say they almost, but not quite, utterly misrepresent the miniseries and Rey's part in it. She's not going on scavenging missions. The remnants of the Resistance are hiding on Anoat, which is one of several garbage dump planets in known space. She's going out junking because it's her fallback when she gets stir-crazy. As for her Force abilities... Um... No...?

When the story opens, she's trying to use the Force on a big trash monster she's fighting, and she's having trouble getting it to work, and realizes it's because she picked the fight so she could use the Force to smack down a monster. Purity of motive and all that. Later, Leia has brought her with to Mon Cala as she undertakes to try and enlist their assistance. The Quarren, as usual, are being isolationist, xenophobic dicks. One of the two clear uses of the Force in the series is when Rey uses it to shove a Quarren back who's about to shoot Leia. The other is a TLJ-like "save my friends" instinctive move where she flings a crate of explosives out of the Falcon just before it goes off, while simultaneously piling up a few other crates to shield her friends. She might be using it in an internal way in a few places, to jump higher or throw her staff harder.

In the article, where they refer to her throwing her staff like a boomerang? Yeah, no. Not that I saw. There's one panel where she might be using the Force to spin it above her, baton-like, to take out the Quarren surrounding her, but the presentation is unclear. She might just as easily be, y'know, spinning it baton-like. They also refer to her having no trouble with the Jedi texts, even without a translator. Um, one, they're not referred to at all in the miniseries. And two, Threepio? Of his now seven million forms of communication, I figure Archaic Basic or whatever is probably in the first thousand.

 

[ConvergencePro]

Ginger ale for me please

Oh boy, where to start. Let me try this.

"What do you know about the Force?"
"It's a power that Jedi have that lets them control people and make things float."
"Impressive. Every word in that sentence was wrong. Lesson one, sit here, legs crossed. The Force is not a power you have. It's not about lifting rocks.* It's the energy between all things, a tension, a balance, that binds the universe together."
"OK. But what is it?"
"Close your eyes. Breathe. Now, reach out."
"I feel something."
"You feel it?"
"Yes, I feel it."
"It's the Force."
"Wow, it must be really strong with you."
"I've never felt anythi----OW! You meant reach out like.... I'll try again."
"Breathe. Just breathe. Reach out with your feelings. What do you see?"
"The island. Life. Death and decay, that feeds new life. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence."
"And between it all?"
"Balance. And energy. A Force."
"And inside you?"
"Inside me the same Force."

*let's add spinning your staff with the Force and mind tricking people to that list.

“The Force is really a way of seeing; it’s a way of being with life... ...The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us. You have to come to learn it. It’s not something you just get. It takes many, many years…Anyone who studied and worked hard could learn it. But you would have to do it on your own.” - George Lucas

"I am no Jedi, but I know the Force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes. Feel it. The light. It's always been there.(that's 19 years) It will guide you.

"Something inside me has always been there."(again that's 19 years)

"Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess."

"Women don’t need to make the journey. In the whole mythological journey, the woman is there. All she has to do is realize that she’s the place that people are trying to get to.”

-------------------------------
Also a couple of things from that article.
He says "[She's] going on scavenging missions unsupervised." Um yeah, what do think she's been doing for a large chunk of her life?
"basically showing up the basic skills we saw from Ani or Luke -- i.e. some flips here and there and basic swordsmanship." Uh huh, Luke went from farm boy to 4 years latter besting the one best swordsman in the galaxy. Which one before that he couldn't do. So really in a in the time span of year, he went from getting royally defeated, to being better then Darth Vader.


Okay that was way longer then I originally intended.

The real problem with Rey getting her powers as easily as she does isn’t necessarily because she lines up exceptionally well with a Mary Sue trope, but because in doing Rey in the way they have they’ve in turn made Rey incredibly hard for a general audience member to relate to, which is about the single worst thing you could ever do in writing to your would-be protagonist in a “planned” 3 part story

The reason is because they didn’t think they had to put in the work because STARWARS and corporate greed
The excuse in the face of a complete inability to admit that maybe they really did screw this up is that fans are “Toxic”

 

[Joek3rr]

I don’t know where you are getting this head canon unless they clarify this in the books. Watch the scene again. First Order note she is going into lightspeed. We see her input coordinates like Han has done. We hear the boom which indicates entering hyperspace. If RJ was trying to show she wasn’t in hyperspace, he did a terrible job at it.

The gravity well in rebels was a unique cutting edge technology developed by the empire to get ships out of hyperspace. It makes sense they want the ship to stop or draw them in which they can’t do with a tractor beam. If that were the case, the example in Clone wars you gave didn’t make sense.

Rather as shown in your clone wars clip, it’s likely the star would have pulled the ship out of hyperspace into real space where the Star is, the ship thereby colliding with the star or be close enough that they can’t move away and will collide with the star, ending in a crash.

The thing is we have already seen how effective ship ramming is in the Star Wars universe. In Rogue One, Admiral Raddus orders a hammerhead to ram the star destroyer, pushing it into another to deal ton of damage without damaging the hammer head. We know that force equals mass x acceleration. Imagine the impact of you magnify the acceleration to let’s say lightspeed?

Yeah it’s suicidal and will result in your own ship blowing up But if you are low on resources, in a desperate situation against an enemy with superior firepower like several star destroyers or a death star, go for it.

If you fear for the cost of organic life, go with droids.

So I'm sure you know this already. But there's only so many places where you can safely make a jump to hyperspace. Hence why blockades are only seen at one spot in orbit of a planet. So the novelization details that Poe entered the into the navigation computer the jump point for that system. But by the time the First Order started firing, they had passed the jump point. That's when Holdo realizes that the jump point was right behind the First Order fleet. She has to disable all the safeguards first before the ship will allow her to make the jump. The ship kicks in the hyperdrive which accelerates the ship to lightspeed. Sending the Raddus through the Supremacy. If the Supremacy hadn't been there, the Raddus, would have gone from realspace to hyperspace.

This is the thing about gravity wells. It's just scientific term referring to the gravitational pull a celestial body.

The problem is identifying whether or not gravity wells actually affect a ships ability to travel in hyperspace or the navigational computer, specifically the safety features. I'm inclined to think it's the navigational computer that gravity wells affect. As earlier in that episode. The ship that they are on jumps to hyperspace within the atmosphere of a planet. Plus as I see it, if the gravity well of the star was to yank the ship out of hyperspace. Then they wouldn't have to bother to shut the power off to the ship. They would just wait for the ship to be pulled out, then slingshot around the star, like they do.

So yes hyperspace ramming is thing (more hyperspace jump ramming) but as I see it, your target has shields. Most likely the shields would protect the target, or at minimum reduce the damage.

 

[Joek3rr]

Having read the article, and just binged the comic yesterday now that the fourth and final issue is out, I can say they almost, but not quite, utterly misrepresent the miniseries and Rey's part in it. She's not going on scavenging missions. The remnants of the Resistance are hiding on Anoat, which is one of several garbage dump planets in known space. She's going out junking because it's her fallback when she gets stir-crazy. As for her Force abilities... Um... No...?

When the story opens, she's trying to use the Force on a big trash monster she's fighting, and she's having trouble getting it to work, and realizes it's because she picked the fight so she could use the Force to smack down a monster. Purity of motive and all that. Later, Leia has brought her with to Mon Cala as she undertakes to try and enlist their assistance. The Quarren, as usual, are being isolationist, xenophobic dicks. One of the two clear uses of the Force in the series is when Rey uses it to shove a Quarren back who's about to shoot Leia. The other is a TLJ-like "save my friends" instinctive move where she flings a crate of explosives out of the Falcon just before it goes off, while simultaneously piling up a few other crates to shield her friends. She might be using it in an internal way in a few places, to jump higher or throw her staff harder.

In the article, where they refer to her throwing her staff like a boomerang? Yeah, no. Not that I saw. There's one panel where she might be using the Force to spin it above her, baton-like, to take out the Quarren surrounding her, but the presentation is unclear. She might just as easily be, y'know, spinning it baton-like. They also refer to her having no trouble with the Jedi texts, even without a translator. Um, one, they're not referred to at all in the miniseries. And two, Threepio? Of his now seven million forms of communication, I figure Archaic Basic or whatever is probably in the first thousand.

Wasn't there a comic that came out right after TLJ showing Threepio translating the Jedi texts?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Wasn't there a comic that came out right after TLJ showing Threepio translating the Jedi texts?

Humm... If there is, I missed it. I've been pretty good about keeping up with Marvel's releases, but with all their one-shots and such, some have slipped through the cracks. I know for sure I have all of the OT-centric stuff. I consciously do not have the Obi-Wan & Anakin miniseries. Read the first two issues, but it didn't grab me. I have the rest of the PT era stuff, though. For the ST...? I have the Poe series, the Phasma miniseries, and at least many of the one-shots... But I don't remember runnign across that.

Oh, wait. Hang on. I'm on an internet. *smacks forehead*

[...]

Okay, yeah. Poe Dameron #28. Series ended at #31 and I haven't read the final story arc yet.

 

[AJTaliesen]

That's not Rogue One says. Or what the briefing in ANH shows.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I always giggled that George Lucas had a problem with the original “Star Wars” not having the image of a Ronto butt preceding the famous “these arent’t the droids you’re looking for" scene, and took the time to fix that in the Special Editions...

...but he was perfectly happy with the Rebel briefing graphics being brought to you by the Atari 2600.

 

[Psab keel]

Get your **** together George!!

 

[Joek3rr]

I always giggled that George Lucas had a problem with the original “Star Wars” not having the image of a Ronto butt preceding the famous “these arent’t the droids you’re looking for scene”, and took the time to fix that in the Special Editions...

View attachment 1079114

...but he was perfectly happy with the Rebel briefing graphics being brought to you by the Atari 2600.

View attachment 1079113

And he never had the placement of the superlaser dish corrected.

 

[Joek3rr]

The animation shows the torpedo traveling the entire length of the exhaust port. And Rogue One says that the reactor module is the unstable part. So torpedoes are clearly meant to travel the length of the exhaust port, all the way down to the reactor.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

And he never had the placement of the superlaser dish corrected.

One of the matte paintings had the same problem.

 

[Joek3rr]

One of the matte paintings had the same problem.

View attachment 1079139

LOL look at the add that popped up

 

[HeartBlade]

Having read the article, and just binged the comic yesterday now that the fourth and final issue is out, I can say they almost, but not quite, utterly misrepresent the miniseries and Rey's part in it. She's not going on scavenging missions. The remnants of the Resistance are hiding on Anoat, which is one of several garbage dump planets in known space. She's going out junking because it's her fallback when she gets stir-crazy. As for her Force abilities... Um... No...?

When the story opens, she's trying to use the Force on a big trash monster she's fighting, and she's having trouble getting it to work, and realizes it's because she picked the fight so she could use the Force to smack down a monster. Purity of motive and all that. Later, Leia has brought her with to Mon Cala as she undertakes to try and enlist their assistance. The Quarren, as usual, are being isolationist, xenophobic dicks. One of the two clear uses of the Force in the series is when Rey uses it to shove a Quarren back who's about to shoot Leia. The other is a TLJ-like "save my friends" instinctive move where she flings a crate of explosives out of the Falcon just before it goes off, while simultaneously piling up a few other crates to shield her friends. She might be using it in an internal way in a few places, to jump higher or throw her staff harder.

In the article, where they refer to her throwing her staff like a boomerang? Yeah, no. Not that I saw. There's one panel where she might be using the Force to spin it above her, baton-like, to take out the Quarren surrounding her, but the presentation is unclear. She might just as easily be, y'know, spinning it baton-like. They also refer to her having no trouble with the Jedi texts, even without a translator. Um, one, they're not referred to at all in the miniseries. And two, Threepio? Of his now seven million forms of communication, I figure Archaic Basic or whatever is probably in the first thousand.

Good to know that the article is a misrepresentation. Given that the author’s premise was to state that Rey was thus not a Mary Sue, the author makes a terrible attempt at it.

I don’t read the comics but given that even John Boyega called out the article, it obviously gets noticed.

 

[HeartBlade]

So I'm sure you know this already. But there's only so many places where you can safely make a jump to hyperspace. Hence why blockades are only seen at one spot in orbit of a planet. So the novelization details that Poe entered the into the navigation computer the jump point for that system. But by the time the First Order started firing, they had passed the jump point. That's when Holdo realizes that the jump point was right behind the First Order fleet. She has to disable all the safeguards first before the ship will allow her to make the jump. The ship kicks in the hyperdrive which accelerates the ship to lightspeed. Sending the Raddus through the Supremacy. If the Supremacy hadn't been there, the Raddus, would have gone from realspace to hyperspace.

This is the thing about gravity wells. It's just scientific term referring to the gravitational pull a celestial body.
View attachment 1079094
The problem is identifying whether or not gravity wells actually affect a ships ability to travel in hyperspace or the navigational computer, specifically the safety features. I'm inclined to think it's the navigational computer that gravity wells affect. As earlier in that episode. The ship that they are on jumps to hyperspace within the atmosphere of a planet. Plus as I see it, if the gravity well of the star was to yank the ship out of hyperspace. Then they wouldn't have to bother to shut the power off to the ship. They would just wait for the ship to be pulled out, then slingshot around the star, like they do.

So yes hyperspace ramming is thing (more hyperspace jump ramming) but as I see it, your target has shields. Most likely the shields would protect the target, or at minimum reduce the damage.

Yes, so it’s in the novelization. Sounds like the author is a much better storyteller or Rian is terrible as a film maker because he shows no indication of that. Ofcourse Holdo mentioning that would leave the majority of the audience confused (although the internet is a thing) so I could see why he didn’t add that in. However, I would assume take out the move and think of something else so as to avoid confusion would be the right path, not just shoot a lore breaking scene.

 

[Darth Fetty]

The Quarren, as usual, are being isolationist, xenophobic dicks.

Ehem... Next you're gonna say all Rodians are gangsters, Weequay are just pirates, and Twi'lek women are of loose moral virtue.

 

[HeartBlade]

Ginger ale for me please

Oh boy, where to start. Let me try this.

"What do you know about the Force?"
"It's a power that Jedi have that lets them control people and make things float."
"Impressive. Every word in that sentence was wrong. Lesson one, sit here, legs crossed. The Force is not a power you have. It's not about lifting rocks.* It's the energy between all things, a tension, a balance, that binds the universe together."
"OK. But what is it?"
"Close your eyes. Breathe. Now, reach out."
"I feel something."
"You feel it?"
"Yes, I feel it."
"It's the Force."
"Wow, it must be really strong with you."
"I've never felt anythi----OW! You meant reach out like.... I'll try again."
"Breathe. Just breathe. Reach out with your feelings. What do you see?"
"The island. Life. Death and decay, that feeds new life. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence."
"And between it all?"
"Balance. And energy. A Force."
"And inside you?"
"Inside me the same Force."

*let's add spinning your staff with the Force and mind tricking people to that list.

“The Force is really a way of seeing; it’s a way of being with life... ...The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us. You have to come to learn it. It’s not something you just get. It takes many, many years…Anyone who studied and worked hard could learn it. But you would have to do it on your own.” - George Lucas

"I am no Jedi, but I know the Force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes. Feel it. The light. It's always been there.(that's 19 years) It will guide you.

"Something inside me has always been there."(again that's 19 years)

"Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess."

"Women don’t need to make the journey. In the whole mythological journey, the woman is there. All she has to do is realize that she’s the place that people are trying to get to.”

-------------------------------
Also a couple of things from that article.
He says "[She's] going on scavenging missions unsupervised." Um yeah, what do think she's been doing for a large chunk of her life?
"basically showing up the basic skills we saw from Ani or Luke -- i.e. some flips here and there and basic swordsmanship." Uh huh, Luke went from farm boy to 4 years latter besting the one best swordsman in the galaxy. Which one before that he couldn't do. So really in a in the time span of year, he went from getting royally defeated, to being better then Darth Vader.


Okay that was way longer then I originally intended.

You never disappoint to fail to understand basic character development and tension.

“The Force is really a way of seeing; it’s a way of being with life... ...The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us. You have to come to learn it. It’s not something you just get. It takes many, many years…Anyone who studied and worked hard could learn it. But you would have to do it on your own.” - George Lucas

So where is the learning and “many, many years” that Rey took?

Women don’t need to make the journey. In the whole mythological journey, the woman is there. All she has to do is realize that she’s the place that people are trying to get to

WTF is this quote? So men have to struggle but women don’t have too? Sounds pretty sexist.

All other quotes are from TLJ so makes sense to fit within the movie.

From the article:

As for Luke, as he progressed, he also had Master Yoda to train with on the swamp planet, Dagobah, continuing the cycle of masters and apprentices

Explains the 4 year improvement. Luke was also barely equal until he tapped into his anger and rage to disarm Vader

 

[HeartBlade]

Rey's on a high level, not to mention she's got the mind tricks down along with advanced usage of Force telekinesis. Seriously, a comparison of the three and their abilities at this current stage shows that, like it or not, Rey stands head and shoulders above the rest.

Rey might currently be more powerful than the Skywalkers, but in the grand scheme of things, she's also shaping up to be the strongest Jedi of all time.

Definition of Mary Sue according to tvtropes

She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting

The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting

Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series

I think based on just the movies, you could make a point that Rey is not a Mary Sue (although difficult). The article essentially defends every point that she is so I’m hoping the author just doesn’t know her stuff.

 

[Egon Spengler]

So far, I really don't care about Rey. Just comes off as an empty shell of a character to me. Has nothing to do with anything other than I just find her uninteresting. She's important just because. She's strong and powerful just because. Maybe in this movie it'll all be revealed as to why and it'll fix that, but so far it's like drinking soda with no carbonation. It's flat.

 

[Mr Webber]

The 'men in black hats' wouldnt use that tactic in the first place as they always seem to have numerical superiority. A suicide attack is a desperation move. You never saw the U.S. utilize kamikaze attacks near the end of WW2, because in the grand scheme they are fairly ineffective. The Japanese caused some damage with them but Kamikazes were never going to win the war. Which is why I have to roll my eyes every time someone yells out "Rian Johnson ruined space battles!" No. No he didnt.

Hold on to your pearls for a second, Yeah, he did and a whole lot of other stuff as well but staying on topic, in the movie that tactic created a tremendous amount of damage and took out most of the fleet so you cant have it both ways. The men in black always seem to have the numerical superiority and yet always seem to get their butts kicked as well. Unless you consider 2 Death Stars and a Star Killer to be small losses that is.

When I saw a sky filled with Resistance ships packed tighter than a portly mans sock in the TROS trailer my immediate thought was 2 Star Destroyers pulling the Hyperkazi move would take most of it out in one hit. Thanks Rian.

 

[Joek3rr]

You never disappoint to fail to understand basic character development and tension.

“The Force is really a way of seeing; it’s a way of being with life... ...The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us. You have to come to learn it. It’s not something you just get. It takes many, many years…Anyone who studied and worked hard could learn it. But you would have to do it on your own.” - George Lucas

So where is the learning and “many, many years” that Rey took?

Women don’t need to make the journey. In the whole mythological journey, the woman is there. All she has to do is realize that she’s the place that people are trying to get to

WTF is this quote? So men have to struggle but women don’t have too? Sounds pretty sexist.

All other quotes are from TLJ so makes sense to fit within the movie.

From the article:

As for Luke, as he progressed, he also had Master Yoda to train with on the swamp planet, Dagobah, continuing the cycle of masters and apprentices

Explains the 4 year improvement. Luke was also barely equal until he tapped into his anger and rage to disarm Vader

Rey has known of the Force for 19 years. She's had more time on her own to connect with the Force then any of the other heroes we've seen. It's been her constant companion all of her life.

The quote is from Joseph Campbell. It's not that women don't have to struggle. But their struggle is very very different from a man's. This is from Maureen Murdock, a student of Campbell's, that created the Heroine's Journey. "The feminine journey is about going down deep into soul, healing and reclaiming, while the masculine journey is up and out, to spirit.”

You'll notice though with Luke, that all of his Force abilities he learned on his own. They just came to him.

And I agree with you on that one. It's Luke's rage and anger(the Dark Side) that give him the upper hand against Vader. Not his magically improved lightsaber skills.