Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

Rose is basically Finn's shoulder angel, to DJ's shoulder devil. If you haven't seen it yet I highly recommend watching Just Write's 'The Last Jedi and the 7 Basic Questions of Narrative Drama'. Very informative little video essay.

But really I just like Rose. Something about her bubbly attituded that just really draws me to her, which is basically how Kelly Marie Tran is in real life. And as I see it, her back story with her sister sets up how she reacts when she finds Finn tying get in an escape pod. Her sister just gave her life for this resistance, and here's Finn, who she thought was this great hero, trying to get away from the resistance, because it's doomed.

Obviously take it for what you will but this was an interesting discussion between MauLer & Just Write on another one of his vids. Basically it comes down to a matter of people using "Muh Themes" as an excuse for ignoring large errors in the film
Starts at 2:10
 
Last edited:
It was to introduce the super rich are evil theme, slavery, arms dealers etc. The need for a code breaker was just a means to get there.

But I like your idea better, cut out the fat and get to the business at hand.
Selfish and greedy are evil. That was the message I got anyways.
 
Except that smacks of not writing a story, but structuring activity for 3 different characters and then writing a story to satisfy that requirement. It's story first and foremost.
Except thats kinda what ESB does..... In both films, they take our heroes, which we left celebrating a hard-won victory, and thow that in the blender. And put then they put those characters through the wringer. The story is written to facilitate this. For instance, the tunnel conveniently collapses(Seriously the Star Wars show needs to do an "Everything is Important" segment on that tunnel, or would that be General Veers....), meaning Han and Leia are now forced together, and the hyperdrive is busted, so their time spent together is even longer. Allowing a deep relationship to form. Now each film does that differently because you know, they have different writers an directors.

That's also how George writes. He's said he comes up with several things he wants to see happen in the film, and then figures out a way to connect them together.
it's almost like the Indy joke in BBT - take Indy out and nothing really changes.

Take out rose, and for that matter Canto Bight, and what really changes if there was a code breaker on the ship and they just went right over the same way?

Basically, nothing. The film gets shorter by about 15 minutes. That's it. Finn still goes to the ship, gets captured, faces off with Phasma, wins, returns, etc. Structurally, her presence changes nothing. Now...maybe her payoff is in 9, but as far as 8 goes, largely irrelevant. As you say, the only thing she accomplishes is having a buddy for Finn to hang with in canto bight. That's it.

Not sure I get the point of CB to be honest. They go there to find a special hacker, don't find that guy (least I don't think he was), get 'a' hacker (in theory), who sells them out. If the whole point is to get them captured, just send them over on their own and let them get captured. Add a little ANH roaming the death start aspect and sneaking around. That'd be more interesting and builds the characters and gives them buddy buddy time in the process. At least that makes sense. The odds that they know where in the biggest ship in the galaxy the tiny tracker is and exactly how to get there and can get there quickly are about zero. But, again, sneaking over and finding it servers a purpose. The whole CB process didn't/doesn't seem to serve a purpose really.

So what would change if Rose was taken out? Finn would never become a Rebel. He isn't fighting for a cause, other than his own. Which is to save Rey. I mean he says it like 5 times or something. Actually his relationship with Rey is a little similar to Anakin and Padme, in that he has kinda this selfish love for Rey(not necessarily a romantic love). The kind of "I can't live without her, I'm going to do whatever I can to save her, even if that hurts other people" kind of love. That's why Canto Bight and DJ are so important because Finn sees where that selfish greedy attitude gets people. The kind of monsters they become. And why that scene showing him being willing to sacrifice himself for the Resistance, is important. Earlier in the film, he wouldn't have done that, unless Rey's life had been threatened. But know he identifies with the cause. He's a "rebel scum." He's not Finn who wants to run away from the First Order with Rey, anymore.

Anyways that's how I see things. Me personally, I'm thrilled to see more Rose Tico.
 
I enjoy BBT but I disagree with their whole assessment of Raiders. Marion would be dead without Indy. The fact that people have latched onto that idea of Indy annoys me, but I digress.
Also thanks to Indy, the Americans are in possession of the Ark. Not the Nazis. Had he not been there at the aftermath of the ceremony to claim the Ark, Berlin would have undoubtedly sent an envoy to secure it.

But regardless, even if events shape up exactly the same way it doesn't make the adventure any less meaningful. It wasn't about simply finding the Ark, it was about finding it first. Indy knows Belloq is smart enough to find the Ark on his own so he had to beat him to it.

*Mini Raiders rant over*

Back to TROS...
 
Last edited:
I enjoy BBT but I disagree with their whole assessment of Raiders. Marion would be dead without Indy. The fact that people have latched onto that idea of Indy annoys me, but I digress.

Canto Bites and Rose suck. Both are lackluster elements to a movie I despise. Honestly I was at least open to the idea of a sequel trilogy before 8, not excited per say but open to it, but 8 just ended it for me. Which in a way I'm glad for because I can just move on and enjoy the OT without even considering anything else. Star Wars was way cooler when it was one trilogy. I'm not a fan of this 9 to 12 part saga concept.

That's just me though. I know others feel different.
Wasn't agreeing, just referencing the joke.
 
Except thats kinda what ESB does..... In both films, they take our heroes, which we left celebrating a hard-won victory, and thow that in the blender. And put then they put those characters through the wringer. The story is written to facilitate this. For instance, the tunnel conveniently collapses(Seriously the Star Wars show needs to do an "Everything is Important" segment on that tunnel, or would that be General Veers....), meaning Han and Leia are now forced together, and the hyperdrive is busted, so their time spent together is even longer. Allowing a deep relationship to form. Now each film does that differently because you know, they have different writers an directors.

That's also how George writes. He's said he comes up with several things he wants to see happen in the film, and then figures out a way to connect them together.


So what would change if Rose was taken out? Finn would never become a Rebel. He isn't fighting for a cause, other than his own. Which is to save Rey. I mean he says it like 5 times or something. Actually his relationship with Rey is a little similar to Anakin and Padme, in that he has kinda this selfish love for Rey(not necessarily a romantic love). The kind of "I can't live without her, I'm going to do whatever I can to save her, even if that hurts other people" kind of love. That's why Canto Bight and DJ are so important because Finn sees where that selfish greedy attitude gets people. The kind of monsters they become. And why that scene showing him being willing to sacrifice himself for the Resistance, is important. Earlier in the film, he wouldn't have done that, unless Rey's life had been threatened. But know he identifies with the cause. He's a "rebel scum." He's not Finn who wants to run away from the First Order with Rey, anymore.

Anyways that's how I see things. Me personally, I'm thrilled to see more Rose Tico.

That's basically chicken or the egg.

Finn wasn't that way at the end of TFA and could easily have changed his thinking upon waking up.

Simply put. Remove Rose.
Don't make Finn doubt himself. Or let him figure it out on the other ship.
Send a couple people to the jamming ship straight from the resistance ship.
Extend them finding the jammer
Get them caught
Kill off phasma
return
Go to crait.
Have his ship disabled.

What changes? Story wise? nothing.
Now, i'm not saying that's the way to go, just saying it from an analytical perspective. Did we need to see wealthy snobs not giving a crap? No. Not much point to it. If the point was Finn's woe is me to joining the cause, it could have been done without canto bight very easily. Also could have been done without rose.

You can like the character. I don't hate the character myself. But i'm capable of admitting she was far from a necessity. I mean, you could have sent Poe and a small crew with them and Poe has to learn his command lesson's there which in turn sets Finn's head straight.
 
That's basically chicken or the egg.

Finn wasn't that way at the end of TFA and could easily have changed his thinking upon waking up.

Simply put. Remove Rose.
Don't make Finn doubt himself. Or let him figure it out on the other ship.
Send a couple people to the jamming ship straight from the resistance ship.
Extend them finding the jammer
Get them caught
Kill off phasma
return
Go to crait.
Have his ship disabled.

What changes? Story wise? nothing.
Now, i'm not saying that's the way to go, just saying it from an analytical perspective. Did we need to see wealthy snobs not giving a crap? No. Not much point to it. If the point was Finn's woe is me to joining the cause, it could have been done without canto bight very easily. Also could have been done without rose.

You can like the character. I don't hate the character myself. But i'm capable of admitting she was far from a necessity. I mean, you could have sent Poe and a small crew with them and Poe has to learn his command lesson's there which in turn sets Finn's head straight.

Yeah, Finn was that way in TFA.
"Sanitation? Then how do you know how to disable the shields?"
"I don't. I'm just here to get Rey."
"People are counting on us! The galaxy is counting on us--!"
 
Isn't it awfully convenient that Fin, the sanitation worker, just happened to serve on both starkiller base knowing exactly what they needed to do there, and then again on the exact ship they need to infiltrate to disable the tracker?

I love movies
 
Yeah I could have done well without the whole war profiteering commentary.

Consider the irony of that idea with an entire series called Star Wars, whose sole purpose was to entertain and profit through fictional space conflict.

So does that make George Lucas and Disney war profiteers?
 
I know this is a tangent, but I love Raiders as much as Star Wars and I feel I have to defend it. The climax of the film isn’t about Indy’s effect on the plot—the real climax is when Indy decides for the first time that Marion is more important than the Ark. Every other time in the film he has to decide between the two he chooses the Ark. He leaves her in Belloq’s tent because her disappearance could raise the alarm. But regardless of Belloq’s monologue about him needing to see the Ark opened, I feel that it was really about choosing Marion over the Ark, and in my opinion, validated by the fact he doesn’t watch the Ark being opened.
Anyway, tangent over. Resume your Star Wars

EDIT: additionally, how I feel about Big Bang Theory—
56492250-33F7-4A99-B25B-2402CD1C9DF3.jpeg
 
Last edited:
?
Indy knew if anyone looked into the opened Ark they would face the wrath of God, choosing Marion had nothing to do with it.
 
?
Indy knew if anyone looked into the opened Ark they would face the wrath of God, choosing Marion had nothing to do with it.
I feel…and in my opinion…
Never claimed it as fact. Really it’s just an escapist film with little regard to plot or character—it’s just some damn fun entertainment. I just don’t like people bringing up BBT as a reason to hate on the movie/Indiana Jones.
 
I think there are several problems with Rose:

1) she was shoved into the story
Rose comes out of nowhere and doesn’t seem to be a character who would be important (she is in the back guarding escape pods).

2) she took away potential character development
A lot of fans wanted more Finn and Poe screentime. Finn and Poe working together to accomplish the mission and deepen their friendship

3) She was a political mouthpiece
She just brings in the war profiteering arc (which is too heavy handed and didn’t seem to fit into Star Wars canon. I mean how does that work?) and more screw the rich narrative
The speech about don’t fight what you hate also comes off as preachy

I do despite the fan treatment of her (she was just doing her job) and think the blame is on Rian Johnson as the director but Star Wars fans have had a bad record on this (look at Hayden and Jake Lloyd).
 
It was to introduce the super rich are evil theme, slavery, arms dealers etc. The need for a code breaker was just a means to get there.

But I like your idea better, cut out the fat and get to the business at hand.

You know who else is super rich and maybe evil? Movie companies that own multiple TV networks and the most of the popular franchises, sports ball players, actors, innovators, etc.
 
You know who else is super rich and maybe evil? Movie companies that own multiple TV networks and the most of the popular franchises, sports ball players, actors, innovators, etc.
I may like the new Star Wars. But this is can agree with. When movies fail, 85% percent of the time, it's the big studio that thinks it knows everything meddling with the film. The Hobbit, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, etc they all crashed and burned because dumb requirements put upon by the studio.
 
Back
Top