Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
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cboath
Master Member
While i doubt he returns as flesh - if he does, it'll be the original obi wan plan. Crosses over to help the final fight and crosses back when it's done.
I still like the idea, though, that he wasn't really on Ach-To and that he was doing that doppleganger thing to Rey.
Joek3rr
Master Member
So I think Anakin is going to be making an appearance in the flesh. I've been noticing that Lucasfilm has been playing heavily on the whole coming back from the "dead" thing. First have Charles Soule's Vader comic. Where we have Lord Momin, and we learn that his spirit is bound to his helmet. He later opens up a portal to the Netherworld of the Force to reunite with his body. Then Vader travels into the Netherworld to try to bring Padmé back. Then the episode 9 title is revealed to be 'The Rise of Skywalker'. And now they've released the new VR game, called Vader Immortal.(as in never dying, living forever) And from what I've heard, it sounds like Vader is trying to bring Padmé back again. And there's also that concept art from TFA showing Anakin's/Vader's ghost. So either they have been dropping bread crumbs, or it's the biggest misdirect in the history of misdirects.
cboath
Master Member
That's reading too much into things frankly. That's TOO much to put on a movie audience. The percentage of hard core fans who've read that stuff is a small small fraction of the films, regardless of trilogy. That'd be inferring a helluva lot of information on an audience that 99% of would never have heard of,
And him returning would seem to be rather pointless outside of fulfilling their self annointed 'tying up the skywalker saga' bit. If that was really a factor, you address that 'saga' head on and play into from the opening beat of 7. They didn't in 7 or 8 really.
And him returning would seem to be rather pointless outside of fulfilling their self annointed 'tying up the skywalker saga' bit. If that was really a factor, you address that 'saga' head on and play into from the opening beat of 7. They didn't in 7 or 8 really.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I don't think it's too much. Let's not forget that in the first film, it surprises with Obi- Wan disappearing when he dies, the we hear his disembodied voice. Then in the next film, we saw his ghost. We didn't get an explanation to how or why he could this, until ROTS, and then The Clone Wars. The extra details are for the really nerdy fans. It's a perfect way to tie it all together. What happens in episodes 4-9 are the result of Anakin and Padmé did, or did not do. So it would be perfect as we come full circle to see at least one of them. Not to mention that if you look at the hero's journey diagram, we are at the part of the story where the hero has a resurrection or rebirth.
But we'll have to see what happens in the coming month's. Particularly with Vader Immortal, and why is it called that.
DARTH ANIBAL
Sr Member
As cool as this would be, were it all planned out from the beginning, you're expecting too much. They can't pull this off now. I dig TLJ, and the general direction of things, but there's no room to execute this now and not have it feel ham-handed.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Well Adam has said for the second time, that at least Ben's arc was planned out. And from Kathy, we know that they've been planning on the Emperor's return, they didn't know how or when to do it.
“I knew little bits from my first meeting with J.J.,” Adam Driver says of where Kylo Ren finishes this story. “An overall arc was very, not vague, the opposite, it was very clear—[there was] an end in sight even from the very beginning. The details obviously hadn’t been worked out, but we had talked about the very thing that we’d been working towards with this last one.”
I still hold to my theory, that they laid out a basic plan. They established an starting point and an ending point. But how it the story would go from point A to point B is was up to film directors.
You know one of the most interesting things about TLJ is, it has quite a few Anakin/Padmé parallels. Kinda freaky some of them. And sure some might say it's coincidence, but there's too many to be coincidence.
Joek3rr
Master Member
See the Adam Driver quote I just posted.
And also look at Pablo Hildago's description of his job as Creative Executive
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@MisterCHolocron What exactly does being creative executive entail? I assume it's basically being an editor of sorts for books?
@pablohidalgo planning storylines, all content, reading/approving/commenting on scripts, manuscripts, outlines, etc. etc.
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They might have had a handful of concepts in mind but nothing suggests that it was fleshed out enough to say concretely that Pablo Hidalgo, Kathleen Kennedy, J. J. Abrams, Rian Johnson, and everyone at Lucasfilm had a master plan like they do at Marvel with Kevin Feige at the helm.
Having a general sense of what you want to do is a different thing than having a concrete plan with logical steps to get from A to B.
Having a general sense of what you want to do is a different thing than having a concrete plan with logical steps to get from A to B.
I remember when I first read this in the annotated screenplays book, all I could think of how Highlander 2 tried this and.. well...
Joek3rr
Master Member
I don't think they have things planned out to the MCU level of detail. And that's a good thing. The first thing they ask the author, writer, or director, is 'what is Star Wars to you.' They are encouraging the creators, to be creative, to make Star Wars personal to them. Unlike Kevin, and his overbearing vision for the MCU.(there's a reason why Joss Whedon left Marvel)
This has to do with the books, but it probably is similar to how the movies are made.
@bishbashboshjt Do LFL tell novelists the plot or do they Vet it with you?
@pablohidalgo We don't tell them the plot. It's their stories. We just try to make sure it's the right story to tell at the right time.
cboath
Master Member
Marvel very much lets the directors etc be creative - see GOTG, Thor: Ragnarok, etc.
You CAN be creative with having goals set out. I'd wage there wasn't a set goal for Ragnarok. Probably things they couldn't do and they want the character at 'this spot' when it's over.
When doing a trilogy for SW, you definitely need to map out the broad strokes before start film 1. What is happening in 1, 2, 3, etc. And i mean, 'main things'. Not necessarily subplots and what not, but you have to know by the end of 1, things need to be here, 2, here, and we need to finish up here. None of that seems to be there. You CANNOT do the start a story and pass it on and see where it ends up. Epic fail that way.
You CAN be creative with having goals set out. I'd wage there wasn't a set goal for Ragnarok. Probably things they couldn't do and they want the character at 'this spot' when it's over.
When doing a trilogy for SW, you definitely need to map out the broad strokes before start film 1. What is happening in 1, 2, 3, etc. And i mean, 'main things'. Not necessarily subplots and what not, but you have to know by the end of 1, things need to be here, 2, here, and we need to finish up here. None of that seems to be there. You CANNOT do the start a story and pass it on and see where it ends up. Epic fail that way.
There can be creativity and ingenuity within the confines of a structure. Some of the best artwork I ever made was in a sculpture class where there were strict perameters but within those I had free reign. Having the limitations forces you to make creative choices you otherwise would not have which is why the OT is far superior to the PT because having the limits of certain technology and people around George who kept his vision focused made for better movies.
Often people think of compromise as being a weakness when in fact can be a strength. The PT is a perfect example of someone who had total control vs the OT where there was more of sense of collaboration. That's not to say George was a tyrant by any means but there is a distinct difference between the trilogies because of those factors.
Often people think of compromise as being a weakness when in fact can be a strength. The PT is a perfect example of someone who had total control vs the OT where there was more of sense of collaboration. That's not to say George was a tyrant by any means but there is a distinct difference between the trilogies because of those factors.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
And that's exactly what they've done.
Laspector
Master Member
I dunno, I kinda want Star Wars to just be Star Wars. That's really all I want. I don't want this guy's idea of Star Wars is and then this other guy's idea of what Star Wars is, and then some other dude's (or dudette's) interpretation of what Star Wars is.
Just give me plain ol' Star Wars and I'll be happy.
Just give me plain ol' Star Wars and I'll be happy.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Yeah of gotta disagree. Let's look at the evidence here.
TFA
The only reacting to the criticism of the previous film going here, would be them putting emphasis of SFX over VFX.
And I'd say the two main criticisms of TFA are, Rey is believed to be a Mary Sue and it was to similar to ANH. So how does the next film respond to the criticism?
R1
They don't. The make a film that ends, what, a half an hour before ANH? There's no reacting to criticisms here. And mind you R1's pre-production would have mostly finished before TFA was released. So how about the next film?
TLJ
TLJ was famously(or infamously) written before TFA was released. Meaning there's no reacting to criticism going on here either. And just look at film, it doesn't do anything about the Mary Sue criticism. And the film follows some the same beats as ESB. So TFA's criticism was ignored.
Solo
Being a spin off film, it doesn't bother with the criticism of the saga films. But it does something else. The opinion on the Internet was pretty clear. Very few people wanted this film(most wanting a Obi-Wan, Boba, or Vader film). But they went ahead and made Solo anyways.
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And I also have to disagree with the assessment that there's nothing bold or confident in their direction.
The Story Group decided to de-canonize nearly 30 of EU lore, that is a bold move.
They freakin' killed off Han Solo!
Love him or hate him, what was done to Luke Skywalker takes some serious guts to do.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Flipping through my copy of 'The Art of The Last Jedi'(though it's from TFA's pre-production, not TLJ) I came across this peice done by Christian Alzmann. The caption reads. "We've seen dead Jedi come back as blue ghosts. Maybe Sith can come back. And maybe there's some all-powerful mastermind Sith that's controlling whatever the dark side is. We did talk a lot about how the final battle frontier for Jedi might be in the spirit realm. So you have to have a bad-guy-ghost." I wonder if this a hint about what the Emperor is going to be up to.
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