Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Psab keel]

I'm sure the millions that Boyega got paid was convincing enough.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Good lord, let's not start this again.

 

[Halliwax]

The new novel 'Master and Apprentice' has finally given us the whole prophecy.

It's interesting to note that there is no mention of the Sith. Misread the prophecy could have been? Either way I don't think this undermines what Anakin did. He still brought balance. He still destroyed the order of Sith Lords when he destroyed Vader and Sidious. The problem is, Anakin died. Because of this, the balance was temporary.

Either way you slice it, I have a feeling we are going to revisit prophecy of the Chosen One again. It makes sense as the story comes full circle, back to The Phantom Menace.

It's also interesting to note that John Boyega came to JJ, telling him that Palpatine couldn't return. And that it messes up things. But JJ talked to John and whatever he said changed his mind.

Unfortunately joker after Disney’s take over I just don’t care...

 

[Joek3rr]

I thought the prophecy according to the PT was that he would "bring balance to the Force". If so he did it in ROTS by destroying the Jedi order and reducing them down to two remaining Jedi and two remaining Sith.

"Luminous beings are we not this crude matter."

Two Jedi and two Sith isn't necessarily balance. After all they are just beings made of "crude matter".

Plus you have to consider that there were more then two surviving Jedi, and there are other Light Side and Dark Side religions. The Jedi and the Sith are just the two most prominent.

 

[Bigdaddy]

"Luminous beings are we not this crude matter."

Two Jedi and two Sith isn't necessarily balance. After all they are just beings made of "crude matter".

Plus you have to consider that there were more then two surviving Jedi, and there are other Light Side and Dark Side religions. The Jedi and the Sith are just the two most prominent.

But they are the only 2 that exist in the film universe.

 

[PantheraGem]

Episode IX isn't going to go deep into anything, it would have to be a 6 hour movie. No one has learned their lesson from TLJ and all of the "deep" theories that came before it.

 

[Joek3rr]

But they are the only 2 that exist in the film universe.

And there's only 1 Jedi at the end of ROTJ, yet George said that Anakin had fulfilled the prophecy.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

My argument has always been that it is not:
the jedi = good
the sith = evil.

It is
the jedi = protecting the natural balance
the sith = causes imbalance

So it is not about quantity, it is about quality.

 

[Strikerkc]

My argument has always been that it is not:
the jedi = good
the sith = evil.

It is
the jedi = protecting the natural balance
the sith = causes imbalance

So it is not about quantity, it is about quality.

That may be the Jedi mission statement from time to time, but they've never done that. They're not out there maintaining balance. They've only ever ponced around the Galaxy "doing good". If they were really about balance, they wouldn't have named the two aspects of the infinite cosmic power they study "light" and "dark", then FORBIDDEN the study of one. LoL

 

[Bigdaddy]

And there's only 1 Jedi at the end of ROTJ, yet George said that Anakin had fulfilled the prophecy.

It doesn't matter what George said, that's outside the story universe. He didn't even have the sense to put the whole prophecy in the actual movies. I doubt he even knew what the whole prophecy was when he was making the prequels! That's why his explanation doesn't make any sense to me within the context of the films.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

That may be the Jedi mission statement from time to time, but they've never done that. They're not out there maintaining balance. They've only ever ponced around the Galaxy "doing good". If they were really about balance, they wouldn't have named the two aspects of the infinite cosmic power they study "light" and "dark", then FORBIDDEN the study of one. LoL

Sure they would.
Light = balance
Dark = out of balance

And it is the way the Jedi have been using their abilities is what is creating the imbalance as well. It caused them to lessen their connection to the force and failed to realize the Sith had returned. That’s why the Jedi for the most part were destroyed along with the Sith because the Jedi were not fulfilling their true purpose.

 

[Joek3rr]

It doesn't matter what George said, that's outside the story universe. He didn't even have the sense to put the whole prophecy in the actual movies. I doubt he even knew what the whole prophecy was when he was making the prequels! That's why his explanation doesn't make any sense to me within the context of the films.

But it does make sense. If there is a need for the Chosen One, to bring balance to the Force. Then I think we can safely assume that the Force is out of balance. And if the Force is out of balance, then there are only two ways for it to go. Either it's too much Light or too much Dark. And the films tell us that it's too much Dark. Yoda says that "The shroud of the Dark Side has fallen...". Obi-Wan says that Anakin was believed to "...bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!" So even with only two Sith, and they still being outnumbered by Jedi(remember Obi-Wan shutting down the coded message ordering Jedi to return? Obi-Wan believed that there may have been other survivors of Order 66) the Dark Side is still stronger.

I wonder when George came up with the idea of the Chosen One. There was at one time a prophecy in some early drafts of Star Wars. The prophecy of the Son of Suns. I think it developed from that.
"…And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as THE SON OF THE SUNS."
―Journal of the Whills, 3:127
"Son of Suns" is a reference to a prophecy that was included in an earlier draft of the script that eventually became Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope.

 

[Joek3rr]

Sure they would.
Light = balance
Dark = out of balance

And it is the way the Jedi have been using their abilities is what is creating the imbalance as well. It caused them to lessen their connection to the force and failed to realize the Sith had returned. That’s why the Jedi for the most part were destroyed along with the Sith because the Jedi were not fulfilling their true purpose.

I'm afraid George might disagree...

• "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999
  

• "In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything." -George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002
  

• "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
  

• "The Force has two sides - [Light and Dark]. It is not a[n inherently] malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

• "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I'm afraid George might disagree...

• "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

• "In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything." -George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

• "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

• "The Force has two sides - [Light and Dark]. It is not a[n inherently] malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

• "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

I don’t know. Seems like he does agree with me.

 

[Strikerkc]

That makes no sense man. That's like saying "crab cake = balance" while "blue = out of balance".

You're just picking words and assigning them arbitrary meanings.

For starters, light and dark, are the MAIN things in our world that exist naturally IN BALANCE with each other (day vs night across the year). We consider days with more of one than the other to be unbalanced towards one end of the spectrum. But they balance out over the course of the year. Equal parts of light and dark = balance. More of one = out of balance.

At best you're equating "light" to "good" and to "seeking balance". But then by going around only ever seeking to do good to cause balance, the jedi unbalance things. It's a self defeating ethos. That's frankly why the Jedi have fallen so many times. They only rise to power because people like them going around unbalancing things in their favor. Then they try to "balance" the Galaxy all the way to the good side (aka imbalance) and things go to ****.

Natural balance still includes entropy and destruction. A balanced ecosystem includes predators. A balanced weather system still includes brutal destructive storms. A balanced universe still contains supernovas annihilating entire start systems at a time, to be reborn. Natural balance is a cycle, and the Jedi keep ******* things up by trying to lock the Galaxy into "happy, clear sky, sunshine and bunny's" mode, which causes the force to bitch slap them back down with an overwhelming amount of destruction and suffering; restoring the balance that the Jedi had upset.

 

[Joek3rr]

I don’t know. Seems like he does agree with me.

He would agree with you on the notion that the Sith are creating imbalance. But that's because they embrace the Dark Side and only the Dark Side. The Sith are evil. But the Light Side and the Dark Side are two sides of the same coin and need both need to be there.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Good and evil are subjective terms.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Also, how about we wait for the movie to see if they are able to tie everything together. How about a little optimism rather than all the hater talk?

 

[Strikerkc]

hater talk? The movie's aren't getting hated on. We're just pointing out what all the movies have shown. jedi talk a big game about balance, then imbalance things, then get smacked down.

same goes for the sith. They take control, throw the galaxy the other way, people with blue light sabers start showing up, to yank things back the other way. It's how its worked. It what we expect 9 to do. nothing "hater" about it.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I was referring to previous comments about if the prophecy is getting messed up with the addition of the ST. I just want to see the movie first. Maybe it will be enlightening.