Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[DARTH ANIBAL]

Problem is then why didn’t “all the Jedi” intervene when the chosen one killed off Palpatine since he was the chosen one. Furthermore, when did Rey gain the ability to summon “all the Jedi” and why would they use her as their vessel (an untrained older student of the new Jedi order and descendent of one of the most powerful Sith in history) vs Anakin (chosen one, trained in their older order and traditions)

Because it wasn't in the script.

Obviously kidding. I don't know. I enjoyed this trilogy, but to me it's its own thing. I can view it as a continuation of the OT, and as a separate, "what if", future scenario. I can't do that with the prequels, but I get that there are folks that totally buy them as an essential prelude to the OT.

 

[Solo4114]

Because it wasn't in the script.

Obviously kidding. I don't know. I enjoyed this trilogy, but to me it's its own thing. I can view it as a continuation of the OT, and as a separate, "what if", future scenario. I can't do that with the prequels, but I get that there are folks that totally buy them as an essential prelude to the OT.

My daughter turns four next week. Looking now at the prequels some 20-years on, I can see where she'd really enjoy The Phantom Menace if that was her first Star Wars experience (it isn't -- she's seen clips from the OT, and I'm reading her the old storybooks from the 80s, and just got her the record-and-book sets of the OT to play on her own record player, all of which I'm giving her for her 4th birthday).

For really little kids, like, 4-7, TPM would be a perfectly entertaining introduction to the franchise. If they aged alongside the franchise, then AOTC would be another decent entry by the time they're about 7-10, and then ROTS would be perfectly "dark" by the time they're 10-13. The Clone Wars cartoon show would likewise be well appreciated in there. (I mean, I enjoy it enough that it actually helped me to enjoy ROTS!)

I still think TPM is best left ignored or explained briefly as backstory, or shown as a few clips instead of watching the whole film. Most of AOTC, too, for that matter. (the end battle is pretty cool, though)

 

[sztriki]

Maybe there's an in-universe 'x' factor as to why the way he was destroyed this time is permanent. Maybe it has something to do with the participation(?) of "all the Jedi."

I'm almost more interested in why this Palp clone was suddenly "all the Sith". The more they try to explain this the less sense it makes really.
Personal note, it's not like I'll be losing any sleep over all this as canon or non canon, I can completely ignore the PT and detach it from the OT, I reckon I'll just do that with this trilogy. Shame that TFA goes down the drain too with this but hey.

 

[HanSolo2187]

I'm almost more interested in why this Palp clone was suddenly "all the Sith". The more they try to explain this the less sense it makes really.

Agreed. The more they try to explain the story/Palpatine's return - the more it doesn't make sense. For me, if he's a clone, why are his fingers all burnt-up? If he wasn't a clone, it makes sense that they got that way from the Force lightning he used on Luke or from being thrown down the vent on DS2. But if he's a clone, then his whole body would be more like his face - smoother and not fully formed.

 

[BlandoCalrssian]

Agreed. The more they try to explain the story/Palpatine's return - the more it doesn't make sense. For me, if he's a clone, why are his fingers all burnt-up? If he wasn't a clone, it makes sense that they got that way from the Force lightning he used on Luke or from being thrown down the vent on DS2. But if he's a clone, then his whole body would be more like his face - smoother and not fully formed.

I think the idea was that Palpatines essence is too much for a clone body to handle, causing the deterioration like the black fingers. Would have been nice if they took a few extra seconds in a 2 1/2 hour movie to explain that though.

 

[HeartBlade]

honestly if I were cloning myself, I’ll make myself look damn good too lol. Why would Palpatine go back to the old wrinkly body when he can at least look his prime? Dark Empire had the right idea with Emperor Palpatine in clone form going back into a younger fitter body lol.

Honestly, I feel this trilogy should have been a new IP with heavy influence from Star Wars instead of Star Wars (Disney owns the rights so they can’t sue themselves).

I will say I think the actors did a great job with what they were given, the music and sets were amazing, and visually the movies were spectacular. And in terms of ideas, TLJs subversions were interesting. They just don’t fit with Star Wars.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

My daughter turns four next week. Looking now at the prequels some 20-years on, I can see where she'd really enjoy The Phantom Menace if that was her first Star Wars experience (it isn't -- she's seen clips from the OT, and I'm reading her the old storybooks from the 80s, and just got her the record-and-book sets of the OT to play on her own record player, all of which I'm giving her for her 4th birthday).

For really little kids, like, 4-7, TPM would be a perfectly entertaining introduction to the franchise. If they aged alongside the franchise, then AOTC would be another decent entry by the time they're about 7-10, and then ROTS would be perfectly "dark" by the time they're 10-13. The Clone Wars cartoon show would likewise be well appreciated in there. (I mean, I enjoy it enough that it actually helped me to enjoy ROTS!)

Of course, there may be some inherent bias to blame, but my daughter (she's 12 now) has never enjoyed ANY of the PT films. Even though I'm not personally into them, I tried starting her there because I figured "little Ani" would give her a relatable character inasmuch as there are no children to be seen in the OT. That's a big fat "NOPE". She says they're boring. Her favorites are TFA and Rogue One, but she really digs the OT and "handsome Luke".

 

[dascoyne]

I feel like the visual storytelling of everything that followed Star Wars and Empire should have maintained. We don't see flashbacks or visions, except in extreme circumstances like the Dagobah cave.

QFT.
And we didn't need origin stories (Solo) or prequels.

 

[dascoyne]

Of course, there may be some inherent bias to blame, but my daughter (she's 12 now) has never enjoyed ANY of the PT films. Even though I'm not personally into them, I tried starting her there because I figured "little Ani" would give her a relatable character inasmuch as there are no children to be seen in the OT. That's a big fat "NOPE". She says they're boring. Her favorites are TFA and Rogue One, but she really digs the OT and "handsome Luke".

You are a good dad.

 

[sztriki]

Dark Empire had the right idea with Emperor Palpatine in clone form going back into a younger fitter body lol.

I only had the very first comic but I seem to remember that Palps was pretty much exactly how he was in ROTJ when he appeared.

I will say I think the actors did a great job with what they were given, the music and sets were amazing, and visually the movies were spectacular. And in terms of ideas, TLJs subversions were interesting. They just don’t fit with Star Wars.

Word.

I figured "little Ani" would give her a relatable character inasmuch as there are no children to be seen in the OT. That's a big fat "NOPE". She says they're boring. Her favorites are TFA and Rogue One, but she really digs the OT and "handsome Luke".

This is why the corporate committee mindset of "give relatable inclusive characters" is rubbish. It's only there to satisfy other corporate committee minded people, the "target audience" doesn't give two tosses. As Plinkett said about shoving toddler jedi padawans in AOTC, kids want to be Han Solo and Luke Skywalker, nobody wants to be Blorbak Pronba, the Jedi child or that other twerp.

 

[cboath]

honestly if I were cloning myself, I’ll make myself look damn good too lol. Why would Palpatine go back to the old wrinkly body when he can at least look his prime? Dark Empire had the right idea with Emperor Palpatine in clone form going back into a younger fitter body lol.

Honestly, I feel this trilogy should have been a new IP with heavy influence from Star Wars instead of Star Wars (Disney owns the rights so they can’t sue themselves).

I will say I think the actors did a great job with what they were given, the music and sets were amazing, and visually the movies were spectacular. And in terms of ideas, TLJs subversions were interesting. They just don’t fit with Star Wars.

I don't disagree, but, they were on thin ice heading into RoS and NO ONE was going to buy the idea of a late 20's emperor. Would have worked had it been shown in 7, or maybe 8, but not springing it out of their butts in 9.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

This is why the corporate committee mindset of "give relatable inclusive characters" is rubbish. It's only there to satisfy other corporate committee minded people, the "target audience" doesn't give two tosses. As Plinkett said about shoving toddler jedi padawans in AOTC, kids want to be Han Solo and Luke Skywalker, nobody wants to be Blorbak Pronba, the Jedi child or that other twerp.

Eh. In that case, pandering tokenism is the issue. There's nothing wrong with being intentional about inclusion™ when the characters are well-written and serve an actual purpose in a story. I grew up looking up to all the same heroes that most of us here did, and they're all perfect just the way they are, but I'll be damned if it wouldn't have been freaking awesome if even just one of them looked like me.

 

[Treadwell]

I only had the very first comic but I seem to remember that Palps was pretty much exactly how he was in ROTJ when he appeared.

He means like this on the cover of Dark Empire issue 5:

 

[sztriki]

Eh. In that case, pandering tokenism is the issue. There's nothing wrong with being intentional about inclusion™ when the characters are well-written and serve an actual purpose in a story. I grew up looking up to all the same heroes that most of us here did, and they're all perfect just the way they are, but I'll be damned if it wouldn't have been freaking awesome if even just one of them looked like me.

I dunno, my biggest thing as a kid was the Doc, as a 5 yrs old I was wearing my bathrobe climbing up the staircase pretending I was him hanging from the clock tower and never once it bothered me that I didn't have long white hair...I also remember my friend's mum who was a massive fan of Stephen King and the like and she said she can't care less about the typical novels written for women about love and the like, she has that, she wants something that's out of the ordinary and compelling. So yea as long as the characters make sense in a well written story does it really matter what their gender, ethnicity, age is...? I really like Rey in TFA, does that make me a woman then?
And for the record I'm not arguing with you I'm just shooting the breeze.

He means like this on the cover of Dark Empire issue 5:

Oh so that bloke with the lightsaber is supposed to be yiung Palps? Odd choice putting the old face in the background. But yea as I said I only saw the very first comic which ended Luke kneeling before Monster Mash and pledging his allegiance tonthe Graveyard Smash so haven't followed through the whole story.

 

[HeartBlade]

Yeah. There is also a duel between Luke and Palpatine so it makes sense for Palps to be young (also invoked the image of Luke fighting against Palps in his prime which was cool).

I do agree that tokenism can make a character more popular to a certain demographic due to relatability but it’s a pro when comparing a great character. I don’t think many fans were roleplaying as short round when you can be Indiana Jones.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

I dunno, my biggest thing as a kid was the Doc, as a 5 yrs old I was wearing my bathrobe climbing up the staircase pretending I was him hanging from the clock tower and never once it bothered me that I didn't have long white hair...I also remember my friend's mum who was a massive fan of Stephen King and the like and she said she can't care less about the typical novels written for women about love and the like, she has that, she wants something that's out of the ordinary and compelling. So yea as long as the characters make sense in a well written story does it really matter what their gender, ethnicity, age is...? I really like Rey in TFA, does that make me a woman then?
And for the record I'm not arguing with you I'm just shooting the breeze.

I do agree that tokenism can make a character more popular to a certain demographic due to relatability but it’s a pro when comparing a great character. I don’t think many fans were roleplaying as short round when you can be Indiana Jones.

Not taking it at all personal.

No, liking a character has nothing to do with being a different gender, ethnicity, or age. It's just one of those things that can be taken for granted when it's the status quo. Like I said--Luke, Han, Superman, Batman, Indy, Rocky Balboa, etc.--heroes of mine, the lot of them. Liking them didn't make me any more white than liking Rey makes you a woman. I definitely would've been over the moon if there was a kick-ass, brown-skinned Puerto Rican hero/action star that I could pretend to be and look up to, though. It's an intangible thing, and very difficult to describe, but it's still very much a thing. Not having it, at the time, didn't diminish my enjoyment of those guys, I just know it would've been cool to not have to be some tertiary character when I played pretend with my friends because Superman and Batman aren't brown-skinned with wavy 'fros. None of that came from a mean-spirited place in my friend's hearts, and it's possibly no big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it is just a tiny example of why something like that matters.

That said, I don't read comic books anymore (and haven't in a looong time), but I LOVE the version of Miles Morales depicted in Into the Spider-verse. He looks like me! And he's not just an ethnic swap of Peter Parker. He's his own person, with his own story.

Sorry, that's more of a tangent than I wanted to go off on.

 

[Lord Boron]

So now Rey's father was a Palpatine clone? Is this bad high school level fan-fiction? They're clearly just making things up as they go along at this point. How do these people have jobs????

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

So now Rey's father was a Palpatine clone? Is this bad high school level fan-fiction? They're clearly just making things up as they go along at this point. How do these people have jobs????

Wait -- what are you talking about?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I'm almost more interested in why this Palp clone was suddenly "all the Sith". The more they try to explain this the less sense it makes really.

I get the feeling it's part of the succession. And also why Palpatine's body started putrefying (when he wasn't hiding the effect). When a new Sith Lord ascends, he absorbs the whole lineage that's gone before, Highlander-style. This might have been a thing that went all the way back to the old Sith Lords, or something that started with/after Bane and his Rule of Two.

But anyway, that there's a difference between an Apprentice Sith Lord deliberately and consciously preparing himself to absorb all that, and a blank clone body just having it all slammed into it with no preparation possible. There's also the chance Palpatine's original body would've started to look like that within a few more years of ROTJ anyway. He'd been the Master Sith Lord for at least forty years by that point (anyone know how long before TPM he ascended?). And his clone body had been containing all that Dark Side energy for more than thirty as of RoS.

 

[ghostryder]

Can someone please drop some knowledge one me? Who is the man pictured here supposed to be?