Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[Kylash]

It's still so weird to me that Palpy just looked like the normal actor with white makeup.... no exaggerated wrinkles like in ROTJ, nothing, just white makeup. And THEN after he gets their power, he gets all old looking. If that first one is meant to literally be Palpy from ROTJ with messed up fingers, why is his face not the same?

 

[Paul Andrew]

It's still so weird to me that Palpy just looked like the normal actor with white makeup.... no exaggerated wrinkles like in ROTJ, nothing, just white makeup. And THEN after he gets their power, he gets all old looking. If that first one is meant to literally be Palpy from ROTJ with messed up fingers, why is his face not the same?

I don't think it is meant to be OG Palp's body. I mean, fell down the shaft and then the death star exploded. Makes more sense to me that his body didn't survive and his spirit found it's way to Exegol where his acolytes had a fresh body in a tube waiting for him. Now, if you want to ask why he needed Rey's body, well then we can turn to the dialogue where he talks about she and Ben being a dyad, and then he sucks the force out of them to rejuvenate himself. Maybe cloning force sensitives isn't perfected, maybe the midichlorians don't transfer or regrow or whatever, so clone bodies have limited access to the force which would explain why he doesn't just create an infinite series of clones for himself to jump into. I dunno, wildly spitballing here with the best justifications I can story up to explain the how of it.
Perhaps in the Mandalorian's second season we'll find out about how the force relates to cloning in some way.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I don't think it is meant to be OG Palp's body. I mean, fell down the shaft and then the death star exploded. Makes more sense to me that his body didn't survive and his spirit found it's way to Exegol where his acolytes had a fresh body in a tube waiting for him. Now, if you want to ask why he needed Rey's body, well then we can turn to the dialogue where he talks about she and Ben being a dyad, and then he sucks the force out of them to rejuvenate himself. Maybe cloning force sensitives isn't perfected, maybe the midichlorians don't transfer or regrow or whatever, so clone bodies have limited access to the force which would explain why he doesn't just create an infinite series of clones for himself to jump into. I dunno, wildly spitballing here with the best justifications I can story up to explain the how of it.
Perhaps in the Mandalorian's second season we'll find out about how the force relates to cloning in some way.

Hopefully not, though. Let’s keep the Mandalorian good, and as far away from TROS as possible. It shouldn’t be the responsibility of other media to explain the plot holes and unanswered questions of IX

 

[Paul Andrew]

Hopefully not, though. Let’s keep the Mandalorian good, and as far away from TROS as possible. It shouldn’t be the responsibility of other media to explain the plot holes and unanswered questions of IX

Well, connective threads already exist which is why I brought it up.

Spoiler: Mando Spoilers

The scientist in the early episodes is wearing a uniform with a kaminoan patch, and the force healing thing happened nearly simultaneously between the show and the movie. I don't think it's a stretch to have some background detail come out that sheds light on cloning and the force during the course of the show

 

[tcsmit29]

I don't think it is meant to be OG Palp's body. I mean, fell down the shaft and then the death star exploded.

The death star didn't explode right away though. After Palps fell, Luke had time to drag Vader to the hangar, take off the mask so that Vader could play some killer blues harmonica before he expired, Luke then dragged the body onto a shuttle and took off. That's when the death star exploded.

Personally I agree with you that it is more reasonable that Palp's consciousness transferred to Exogul into another body. But I see some people argue pretty hard that there wasn't enough time for Palpy to escape. IMO there was time. I'm not firmly invested into either argument but I do tend to lean towards the scenario that you laid out.

 

[Paul Andrew]

The death star didn't explode right away though. After Palps fell, Luke had time to drag Vader to the hangar, take off the mask so that Vader could play some killer blues harmonica before he expired, Luke then dragged the body onto a shuttle and took off. That's when the death star exploded.

Personally I agree with you that it is more reasonable that Palp's consciousness transferred to Exogul into another body. But I see some people argue pretty hard that there wasn't enough time for Palpy to escape. IMO there was time. I'm not firmly invested into either argument but I do tend to lean towards the scenario that you laid out.

Certainly there was time if his body survived the fall, but the wave of explosive energy that comes out of the reactor shaft certainly implies that his body did some... reacting.

 

[Jagjaguwar]

But I see some people argue pretty hard that there wasn't enough time for Palpy to escape.

The issue of timeframes seems to come up quite a bit. It’s something people mention related to Rey’s lack of experience or short amount of training, among other things. But I think a lot of it makes more sense if you consider that each of these films isn’t some sort of uninterrupted, 2 hour snapshot of the galaxy, in real-time. Whether they’re presented well or not I’ve always assumed that there are time gaps in between what we may see on screen from scene to scene, and even that some of what we see may be playing out simultaneously. Otherwise there are issues beginning with the first movie and “the Death Star will be in range in 2 minutes,” which lasts 10 minutes (or however long it is exactly), and continues through to TROS, with Lando assembling an enormous fleet of randoms in minutes, if you go by screen time.

As for YouTube videos, I still tend to find most of the ones I’ve seen relating to Star Wars analysis to be overly reductive, too focused on moment-to-moment issues with individual parts of individual scenes, and too interspersed with random cutaway clips from others movies that are used as “responses,” in lieu of more in-depth discussion. Something is pointed out as dumb, the clip is inserted for laughs, and we move on to the next.

I suppose what I’d be more interested is more suited for a book than a video. Ah well.

 

[Kylash]

If that’s a new body then what about his messed up fingers? Hell, why not be a young new body?

 

[Paul Andrew]

If that’s a new body then what about his messed up fingers? Hell, why not be a young new body?

Got no good answers, but in the end it kind of doesn't matter. Clearly the body he's using isn't in top shape given the mechanical interface he's using, and it must be difficult or prohibitive to create new bodies all the time otherwise he wouldn't need Rey.

 

[Joek3rr]

It's still so weird to me that Palpy just looked like the normal actor with white makeup.... no exaggerated wrinkles like in ROTJ, nothing, just white makeup. And THEN after he gets their power, he gets all old looking. If that first one is meant to literally be Palpy from ROTJ with messed up fingers, why is his face not the same?

I would say that his wrinkly look is his true form. His body, twisted by the Dark Side.

 

[cboath]

Oh, give it a rest. Kylo had been shot with Chewie's bowcaster, which had been established to be incredibly powerful. He was literally bleeding during the entire fight.

Finn actually held his own for awhile before Rey got involved, and he had barely touched a lightsaber before in his life and had never once been established to have any melee training. Rey, on the other hand, was visibly shown to have combat training with her staff earlier in the film. Before Rey ever crossed a saber with Kylo, he was emotionally compromised, shot, and had already battled another person WHILE injured.

This argument is not just tired, it's necrotic.

He'd have to be near death for someone who never picked up a saber prior to 24 hours ago and had no clue what they were doing to be able to down him like that. Maybe the shot opens the door a bit, but a trader duelist, even hurt, should take down a total newb every time.

 

[cboath]

Got no good answers, but in the end it kind of doesn't matter. Clearly the body he's using isn't in top shape given the mechanical interface he's using, and it must be difficult or prohibitive to create new bodies all the time otherwise he wouldn't need Rey.

I got the impression that his presence in the body was causing it to deteriorate and he need to move into a permanent body - one already developed on it's own he could inhabit and wouldn't damage it. Or possibly his being in any body damages it and he'd have to move to another over time. If he made his way to that body, it could have been 30+ years ago that he's been eating away at it.

 

[Jagjaguwar]

Yeah, while the movie makes it seem like Palpatine has just popped back into the picture suddenly, I get the sense that there wasn’t much of a gap between when he “died” at the end of ROTJ, and when his followers started working on all the things they were working on. Same idea makes the giant star destroyer fleet work better, in my head. It’s not like they were built in 6 months. It’s been happening for a long time.

And there’s a line from Rose that I caught last night that I found interesting: she says something like “I’m staying behind to study old star destroyer schematics for weaknesses.” (Not a direct quote, but that’s the gist.) Made me wonder a bit if Palpatine had put the giant SD fleet idea into motion prior to his “death” in ROTJ, even... But sadly I’m guessing that’s putting more thought into things than the people who threw the movie together... Interesting to consider in any case. The emperor always did seem to be two steps ahead of everyone else with his plans.

 

[Joek3rr]

but a trader duelist, even hurt, should take down a total newb every time.

That might be how it works in the real world. But in the fantasy world of Star Wars, not so much. Because if that were the case, there is absolutely no way Luke should have ever bested Darth Vader in ROTJ.

 

[Halliwax]

As for the fleet, I thought the final order ships were all surviving ships from the fall of the empire?

 

[HeartBlade]

Th

That might be how it works in the real world. But in the fantasy world of Star Wars, not so much. Because if that were the case, there is absolutely no way Luke should have ever bested Darth Vader in ROTJ.

Luke has training and was fueled by the rage from the threat to his sister’s life, namely that she would be turned to the dark side. He was losing pretty badly before then against a 50 year old man.

Luke also gets annihilated instantly by Palpatine and can literally only beg his father for help, showing that Star Wars doesn’t always go good guys win at the end guaranteed.

the thing is Star Wars has also focused on skill over raw talent in past fights as well. Sure there were flukes like Obi wan beating Maul in episode 1 but Dooku made easy work of both Obi Wan and Anakin despite Anakin being the chosen one. The more skillful and powerful Anakin also lost to Obi wan in episode 3 due to his arrogance and underestimating the high ground way.

But Star Wars in the past has not shied away from skill triumphing talent and the good guys not always being strong enough to defeat evil.

 

[Mr Webber]

MauLer says it pretty well

His forensic takes are always brilliant, he even did a two parter for TLJ, was a lot to ridicule on that one. Regularly pulls 10K for his live streams and isnt even on camera.

For a movie that has had so many multiple viewings if you just go off what many are saying here then TRoS should have smashed the Billion mark by now surely. Truth is its going to limp to that line if it reaches it at all. Some analysts are claiming it wont even best R1`s worldwide box office and will finish roughly $250 million behind TLJ.

 

[Toadmeister]

His forensic takes are always brilliant, he even did a two parter for TLJ, was a lot to ridicule on that one. Regularly pulls 10K for his live streams and isnt even on camera.

For a movie that has had so many multiple viewings if you just go off what many are saying here then TRoS should have smashed the Billion mark by now surely. Truth is its going to limp to that line if it reaches it at all. Some analysts are claiming it wont even best R1`s worldwide box office and will finish roughly $250 million behind TLJ.

$250 million isn't Pocket change even for Disney.

Time for a good ol fashioned restructuring of top management.

 

[Jagjaguwar]

As for the fleet, I thought the final order ships were all surviving ships from the fall of the empire?

This would’ve made a lot of sense, and works with my theory above, I guess.

...except that all the SD’s have those dumb mini Death Star lasers on them, and they’re apparently a different/new class of ship (Xyston, apparently named by someone who was a fan of Ancient Greek weaponry...), according to..... whatever extraneous dictionary book of some sort that all these details are being filled in with. Dumb, IMO.

Wading a bit into the weeds, it doesn’t even seem possible that all these new ships were just modified with the big ventral gun replacing the main hangar bay (which would have been a more plausible task for whoever was doing all this work on Exogul), as the lengths of the two classes don’t seem to match up. But here again, I think I’m giving this more thought than the writers did, so I’ll leave it there.

 

[ConvergencePro]

Don’t worry guys! All the unanswered questions in this trilogy will be answered in The Mandalorian S2!
Omg I hate it...