Don't count on it. As long as Disney sets release dates, before they even have a story, we're boned.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Don't count on it. As long as Disney sets release dates, before they even have a story, we're boned.
Jaitea
Master Member
Zuiun
Sr Member
The, as you put it, "real Star Wars movies" contradict themselves and fans (and GL) have been doing mental gymnastics from the beginning to justify it. So what's your point? Star Wars as a whole is nonsense. It always has been, it always will be. That's not to say I don't love it and enjoy it, but it's all nonsense.
Solo4114
Master Member
The Reylo thing was not effectively earned, nor was Ben's turn to the light. They could have done all of that, but it probably needed another 2-4 films to really breathe and develop. I'm not surprised that Disney and JJ shoehorned the whole thing into a single film and tied it up with a bow, but it was unearned. Props to Adam and Daisy for selling it as well as anyone could, but the story itself was pretty undercooked in both instances.
In each of the three Star Wars trilogies -- OT, PT, and ST -- they all suffer from rushed endings and all feel like we should've seen a ton of other stuff occurring to lead up to the big finale. The OT is probably the most insulated from this, but the PT and ST both give you narrative whiplash with how quickly they move to resolve themselves.
All of this has led me to believe that trilogies generally are not a great format for telling stories. You can pull it off in some instances, but you're better off just letting the story take as long as it naturally takes to get to an end point. Either that or you need to really tightly manage your story across three films, which is apparently a lot harder than it seems.
In each of the three Star Wars trilogies -- OT, PT, and ST -- they all suffer from rushed endings and all feel like we should've seen a ton of other stuff occurring to lead up to the big finale. The OT is probably the most insulated from this, but the PT and ST both give you narrative whiplash with how quickly they move to resolve themselves.
All of this has led me to believe that trilogies generally are not a great format for telling stories. You can pull it off in some instances, but you're better off just letting the story take as long as it naturally takes to get to an end point. Either that or you need to really tightly manage your story across three films, which is apparently a lot harder than it seems.
I finally got around to watching Michael’s entire video and agree with every point that he makes, so much so, that there is nothing more for me to add on the subject of this film that offers any additional insight.
I am sure that I am not alone in regarding the bulk of the discussions regarding this film (some of it in this very thread) as having become a tiresome ping pong match of legitimate criticism of this film being met by a zealous need by defenders to dispute everything that was unsatisfactory for some in terms of character, plot, music, dialogue, continuity, etc. (to Michael’s point in the video).
It should be enough to say that this film clearly failed to meet expectations for some and happily met expectations others.
Debating personal taste, levels of criticism, and subjective experiences is as pointless as trying to tell me that I should prefer the color red as my favorite color when I keep proclaiming my favorite color to be blue.
I personally found the film to be an embarrassing, disappointing, abysmal, mess; however, it doesn’t hurt me that others clearly love the film. Likewise, for those of you who love this film, it shouldn’t diminish your love that others dislike the film.
Anyway...
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Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
If we’ve gotten to the point where the majority (hey, I’m sure there are still people who will take issue with this, somehow
) can agree on this point, then I think we’ve achieved something. In years of discussion about Force Awakens and especially Last Jedi, even getting to this conclusion seemed more or less impossible.
Axlotl
Master Member
Trilogies are an excellent format for telling stories: Beginning, middle, and end. That's how stories are written.
Trilogies fail when there's no coherent, cohesive story to tell.
Jaitea
Master Member
Yes indeed there are a few inconsistencies in the Lucas films, but this one & when viewed as a trilogy is bonkers....as I said before,...it's enjoyable,...but trying to find logic & understanding the lore of them really is grasping at straws
J
Bigdaddy
Master Member
We've got 3 separate stories, told in 3 separate trilogies, all made by different groups of people. It's why I do a mental eye roll every time I hear about this being the conclusion to "a story". Whether you like any or all films with the Star Wars name on it, it's glaringly obvious that it isn't a single story.
The ST is literally fan fiction, some fans like it and some don't but that doesn't change what it is.
Joek3rr
Master Member
But we know that's not entirely true. Look at the OT. It's not always very cohesive. I mean you got Obi-Wan telling Luke Vader killed his father(which was the truth at that time). The next film Obi-Wan is skirting around the truth telling "from a certain point of view." Then you have Luke kissing Leia in one film. And in the next film Luke telling her she is his sister. In one film the Emperor is chimp eyed old lady mouthed creep. In the next he's a guy who looks nothing nor sounds nothing like the Emperor from the previous film.
If anything the OT shows us. You need one guy with a crazy imagination. A bunch of people who can make that guys imagination come to life. And an audience of impressionable kids.
And dare I say it. I think the PT actually tells the most coherent and cohesive story out of all 3 Star Wars trilogies. Say what you will about the dialogue choices, and the acting. George had that story pretty well thought out.
sztriki
Sr Member
George Lucas, I present you with the "Totally and Completely Understands Women trophy"! You've earned it my friend, you've earned it.
Axlotl
Master Member
No, it's not. But that's because good ole Uncle George was lying through his teeth about having it all plotted out for 6 or 9 or 12 films.
ANH was a stand-alone one-off that he never expected to be as successful as it ended up being.
The sequel was written by Leigh Brackett (NOT GL), and the sequel to that sequel was written by Lawrence Kasdan (also not GL).
There's some dumb stuff in it (which just proves GL didn't have a plan), but as a whole the trilogy absolutely works as a single story.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
I really think George caught lightning in a bottle, with his first trilogy. And I think Kathleen was hoping to do the same.
Mr Webber
Master Member
I would say that Lucas would at least give some frame of reference before trying to pull off such an incredible leap. He would have included at least a small scene of Rey actually reading the Jedi books ( You put forward earlier that she had the books and therefore learned the ability which means any Jedi can learn the ability, not restricting it to a special few) and putting something from it in to action, some form of practice or experiment to show the audience there is a foundation to this so yes, I probably would have bought it. Hypothetically.
Its entirely irrelevant if the end of ROTJ had an ending with Ben and Yoda helping Luke because it didn't happen. No one makes a film connected to the Star Wars universe with just one draft.....oh wait
Correct, that was a typo as Vader was the topic at the time, I meant Obi Wan. I feel once we get into the raising of the dead territory or mystical healing, applying recognized medical principles to their application kind of become redundant. Technically Padme was exposed to a constriction of her airways that rendered her unconscious which may have escalated other issues involving a heavily pregnant woman. Point is, there was more than enough motivation for Obi Wan to at least try and save her seeing that the father was either dead or dying in his mind if this power was at all available to him, a Jedi Master.
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el toro
Sr Member
So I wonder how accurate this reddit report is re: Disney’s meddling:
Disney meddling in JJ’s final product
Disney meddling in JJ’s final product
robn1
Master Member
One tiny little bit of dialog in TLJ, with Snoke telling Rey that she's an especially powerful force user that comes along once in a millennium (you know, an explanation) would have been enough for it all to make sense. But that would require a clever writer.
Paul Andrew
Master Member
No disagreement here. A single writer, or continuous group over the trilogy, would have gone a long way toward making these films feel like part of a whole.
Posted already a few pages back (p. 44). Just an FYI.
JoMamma_Smurf
Master Member
Saw it for a second time with my brother who didn't see it yet. His first words when the credits rolled were "That was way better than the last one!" and he's exactly right. I enjoyed this movie even more the second time I saw it. It's not perfect by any means. They created a LOT of new force abilities but I really have fun watching this movie. I HATED everything I read about this movie when the rumors were confirmed but when I watch it.. I enjoy it!! It's a Star Wars film with some Indiana Jones and some Goonies woven into it. It's heavy on the nostalgia and the fan service as well. I personally like that WAY more than "subverting expectations".
This film is getting way more hate than it deserves because the last 2 films were so horrible that it set this one up for failure. I truly believe that a lot of the fandom would have enjoyed this movie more if they didn't let the hate of Solo and TLJ consume them. I predict that the Blu-ray and digital sales will be FAR greater than TLJ and Solo and the angry fans will come around and will start to give this movie more credit.
This film is getting way more hate than it deserves because the last 2 films were so horrible that it set this one up for failure. I truly believe that a lot of the fandom would have enjoyed this movie more if they didn't let the hate of Solo and TLJ consume them. I predict that the Blu-ray and digital sales will be FAR greater than TLJ and Solo and the angry fans will come around and will start to give this movie more credit.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I think the implication is she learned that from the ancient Jedi texts. Not that matters much, as 'baby Yoda' is Force healing without any book learning, that we know of.
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