Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker?


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Because Disney honors Star Wars canon in pretty much the same way Alex Kurtzman honors Star Trek's canon when making Discovery.

That's not fair. The canon of SW is about 6 movies and the ST one is way bigger and full with things people are trying to forget.
The Reylo thing was not effectively earned, nor was Ben's turn to the light. They could have done all of that, but it probably needed another 2-4 films to really breathe and develop. I'm not surprised that Disney and JJ shoehorned the whole thing into a single film and tied it up with a bow, but it was unearned. Props to Adam and Daisy for selling it as well as anyone could, but the story itself was pretty undercooked in both instances.

In each of the three Star Wars trilogies -- OT, PT, and ST -- they all suffer from rushed endings and all feel like we should've seen a ton of other stuff occurring to lead up to the big finale. The OT is probably the most insulated from this, but the PT and ST both give you narrative whiplash with how quickly they move to resolve themselves.

All of this has led me to believe that trilogies generally are not a great format for telling stories. You can pull it off in some instances, but you're better off just letting the story take as long as it naturally takes to get to an end point. Either that or you need to really tightly manage your story across three films, which is apparently a lot harder than it seems.

But what format is it. Thinking of your post, I thought about series. But there a lot of great series with bad/rushed endings. GoT as an actual example.
Young people liked the ST and I'm talking about people who can keep focused on stuff less than ten seconds. And the ST is exactly for that crows that does not think anymore and just keeps smiling about what they've seen.

I've not so many problems if something is a bit out of canon, but I really hate that miserable story telling that we're presented. And that is not an exclusive SW problem.
 
Trilogies are an excellent format for telling stories: Beginning, middle, and end. That's how stories are written.

Trilogies fail when there's no coherent, cohesive story to tell.

As I said in my post, they can work if they are tightly planned and told in a really crisp manner. But I think the restrictions of runtimes (2-2.5hrs) don't really allow enough time for characters to develop as effectively as they could, and therefore to sell the dramatic moments. You can run through a trilogy that ticks off various plot points and which will flow neatly from A-to-B-to-C, but it'll lack a lot of the development necessary to earn character moments and it'll end up feeling rushed.

There's also something to be said for how each individual installment handles issues of pacing and providing opportunities for their characters to develop so that they can earn those moments.

Ben's redemption arc is a perfect example. (I'm not even touching on Reylo, given how massively out of left field that felt to me.) In the first film, we set up Ben as conflicted. He knows he still has a spark of good in himself, and he's trying to extinguish it. What does he do? He murders his own father. In the second film, he feels a strong connection to Rey, but also seeks to exterminate the past. The film continues his downward spiral towards evil, and ends with him arguably at the bottom of that spiral, having embraced evil and his desire to utterly destroy the past and rule the galaxy with an iron fist.

In ROS, we start out with him in this deeply evil place, but his turn back to good happens incredibly abruptly, and then he is all in on being good again. The justification is apparently that Rey kills Kylo Ren, and resurrects Ben in the process when she heals him. So, basically, she stabs him, lays hands on him, shouts "DEMONS, BEGONE!!!" in her best hellfire-and-brimstone-preacher voice, and presto-changeo, Ben's back! Huzzah! Not only that, but he's back to kick ass for the light side and he's all out of bubblegum.

You can tick off these points in three films. But making them feel genuinely earned is the real trick, and they don't in these films. Now, some of that is because we're busy chasing Rathtars, and going on jaunts to Canto Bight, and hyperspace skipping and going to Space Diwali, etc., etc., etc. But all of that stuff is necessary to keep the films from bogging down. They kinda need to be action-packed.

But that's just it: you really can only pick one and do it effectively. You can have an action-packed, thrilling rollercoaster ride, but you won't get a ton of great character development, and your conclusions will likely feel rushed. They'll be thrilling, but they often won't feel earned. Alternatively, you can spend the time within each film to try to earn them, but your film will start to drag or be overly long if you try to do it all in one go.

That's why I think you either need to keep the story really tight and very, very carefully balanced between plot/action and character development, or you just have to accept that a bunch of your moments aren't really gonna survive much close-up scrutiny. Or you have to abandon the trilogy format.

But what format is it. Thinking of your post, I thought about series. But there a lot of great series with bad/rushed endings. GoT as an actual example.
Young people liked the ST and I'm talking about people who can keep focused on stuff less than ten seconds. And the ST is exactly for that crows that does not think anymore and just keeps smiling about what they've seen.

I've not so many problems if something is a bit out of canon, but I really hate that miserable story telling that we're presented. And that is not an exclusive SW problem.

GoT has its own problems that I won't get into here, but yes, it suffered from rushed storytelling, too, and an over-reliance on "Rule of Cool." Most people I know were not happy with the ending. But that show had also changed dramatically from what it started as into what it ultimately became, and suffered as a result. People went in with a particular set of expectations, and the show runners screwed them by not living up to them.

With the ST, I think...honestly, people are fine with it because they treat it all just as a big popcorn movie. And on that level, the ST basically works. Certainly ROS does. It doesn't really try to be anything more than that. It knows the audience doesn't really care that a lot of its emotional beats aren't earned within the narrative, and are more piggybacking on meta-narrative things like your own love of certain characters. It doesn't care. The film knows what audiences want, gives it to them, and invites them to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

If you go into it with that attitude, it delivers. If you want something more, something more meaningful, a better work of art....you're lookin' at the wrong movies, pal. That's not to say Star Wars can't be that, but rather that was never JJ's goal. It never is in any of his films, really.
 
As I said in my post, they can work if they are tightly planned and told in a really crisp manner. But I think the restrictions of runtimes (2-2.5hrs) don't really allow enough time for characters to develop as effectively as they could, and therefore to sell the dramatic moments. You can run through a trilogy that ticks off various plot points and which will flow neatly from A-to-B-to-C, but it'll lack a lot of the development necessary to earn character moments and it'll end up feeling rushed.
Well, BTTF, OT, LOTR, POTC managed to pull it off with a trilogy mostly successfully (I'm looking at you ROTJ and POTC). BTTF, OT and POC were all sort of winging it as neither of them really had the whole trilogy arc planned when the first movie was made so it's not like trilogies can't be done (I know that's not what you meant). That being said we're not talking about a big expanded franchise, it was just three movies for all of them back in the day. With this IP at this current age it indeed would have been imperative to plan it tightly.

GoT has its own problems that I won't get into here, but yes, it suffered from rushed storytelling, too, and an over-reliance on "Rule of Cool." Most people I know were not happy with the ending. But that show had also changed dramatically from what it started as into what it ultimately became, and suffered as a result. People went in with a particular set of expectations, and the show runners screwed them by not living up to them.
Would you say that your expectations were...SUBVERTED?! ;):lol:
With the ST, I think...honestly, people are fine with it because they treat it all just as a big popcorn movie. And on that level, the ST basically works. Certainly ROS does. It doesn't really try to be anything more than that. It knows the audience doesn't really care that a lot of its emotional beats aren't earned within the narrative, and are more piggybacking on meta-narrative things like your own love of certain characters. It doesn't care. The film knows what audiences want, gives it to them, and invites them to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

If you go into it with that attitude, it delivers. If you want something more, something more meaningful, a better work of art....you're lookin' at the wrong movies, pal. That's not to say Star Wars can't be that, but rather that was never JJ's goal. It never is in any of his films, really.
Totally agree. Although my reasons are different as my enthusiasm went down the toilet after TLJ I went in to see TROS with an "eh whatever here goes nothing" mindset and I had a decent time for the Saturday afternoon and that's about it.
 
As I said in my post, they can work if they are tightly planned and told in a really crisp manner. But I think the restrictions of runtimes (2-2.5hrs) don't really allow enough time for characters to develop as effectively as they could, and therefore to sell the dramatic moments. You can run through a trilogy that ticks off various plot points and which will flow neatly from A-to-B-to-C, but it'll lack a lot of the development necessary to earn character moments and it'll end up feeling rushed.

There's also something to be said for how each individual installment handles issues of pacing and providing opportunities for their characters to develop so that they can earn those moments.

Ben's redemption arc is a perfect example. (I'm not even touching on Reylo, given how massively out of left field that felt to me.) In the first film, we set up Ben as conflicted. He knows he still has a spark of good in himself, and he's trying to extinguish it. What does he do? He murders his own father. In the second film, he feels a strong connection to Rey, but also seeks to exterminate the past. The film continues his downward spiral towards evil, and ends with him arguably at the bottom of that spiral, having embraced evil and his desire to utterly destroy the past and rule the galaxy with an iron fist.

In ROS, we start out with him in this deeply evil place, but his turn back to good happens incredibly abruptly, and then he is all in on being good again. The justification is apparently that Rey kills Kylo Ren, and resurrects Ben in the process when she heals him. So, basically, she stabs him, lays hands on him, shouts "DEMONS, BEGONE!!!" in her best hellfire-and-brimstone-preacher voice, and presto-changeo, Ben's back! Huzzah! Not only that, but he's back to kick ass for the light side and he's all out of bubblegum.

You can tick off these points in three films. But making them feel genuinely earned is the real trick, and they don't in these films. Now, some of that is because we're busy chasing Rathtars, and going on jaunts to Canto Bight, and hyperspace skipping and going to Space Diwali, etc., etc., etc. But all of that stuff is necessary to keep the films from bogging down. They kinda need to be action-packed.

But that's just it: you really can only pick one and do it effectively. You can have an action-packed, thrilling rollercoaster ride, but you won't get a ton of great character development, and your conclusions will likely feel rushed. They'll be thrilling, but they often won't feel earned. Alternatively, you can spend the time within each film to try to earn them, but your film will start to drag or be overly long if you try to do it all in one go.

That's why I think you either need to keep the story really tight and very, very carefully balanced between plot/action and character development, or you just have to accept that a bunch of your moments aren't really gonna survive much close-up scrutiny. Or you have to abandon the trilogy format.



GoT has its own problems that I won't get into here, but yes, it suffered from rushed storytelling, too, and an over-reliance on "Rule of Cool." Most people I know were not happy with the ending. But that show had also changed dramatically from what it started as into what it ultimately became, and suffered as a result. People went in with a particular set of expectations, and the show runners screwed them by not living up to them.

With the ST, I think...honestly, people are fine with it because they treat it all just as a big popcorn movie. And on that level, the ST basically works. Certainly ROS does. It doesn't really try to be anything more than that. It knows the audience doesn't really care that a lot of its emotional beats aren't earned within the narrative, and are more piggybacking on meta-narrative things like your own love of certain characters. It doesn't care. The film knows what audiences want, gives it to them, and invites them to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

If you go into it with that attitude, it delivers. If you want something more, something more meaningful, a better work of art....you're lookin' at the wrong movies, pal. That's not to say Star Wars can't be that, but rather that was never JJ's goal. It never is in any of his films, really.

Personally for me I think a slightly better redemption arc for Ben. Not that I don't like Leia doing all she can to bring him back. But I think something better would have been, have Ben kill Rey. And that is the point he relinquishes the Dark Side, and then gives his life to resurrect Rey.
 
Well, BTTF, OT, LOTR, POTC managed to pull it off with a trilogy mostly successfully (I'm looking at you ROTJ and POTC). BTTF, OT and POC were all sort of winging it as neither of them really had the whole trilogy arc planned when the first movie was made so it's not like trilogies can't be done (I know that's not what you meant). That being said we're not talking about a big expanded franchise, it was just three movies for all of them back in the day. With this IP at this current age it indeed would have been imperative to plan it tightly.

Ok, so, as you say, BTTF isn't exactly a purpose-built trilogy. It started as a standalone film, and then added two sequels. The LOTR -- the books at least -- were written as a single mega-novel, which was broken into three smaller novels for publishing reasons. As novels, they also suffer from some serious pacing issues what with Tolkein's love of throwing in a song or poem, and then going on at length about the landscape. As films...I think it kinda depends on the versions you watch. I found ROTK to have similar "It all wrapped up a little too conveniently" feel in the theatrical version. The extended version, though, I enjoy -- but that only serves to highlight my point: the extended versions each run about 4 hrs long. Way longer than what most audiences will sit through. Regardless, the films themselves were adaptations of source material that was itself a single novel and thus a single coherent narrative. So, you can build a single narrative and then chop it into three parts, but that's not exactly the same as building three somewhat self-contained films and having them build upon each other to form a larger narrative.

As for the OT, it is quite enjoyable, but let's not pretend that the ultimate resolution would not have benefited from probably another 2-4 films to develop things. At the end of The Empire Strikes Back, Luke is badly wounded, Han is in carbonite, we don't know that Luke and Leia are brother and sister yet (so hey, who knows, they might hook up, given the FAIRLY PASSIONATE AND RETROSPECTIVELY DEEPLY WEIRD KISS they shared in ESB). And then in ROTJ, Luke is this mostly serene Jedi because...I guess he declared himself one? His passion and recklessness are completely gone as character flaws, he's apparently mastered the Force, and according to Yoda there's nothing more that he can be trained to learn.

The characters in the OT develop some, but they aren't especially complex to begin with. And really, aside from some stuff in ESB, there's no attempt to make them more complex. Like TFA and ROS, the OT is largely content to give you characters who do things without really going through the kinds of experiences where it would make sense that they'd change. The OT does a better job (I'd argue) than the ST does at establishing what creates this sense of connection between the characters (Finn and Poe, Finn and Rey, Rey and Chewbacca, Rey and Han, etc.), but we just kind of...accept it, because it's that sort of movie, and this is what's supposed to happen.

At the end of the OT, I'd say they basically take the story and wrap it up with a bow. The film has its distinct "fairy tale ending" precisely because it refuses to even begin to consider the broader implication of the events from the film. Han and Leia are in love now and will probably marry. Luke is a Jedi master now and will probably teach other students. The Empire is utterly defeated and the new Republic will probably rise. There's no sense of any lingering conflict, it's just "Hooray! We blew up the big bad space station again, and now we just win!"

And that's all fine, but it's not really...earned by what happens in the films. I mean, it's not like that ending comes completely out of left field to the point where there's zero connection to the events that precede it, but it still feels pretty abrupt and like there could easily have been a longer struggle to reach that point, as well as more time for the characters to have experiences that gradually built them to the points where they are by the end of the films.

Would you say that your expectations were...SUBVERTED?! ;):lol:

No, I was just disappointed, honestly. I mean, I accepted some of the flaws in the show and its shortcomings, but man. That ending....they really **** the bed with that one.

Totally agree. Although my reasons are different as my enthusiasm went down the toilet after TLJ I went in to see TROS with an "eh whatever here goes nothing" mindset and I had a decent time for the Saturday afternoon and that's about it.

Yeah, I think most people start at that point and....pretty much just stay there. They aren't hardcore fans of the franchise like we are, but they're fans in a general sense, and for them, it's just an enjoyable story and that's enough. They don't need anything more than that. These are the same people who love the films, but really don't care if Han shoots first or not. To them, it's like "Eh, whatever. Long as the rest of the movie is still entertaining."

For folks like us, that's a hard concept to imagine, but those people really do exist.
 
Personally for me I think a slightly better redemption arc for Ben. Not that I don't like Leia doing all she can to bring him back. But I think something better would have been, have Ben kill Rey. And that is the point he relinquishes the Dark Side, and then gives his life to resurrect Rey.

Would Like that, too. But without the resurrection part.
 
Personally for me I think a slightly better redemption arc for Ben. Not that I don't like Leia doing all she can to bring him back. But I think something better would have been, have Ben kill Rey. And that is the point he relinquishes the Dark Side, and then gives his life to resurrect Rey.
I actually really like this idea, so it's not a diss at it or you...but somehow I just thought of Elmer Fudd when Daffy or Bugs pretends to be shot and Elmer starts crying and "what have I done" and even as a kid I was yelling at the screen saying "THAT'S WHAT YOU ALWAYS WANTED, YOU MORON!!!". :lol:
Ok, so, as you say, BTTF isn't exactly a purpose-built trilogy. It started as a standalone film, and then added two sequels. The LOTR -- the books at least -- were written as a single mega-novel, which was broken into three smaller novels for publishing reasons. As novels, they also suffer from some serious pacing issues what with Tolkein's love of throwing in a song or poem, and then going on at length about the landscape. As films...I think it kinda depends on the versions you watch. I found ROTK to have similar "It all wrapped up a little too conveniently" feel in the theatrical version. The extended version, though, I enjoy -- but that only serves to highlight my point: the extended versions each run about 4 hrs long. Way longer than what most audiences will sit through. Regardless, the films themselves were adaptations of source material that was itself a single novel and thus a single coherent narrative. So, you can build a single narrative and then chop it into three parts, but that's not exactly the same as building three somewhat self-contained films and having them build upon each other to form a larger narrative.
That's actually true, adapting a story is a different thing and you can work things around to make the narrative, pacing etc fit. I have been watching the extended cuts for many years and I just caught ROTK on telly the other day and found that tons of the scenes that were cut from the theatrical cut were cut for a reason. Apart from Fellowship I'm starting to lean slightly towards the theatrical versions for the other two. But that's a different discussion.
As for the OT [...]
That I agree as well, hence my asterisk over Jedi. ANH has everyone's little arcs, ESB manages to take them further but ROTJ kinda drops with all the focus on Luke (with a lot of hmmm moments there too). Han and Leia effectively stand next to a door for the best part of the movie and yea we blew up the danger egg again so we won big time forever...uhm...and that happy sappy ending would have just been okay if it was left as it is, 3 movies, space fairy tale but it just grew into this monstrosity of pop culture phenomenon that cannot stop going forward. :lol:

No, I was just disappointed, honestly. I mean, I accepted some of the flaws in the show and its shortcomings, but man. That ending....they really **** the bed with that one.
I know, I wasn't as active in the GOT thread but I did read the comments and we're totally on the same page. Yet there's tons of people saying it makes perfect sense. So there ya go, that's how it feels to be me with TLJ. :lol:

Yeah, I think most people start at that point and....pretty much just stay there. They aren't hardcore fans of the franchise like we are, but they're fans in a general sense, and for them, it's just an enjoyable story and that's enough. They don't need anything more than that. These are the same people who love the films, but really don't care if Han shoots first or not. To them, it's like "Eh, whatever. Long as the rest of the movie is still entertaining."

For folks like us, that's a hard concept to imagine, but those people really do exist.
It's not that hard to imagine for me. I'm similar with Marvel movies. Seen 3-4 and yea okay. Moving on.

Can I just say that I was genuinely anticipating the point when you would have seen TROS and entered the discussion? (y)
 
I feel like the OT and ST are two very different beasts for 2 different types of generations.

There's absolutely no question that I feel like I understand and know the characters in the originals. It would also be fair to say that anyone would agree after watching them could easily explain them. The only things that come into discussion of the originals are typically the questioning of the mysteries of the force or history, or other things that are the details we all have nerded out on for years. The movies' stories and actions otherwise made pretty good sense.

To me, the new movies do have many of the problems some have mentioned here, and they are extremely disjointed acts for a 3-part story. I don't feel like we got enough time to really fully understand anyone, and despite my love for a handful of characters in those films, I don't feel like I got to know them. The modern audience who loved these 3 films don't seem to find as much value in those elements of the deeper storytelling and fill those holes in on their own in whatever way they want because that part of the films aren't as overly critical to them. And I suppose that's okay. Those fans are connecting with it the way they want to, but other fans bash on them instead of letting them like it.

I'm living in a time where I have a family and my son thinks Minecraft, Roblox, and Fortnite is better than Star Wars. He'd also rather watch other people play video games on YouTube than immerse himself into a great TV Show or series of movies or books, but I do appreciate and love that he is his own person who has his likes and interests, and that I haven't forced him to like something because I do. I'll always explain myself if he questions me on something, but if at the end of the day he thinks He-Man and Skeletor is dumb and that the Ender Dragon is better then so be it. I can't stand Minecraft, but it's just not my thing, nor was my time when I may have otherwise latched on to that idea.

Now I don't even know where I was going with all this.....
 
Now granted, it's never been explicitly stated that this was "Force healing" but it has long been accepted...
That said, if it was, it works on a completely different scale and in a completely different way than seen in TROS.
Healing a concussion?
Sure.. why not
Healing serious wounds and leaving no scars... heck, healing scars and doing so BY MOVING YOUR LIFE-FORCE INTO THEM?
nah, moving life-force was always a sith power and is still speculated to be the cause of Padme's death (and Anakin's survival).
 

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Personally for me I think a slightly better redemption arc for Ben. Not that I don't like Leia doing all she can to bring him back. But I think something better would have been, have Ben kill Rey. And that is the point he relinquishes the Dark Side, and then gives his life to resurrect Rey.


I think it'd have been better if they had Anakin show up and figure out how to do the healing in that way (maybe through Rey) and bring Ben back from the dead. Maybe perhaps giving up his ability to have an identity in the Force as a ghost etc, to do it, therefore finally learning how it was done, not from a Jedi, but from his love of his grandson who is not a Jedi nor ever a Sith. Then Ben actually kills Palpatine.

For me, that'd still keep Anakin as a powerful force user and Jedi, who finally learns unselfish love and how to let go. Whilst keeping the whole PT prophecy arc going, and still being the reason Palpatine was beaten (twice by his actions).
 
i feel ther are 2 different perceptions of this movie that are being conflated into 1.

1) RoS as a popcorn blockbuster is a decent movie. It has action, flashy fight scenes, cool FX scenes. If you want to watch stuff blow up and cool sword fights, it’s a good movie. Miles better than TLJ and the best of the ST. Given what JJ had to work with, he did an amazing job.

2) as a narrative, it’s terrible but I blame RJ and KK for the mess. Essentially, the ST was a pie but instead of putting in sugar, RJ dumped a bunch of meat and salt to “subvert our expectations” that a pie is a dessert. JJ did his best to make a mince meat pie out of the resulting mess.

I do think Rey is the big problem though. She is incredibly boring because she honestly doesn’t struggle. Here is an easy litmus test: name a main character and a bad judgement call they made that they then had to suffer for later in the story. Luke, Anakin, Obi wan, Han, Leia all have such experiences. Rey does not.
 
I think what makes this notion pretty sour and unbelievable for many, given the circumstances and fatalities of other characters in the presence of others with Jedi powers of previous films and shows, is that after thousands of years of the existence of the Jedi that it was only recently discovered, revealed and used post-ROTJ to save lives in life-threatening situations.

Obviously Obi-Wan didn't know how to use it with Qui-Gon.
Luke couldn't use it to save his father.
Palpatine couldn't use it to heal Anakin's burn wounds (though would argue this is a light side power)
 
I think what makes this notion pretty sour and unbelievable for many, given the circumstances and fatalities of other characters in the presence of others with Jedi powers of previous films and shows, is that after thousands of years of the existence of the Jedi that it was only recently discovered, revealed and used post-ROTJ to save lives in life-threatening situations.

Obviously Obi-Wan didn't know how to use it with Qui-Gon.
Luke couldn't use it to save his father.
Palpatine couldn't use it to heal Anakin's burn wounds (though would argue this is a light side power)

This is why for me Anakin being involved in it, would've perhaps lessened the issue with it, as it could've easily been explained as being due to him being a special case when it comes to the Force.
 
This is why for me Anakin being involved in it, would've perhaps lessened the issue with it, as it could've easily been explained as being due to him being a special case when it comes to the Force.

I would agree there, but then it would need to be explained with a certain other character from another show how it was discovered and used
The Mandalorian
 
I would agree there, but then it would need to be explained with a certain other character from another show how it was discovered and used
The Mandalorian

I think it could be done if they went along the lines of it being different. Like perhaps making Ben actually die and be resurrected, rather than healed as such.
However that assumes that a proactive approach would've worked, where both heads of the productions, talked together to make sure it all played out in a consistent way.
 
First reference i saw on that (healing) was an EU book (which I know doesn't count), but it said the healing aspect was a rare specialty as I recall. If you go with that, it's very possible they didn't have that ability.

During the PT, that book had already been written and multiple games had the ability in them as well. So, it was something GL simply didn't use. GL did add speed, for example, in the PT which was first used in games...so there's a precedent for taking stuff from non-canon resources by GL.

Padme doesn't fit because she died 'of a broken heart' well away from Anakin - after he was lava toast. He never got near her after he chocked her and was in full rage mode as well - another reason he didn't heal her, he flat out didn't want to at the time.
Personally for me I think a slightly better redemption arc for Ben. Not that I don't like Leia doing all she can to bring him back. But I think something better would have been, have Ben kill Rey. And that is the point he relinquishes the Dark Side, and then gives his life to resurrect Rey.

So we go from the argument she's a Mary Sue (or not) or overpowered to why not ressurect her and make her akin to a religious icon???

I think Carries death threw a big wrench in things as i'd wager her trying to redeem Ben was a large aspect of the plan which couldn't happen.

And, again, i see no reason why every jedi has to be adept or even capable of executing every force power. I realize the games are just games, but in those you got so many points to allocate to powers, you didn't get to have all of them. You had to pick and choose.
 
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So we go from the argument she's a Mary Sue (or not) or overpowered to why not ressurect her and make her akin to a religious icon???

I think Carries death threw a big wrench in things as i'd wager her trying to redeem Ben was a large aspect of the plan which couldn't happen.

And, again, i see no reason why every jedi has to be adept or even capable of executing every force power. I realize the games are just games, but in those you got so many points to allocate to powers, you didn't get to have all of them. You had to pick and choose.

I mean she got ressurected anyways. Just instead of grandpa killing her, it's Kylo.
 
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