Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[Bigdaddy]

But why don't we see him use it? If Palpatine can, why not Vader?

Because right now what I'm getting is. If Rey and Ben can use Force heal, why not Luke or Obi-Wan etc?

Again: story telling logic
You're attempting to provide an analogy that doesn't work.
I never said anything about force healing, according to my canon it doesn't exist.

 

[Joek3rr]

It doesnt sound to far fetched to me, there is the rumor that Abrams was offered Kennedy`s job and refused and added with the fact that Disney lost out on his future services and that Marvel are entering uncertain territory heading in to the future with the main stars no longer involved and Disney cant afford with their amount of spending to lose any ground to DC.




Yes Palpatine uses lightning in ROTJ and in TLJ Yoda uses it in a very similar fashion. Only Palpatine used it in the Lucas movies because it was his signature move, creatively it gave him something to wow over. Again, using the Lucas films in an attempt to explain off Disneys failings doesnt work, ever.

In regards to Johnson, he's proven himself to be a liar and a hypocrite. He lied about deleting 30,000 tweets after the James Gunn situation, they were deleted months before that. And he used his twitter blanket to claim there are too many white dudes making Star Wars and then continues to promote that he is making 3 more movies and then proudly says he wants in on season 2 of The Mandalorian.

Oh so because it was in the OT that's why it gets a pass.......

So let me get this straight. Palpatine uses lightning, but that's not a plot hole, even though Vader in the previous films didn't.

But Rey uses Force heal, but that's a plot hole, because other Jedi from the previous films didn't?

Yeah, that's sure seems like a big whopping double standard to me.

 

[Joek3rr]

Again: story telling logic
You're attempting to provide an apology that doesn't work.
I never said anything about force healing, according to my canon it doesn't exist.

But according to my canon it does. So now what?

 

[Bigdaddy]

But according to my canon it does. So now what?

So I guess you can continue arguing about it with mr Webber, I was just pointing out the flaw in the lightning example you provided.

 

[kalkamel]

Because Disney honors Star Wars canon in pretty much the same way Alex Kurtzman honors Star Trek's canon when making Discovery.

 

[Joek3rr]

So I guess you can continue arguing about it with mr Webber, I was just pointing out the flaw in the lightning example you provided.

But that's what I'm arguing. Story telling logic. As an example, why doesnt Obi-Wan use Force Speed to run though the energy gates and save Qui-Gon? We saw them both use at the beginning of the film. The correct answer is, cause George Lucas the writer and director said he shouldn't. Because that wouldn't allow for the story to happen.

 

[Mr Webber]

Oh so because it was in the OT that's why it gets a pass.......

So let me get this straight. Palpatine uses lightning, but that's not a plot hole, even though Vader in the previous films didn't.

But Rey uses Force heal, but that's a plot hole, because other Jedi from the previous films didn't?

Yeah, that's sure seems like a big whopping double standard to me.

There is zero double standard here. What is it exactly that you dont get about the Lucas using force powers sparingly and wisely with his characters to preserve a sense of wonder about them and having the common sense back then to avoid the ridiculous confusion that is being experienced today? Let me make it simple for you. George did it first and by doing so he set the rules and storytelling boundaries because he had a solid framework moving forward. He didnt need to blow out his own universe to prop up poorly written and shallow characters like guess who? Disney.

 

[Mr Webber]

So I guess you can continue arguing about it with mr Webber, I was just pointing out the flaw in the lightning example you provided.

I`m done. Its pointless. No one is questioning the use of the force in the Lucas films but him. A good proportion are questioning the use of them in the Disney movies though.

 

[Bigdaddy]

But that's what I'm arguing. Story telling logic. As an example, why doesnt Obi-Wan use Force Speed to run though the energy gates and save Qui-Gon? We saw them both use at the beginning of the film. The correct answer is, cause George Lucas the writer and director said he shouldn't. Because that wouldn't allow for the story to happen.

if you're going to try using the prequels to exemplify story logic and continuity...you are truly lost!
I get it bro, you like DSW and that's fine.
It's just a kiddie show, not a lot of critical thinking required.

 

[Joek3rr]

There is zero double standard here. What is it exactly that you dont get about the Lucas using force powers sparingly and wisely with his characters to preserve a sense of wonder about them and having the common sense back then to avoid the ridiculous confusion that is being experienced today? Let me make it simple for you. George did it first and by doing so he set the rules and storytelling boundaries because he had a solid framework moving forward. He didnt need to blow out his own universe to prop up poorly written and shallow characters like guess who? Disney.

So hypothetical. If George had directed TROS and had included Force healing, and the Force ghosts helping Rey, what would your reaction be? (Wasn't the original end ROTJ going to have Obi-Wan ghost and maybe Yoda's help Luke? Someone correct me if I'm mistaken. )

 

[Bigdaddy]

I'm sure if George wanted force ghosts fighting in the OT he would have added it to the SE. Can you imagine the outrage if he had done that!

 

[Ron]

But that's what I'm arguing. Story telling logic. As an example, why doesnt Obi-Wan use Force Speed to run though the energy gates and save Qui-Gon? We saw them both use at the beginning of the film. The correct answer is, cause George Lucas the writer and director said he shouldn't. Because that wouldn't allow for the story to happen.

There's actually a good reason why he didn't use it...

 

[Bigdaddy]

There's actually a good reason why he didn't use it...

Exactly, it's called lazy writing and a lack of continuity.

 

[Jagjaguwar]

There have been serious issues surrounding the use of the Force, when it is used, how it is used, etc since the first movie, and continuing through the last.

If you try thinking too hard about a lot of SW logic, it tends to fall apart. OT, PT, ST. Whatever.

 

[Moviefreak]

We can point out all plot holes we like, but when they decide to have people run on the surface of ships in space, breathing fine, standing up on said ship surface - during a dog fight - with ships rotating... and they do not float away.... I would say they do not care about “accuracy”.

UPDATE: so it was pointed out that the fight is actually in atmosphere and not in outer space (I guess I interpreted that scene wrong)... but it is still ridiculous having them jump on and running on ships like the Falcon. Right after they start running on it, Lando is maneuvering the hell out of it and they didn’t fall off? Right!

 

[Ron]

Exactly, it's called lazy writing and a lack of continuity.

I agree

Seriously though lol...

In the case of the Emperor shooting lightning while Vader and Luke apparently can't...it's alluded to that he's more powerful than either of them so him having that ability while they don't isn't inconsistent.

But the bigger issue is when a newly introduced force power complicates previous events that could have benefited from their use like why Obi-Wan didn't use the force to heal Qui-Gon or Anakin to heal Padme. They both were strong with the force and more trained than Rey and Ben so they should have been able to use it.

But that's what I'm arguing. Story telling logic. As an example, why doesnt Obi-Wan use Force Speed to run though the energy gates and save Qui-Gon? We saw them both use at the beginning of the film. The correct answer is, cause George Lucas the writer and director said he shouldn't. Because that wouldn't allow for the story to happen.

Yeah exactly. Cool force power right? But it ended up creating a huge inconsistency. One in which Obi-Wan could've saved Qui-Gon. That was bad writing on GL's part.

I don't mind the introduction of new force powers but you have to be very careful with the type of powers you introduce. If they make the character overpowered or create a contradiction with past events, it's best to leave those crazy force powers to video games. Otherwise you end up having to do mental gymnastics to justify them. Just like lightspeed ramming

 

[Bigdaddy]

There have been serious issues surrounding the use of the Force, when it is used, how it is used, etc since the first movie, and continuing through the last.

If you try thinking too hard about a lot of SW logic, it tends to fall apart. OT, PT, ST. Whatever.

Certainly there are but the OT is the least egregious, especially when it comes to the force. The bigger a story gets the harder it is to maintain continuity, whether it's Star Wars or not.

 

[kalkamel]

Harrison Ford sums it all up nicely in TFA. He might as well be talking about the entire Disney Trilogy.

 

[Joek3rr]

We can point out all plot holes we like, but when they decide to have people run on the surface of ships in space, breathing fine, standing up on said ship surface - during a dog fight - with ships rotating... and they do not float away.... I would say they do not care about “accuracy”.

Have you seen TROS? Because they aren't in space.........

 

[Joek3rr]

Certainly there are but the OT is the least egregious, especially when it comes to the force. The bigger a story gets the harder it is to maintain continuity, whether it's Star Wars or not.

Ain't that the truth.

Just watching Captain America The First Avenger the other day. Bullets are shown to clearly hit his shield and stop dead. But The Winter Soldier bullets ricochet off his shield.