Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[cboath]

*Killing Palpatine again.

Honestly, bringing him back is just so.....so very dumb. It's never explained, it doesn't make sense, it's just there because that's apparently what you do at the end of the third movie in a Star Wars trilogy, right?! You either show the rise or death of the Emperor! And that's what we'll keep on doing! OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL THE INEVITABLE HEAT-DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE.

It was because they had no plan for a big bad to bring in the masses disillusioned by 8. Had nothing to do with star wars needs it, it was all they could think of to try and suck in those they lost. Which just goes to show you how clueless they were...

 

[Joek3rr]

It was because they had no plan for a big bad to bring in the masses disillusioned by 8. Had nothing to do with star wars needs it, it was all they could think of to try and suck in those they lost. Which just goes to show you how clueless they were...

They had so little plan that John Williams wrote Rey's theme to be similar Palpatine's.....

 

[Joek3rr]

*Killing Palpatine again.

Honestly, bringing him back is just so.....so very dumb. It's never explained, it doesn't make sense, it's just there because that's apparently what you do at the end of the third movie in a Star Wars trilogy, right?! You either show the rise or death of the Emperor! And that's what we'll keep on doing! OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL THE INEVITABLE HEAT-DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE.

I honestly love it. Palpatine is like the devil in this story. Always there. Tempting, perverting, twisting. He's like Sauron, just because he "dies" doesn't mean he's gone.

 

[Paul Andrew]

I'm not opposed to having brought back Palps, but they did it in the most wet fart kind of way. There was no build up, just ;fart noise; here you go, a real villain, happy?
I wasn't consulted, but it could have been done more artfully. But also, it didn't need to be this way. We could've just gone down a road where Ben went full darkside and Snoke was never explained and we didn't need a new/reheated villain for this movie because Driver can act like a mofo.

 

[HeartBlade]

Lol at Rey killing Palpatine. I mean let’s be serious here. Palpatine has “died” the exact same way (frying himself into an explosion). There is nothing Rey has done differently to what Vader did in killing Palpatine the first time so I have no confidence that he is “dead”.

regarding TLJ and mentioned countless times in this thread by many users, a lot of the fans arnt angry that Luke was in exile. What we are angry about is the fact that this isn’t really developed at all and the means of Luke’s exile feel off. Luke can be exiled and dismayed but some feel that the explanation given in TLJ was not good enough based on his previous depiction.

And TLJ wasn’t a bad movie because of themes. It was a bad movie because it cut off the narrative threads For episode IX. Just as you could expand RoS to 2 movies, you could also expand TLJ to 2 movies and end the trilogy there. The ending of TLJ is very final in some ways and with a couple more tweaks, would have made a great finale to the trilogy. However, given that TLJ is supposed to be the second movie, that’s not how it’s supposed to be.

 

[Psab keel]

Let's be real. Palpatine kills himself. Which is why that final showdown is such an idiotic scene whether the Jedi characters are present with Rey or not. Rey did the exact same thing that Mace Windu did in Revenge of the Sith, only this time it managed to make old Sheev stain explode as opposed to warping his visage. Why? Because JJ and Chris Terrio are terrible writers and I needed to be reminded like a brick to the face how aweome Rey is above all other characters. All Shteevy had to do was stop shooting the lightning and it couldn't be deflected back at him. Problem solved.

Bringing the Emperor back was lazy, contrived, and I hated it in the EU for the same reasons. Palpatine's involvement in the ST was an afterthought. A hail Mary play to try and wrap it all up and get some fans back on board after 8. You can rationalize it all the way to next year but we all know that's the real reason he was brought in. Had Snoke lived old Palpy would have stayed dead at the end of Jedi and that death would have had some meaning. His "death" is now rendered meaningless as well as the lives of the Skywalkers, so there's that.

At least Snoke had the potential to be something different.

 

[Joek3rr]

Let's be real. Palpatine kills himself. Which is why that final showdown is such an idiotic scene whether the Jedi characters are present with Rey or not. Rey did the exact same thing that Mace Windu did in Revenge of the Sith, only this time it managed to make old Sheev stain explode as opposed to warping his visage. Why? Because JJ and Chris Terrio are terrible writers and I needed to be reminded like a brick to the face how aweome Rey is above all other characters. All Shteevy had to do was stop shooting the lightning and it couldn't be deflected back at him. Problem solved.

Bringing the Emperor back was lazy, contrived, and I hated it in the EU for the same reasons. Palpatine's involvement in the ST was an afterthought. A hail Mary play to try and wrap it all up and get some fans back on board after 8. You can rationalize it all the way to next year but we all know that's the real reason he was brought in. Had Snoke lived old Palpy would have stayed dead at the end of Jedi and that death would have had some meaning. His "death" is now rendered meaningless as well as the lives of the Skywalkers, so there's that.

At least Snoke had the potential to be something different.

If you think about it, Palpatine probably isn't using his full power on himself. The guy ain't stupid. But with Rey, he's cranking it all the way up. I mean the act still kills her.

 

[Psab keel]

Using two lightsabers kills her? That doesn't make any sense. It's not like both sabers exploded in her hands from power overload.

 

[zsherman]

If you think about it, Palpatine probably isn't using his full power on himself. The guy ain't stupid. But with Rey, he's cranking it all the way up. I mean the act still kills her.

Sooooo he just doesn’t “stop?” Lke he didn’t learn from last time? Stupid film.

 

[sztriki]

They had so little plan that John Williams wrote Rey's theme to be similar Palpatine's.....

You have a very strange ear.
Also, there are tons of Youtube videos using the same argument before TLJ/TROS to explain Rey's lineage.
Sounds exactly like Luke's theme, must be Luke's daughter, here, comparison video! Fits exactly the rhythm and staccatos of the Imperial March, must be Anakin/Vader reborn, here, comparison video! Snoke's theme is the same as the opera theme, must be Darth Plagueis, here, comparison video!
But on the funny side I love that people think that the only person who was let in on this big planned out overarching secret storyline was John Williams.

 

[BTTUK]

It really was pointless bringing Palpatine back, just to do nothing but "explain" things that never needed explaining, whilst providing a really easily defeated bad guy for the sake of it.

Again, I have to point out that i'm a big fan of TFA/TLJ, but TROS for me exacerbated all the issues in them and just went further in highlighting the complete lack of forethought in the entire direction of the ST.

Adding Palpatine could've been done well, but he just wasn't. Around 50 in universe years later, he couldn't learn the lesson that lightning was a pretty poor attack against a saber wielding opponent, whilst simultaneously being the same super smart villain who engineered the clone wars, patiently turned Anakin away from the Jedi, and took over the galaxy to universal applomb.... That's just ridiculous, and they knew it.

 

[Joek3rr]

Sooooo he just doesn’t “stop?” Lke he didn’t learn from last time? Stupid film.

Actually he does. The moment the lightning begins hitting his face. He stops. But Rey is pulling a "Yoda." She continues to directing lighting from the crossed lightsabers.

 

[Joek3rr]

You have a very strange ear.
Also, there are tons of Youtube videos using the same argument before TLJ/TROS to explain Rey's lineage.
Sounds exactly like Luke's theme, must be Luke's daughter, here, comparison video! Fits exactly the rhythm and staccatos of the Imperial March, must be Anakin/Vader reborn, here, comparison video! Snoke's theme is the same as the opera theme, must be Darth Plagueis, here, comparison video!
But on the funny side I love that people think that the only person who was let in on this big planned out overarching secret storyline was John Williams.

There's no similarities between Rey's and Luke's/Main Title. And I can't think of any between Rey's and Vader's/Imperial March.

So Palpatine's theme. Is written in 'A' minor. It's simple. Starts on the root note, goes up to a minor 3rd. Back to the root note, back up to that minor 3rd, comes down to the root note and then drops a step. And that's it. Rey's does the same exact thing. Written in 'A' minor.(btw it's strange to write a heroes theme in a minor key) Starts on the root, goes up to the 3rd etc.... you get the idea.

This is the kind of stuff that John employs all the time to showcase connections between chracters.

Also Kylo's theme acts as extension to the to the second part of Palpatine's theme. So instead of returning to the root note for the last time before dropping a step. It ascends to a "Star Wars-y" open 5th, then descends to the "devil's tone" resolving on a 4th. Kylo's them starts on that 5th, and descends hitting that "devil's tone", going to the root note, back up to that minor 3rd then resolving on a 5th, an octave lower then where it started.

Side note. I love how John tells Kylo's story in his theme. So a 5th is typically associated with heroics. For instance the Main Title/Luke's theme starts on the root note and jumps straight up to that 5th. So with Kylo's theme we are told he is descended from heroes (Han and Leia) and then it falls, going to the Dark Side. But it lands on a 5th. It's has if John forshadows Kylo becoming a hero.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

Lol this is all SO simple.... The entire Disney Star Wars is trash....Garbage/doesnt exist etc... At least George Lucas would never have SH!T all over the original cast , especially Luke Skywalker.

 

[Psab keel]

John Williams creates the music after the film is mostly cut together and the effects shots are being finished so to argue that his interweaving of musical themes is somehow indicative of a master plan on the part of the directors is ridiculous.

And yes, the ST is trash.

 

[sztriki]

There's no similarities between Rey's and Luke's/Main Title.

And I can't think of any between Rey's and Vader's/Imperial March.

Aaaaand the best one:

And before you say, no, I don't think there's any merit in this (haven't even back in 2015), this is all like Nostradamus. Nobody is any wiser with those prophecies regarding the future but once there is an event that matches you can just say "hindsight" and "oh yea totally, he meant Hiroshima in that prophecy that nobody could make any sense of, obviously"...

So Palpatine's theme. Is written in 'A' minor. It's simple. Starts on the root note, goes up to a minor 3rd. Back to the root note, back up to that minor 3rd, comes down to the root note and then drops a step. And that's it. Rey's does the same exact thing.

I'm sorry but that progression of notes with those intervals is super typical of that scale. It's even more evident if you play it on the guitar, typical minor opening patterns. I can quote you 50 riffs now that employ that.

Written in 'A' minor.(btw it's strange to write a heroes theme in a minor key) Starts on the root, goes up to the 3rd etc.... you get the idea.

Force theme is minor. Harry Potter's theme is minor. I doubt that Williams wanted to hint at Harry being a horcrux right off the bat at movie 1.

This is the kind of stuff that John employs all the time to showcase connections between chracters.

Or he uses typical musical phrases and movements because that's his characteristic style. Listen to The Wizard from Black Sabbath and then Snowblind then Heaven and Hell, they all have pretty much the typical minor root ->diminished 3rd startup, heck even Iron Man is pretty much like that, same set of notes with slight variations. Doubt Tony Iommi wanted to make an intertwined Wizard/Scifi/Cocaine/World saga, it's the type of stuff he writes and that's it. Then again you're obviously entitled to believe whatever tickles your fancy. I just don't get why you think John Williams was let in on this huge secret origin of Rey when neither Colin Treworrow nor Rian Johnson knew anything about it.

 

[Joek3rr]

John Williams creates the music after the film is mostly cut together and the effects shots are being finished so to argue that his interweaving of musical themes is somehow indicative of a master plan on the part of the directors is ridiculous.

And yes, the ST is trash.

You don't play a musical instrument do you?

He wrote Palpatine's theme for Return of the Jedi. And Rey's for The Force Awakens. Rey's theme is born out of Palpatine's.

 

[Dontdissthefett]

Well I play several instruments and I can tell you that artists copy themselves all the time, even unknowingly. Plus given the fact he’s had to do 9 Star Wars movies he’s probably running out of “new” ideas and creativity in that musical soundscape. He may also simply have been unknowingly inspired by the previous theme or by happenstance, went to the same minor scale because it gave the same sympathetic tone he was looking for. The similarities in those two pieces point more to a composer who’s out of fresh ideas versus some grand master plan from the beginning, which there just wasn’t.

 

[Psab keel]

Nvm. You're not understanding what I'm saying.

 

[RedheadKevin]

Well I play several instruments and I can tell you that artists copy themselves all the time, even unknowingly.

I saw the Boston Pops do a selection of John Williams's movie themes, including his first one, for Heidi. Even hearing that, I was like "yup...that's a John Williams theme." He definitely has a style, and it can be pretty obvious.
*In NO WAY am I crapping on John Williams. He's a human treasure.