Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

[Darth Fetty]

How do people keep missing the point that even though Luke was tempted to kill Ben\Kylo, he didn't?!?! He changed his mind, but before he had a chance to try and guide Ben\Kylo away from that path, Ben\Kylo overreacted (out of fear, which we know what that leads to) and we got what happened after.

Because it's completely out of character for him to have even considered it to begin with based on the fact his character was anchored in looking for the good in Vader. And throughout the film he continued to argue that Kylo was irredeemable until random Rey argued otherwise. How can Rey and Snoke see he's conflicted, but not freaking Luke? This was dumb.

 

[DarthLee]

Because it's completely out of character for him to have even considered it to begin with based on the fact his character was anchored in looking for the good in Vader. And throughout the film he continued to argue that Kylo was irredeemable until random Rey argued otherwise. How can Rey and Snoke see he's conflicted, but not freaking Luke? This was dumb.

I bring in Yoda.. Just like Yoda and Obiwan convinced him to kill Vadar, I believe Yoda spoke to Luke to kill Kilo and free Kilo from pain and anger he had and will only grow,.

And just like with Vadar, Luke couldnt do it.

Luke had that crazed look.. Like he was told to do something he felt not to do.

 

[HanSolo2187]

I keep going back to Rey Random and why they shifted to her being a "nobody" versus what JJ was setting up in TFA. No way he does the vision with Obi Wan and Yoda calling out to her and making such a mystery out of her lineage for it to be nothing.

I feel Rian is trying to set up a love triangle between Ben - Rey - and Poe (the "introduction" between Poe and Rey at the end - even though they were standing next to each other on the Resistance base at the end of TFA) and move away from Finn and Rey being a thing (with the intro of Rose). If Ben and Rey were brother-sister, you can't do this because Ben would have seen her true parents or he knows her truth (whereas Luke and Leia had no knowledge of each other's true background). With Rey being a nobody, now you open up the door for a relationship between her and Ben. This would still be the case if she were a Kenobi, but the timeline doesn't work for her to be Ben's daughter.

The question then becomes - does JJ go along with this or does he scrap what Rian has done (who scrapped everything that JJ did) and go back to what he originally intended in TFA?

 

[cboath]

Oh you mean that guy who once tried to kill his own father?

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111272991/5359660-luke-v-vader-o.gif

Did he sneak up on vader in the middle of the night, while he was asleep and consider doing it in absolute cold blood? @#$% no.

In ROTJ he only got like than when vader threatened to go after Leia and his friends and once he won, stopped. He didn't consider killing him off after he won.

Anger in a fight doesn't remotely ever correspond to cold blooded murder, or the consideration thereof.

 

[DarthLee]

And to add to my post above.. I believe that, if you watch from Ep1 to Ep6, You will feel that by ROTJ, Yoda and Obiwan had no more doubt that redemption is not an option and not worth the risk. Cant afford to have another martyr. Therefore, Luke has to do it.

 

[astroboy]

I wish that it was Obi Wan's ghost, not yoda's

I know alec Guiness is dead. It's too bad that modern CGI tech isn't good enough to recreate the likeness of an actor, long since passed.............


Also, I know that Luke is all mad at himself for failing Kylo and that's why he no longer follows the mission. He's such a failure that even when they need him, he just wants to be left alone. I can't imagine what it's like to be that much of a failure.


*the ghost of obi wan appears* "I can. And I still stuck with the mission by sitting on a crap hole planet for 17 years so I could watch over you until you were strong enough to become the new hope!"

 

[cayman shen]

Because it's completely out of character for him to have even considered it to begin with based on the fact his character was anchored in looking for the good in Vader.

Wait, so he lives another 30 years after ROTJ and never makes a mistake or does anything somewhat out of character? Man, I hope you don't hold real people to such high stardards! I'd rather a "real" character than a cardboard cutout, frozen in time, personally.

Any of you ever do something "out of character"? Make a mistake you're ashamed of? Have a moment of weakness that you deeply regret? If not, for pity's sake, go live your life!

 

[Hunk a Junk]

Agreed!

And why Lukes qhost looks younger...

But that wasn't Luke's Force ghost. It was some new kind of projection. He was still alive. So there isn't enough evidence to say they're the same thing. If this were true, you're saying Luke turned to the Dark Side at some point before Rey ever got to the island (back in his brown beard days). That's even worse than him having a moment of temptation.

God, this movie screws up everything.... :sick

 

[DarthLee]

But that wasn't Luke's Force ghost. It was some new kind of projection. He was still alive. So there isn't enough evidence to say they're the same thing. If this were true, you're saying Luke turned to the Dark Side at some point before Rey ever got to the island (back in his brown beard days). That's even worse than him having a moment of temptation.

God, this movie screws up everything.... :sick

I would agree other than we really dont know if force ghost are only for the dead.. Kilo sure looked real, talking to Rey.. and that was a projection of Snokes doing.. So maybe this "Ghosting" once learned, is not limited to a heartbeat

 

[Hunk a Junk]

Wait, so he lives another 30 years after ROTJ and never makes a mistake or does anything somewhat out of character? Man, I hope you don't hold real people to such high stardards! I'd rather a "real" character than a cardboard cutout, frozen in time, personally.

Any of you ever do something "out of character"? Make a mistake you're ashamed of? Have a moment of weakness that you deeply regret? If not, for pity's sake, go live your life!

But we're not talking about us, we're talking about a story -- a story where the climax of a character's arc was about him rejecting temptation and rejecting killing a relative in order to achieve victory. Sure, Luke could certainly have some off days afterward, but KILLING A RELATIVE is way too damn specific to the epic hero's journey that defined his life! cheers

 

[Darth Fetty]

Wait, so he lives another 30 years after ROTJ and never makes a mistake or does anything somewhat out of character? Man, I hope you don't hold real people to such high stardards! I'd rather a "real" character than a cardboard cutout, frozen in time, personally.

Any of you ever do something "out of character"? Make a mistake you're ashamed of? Have a moment of weakness that you deeply regret? If not, for pity's sake, go live your life!

No, not free from mistakes, but it's hard to believe people so easily abandon such major aspects of the personalities and mindsets that originally led them to risk their lives to pursue it. Luke risked his life to pursue his optimism that there is good in Vader. Giving up so quickly on Kylo on running away to an island when Rey and Snoke see he is conflicted is dumb writing.

 

[Kylash]

Dont forget, Luke didnt go into Kylo's hut with the intent to kill him. He went there to look into his thoughts because he was troubled by what he was sensing in him...AND ONLY ONCE HE DID, and BASED ON WHAT HE SAW, did he have an INSTANT of instinct to kill him.

Also remember that at THAT POINT, it was probably the first time Luke had felt or even sensed the dark side SINCE Vader... a little PTSD is expected.

 

[Hunk a Junk]

I would agree other than we really dont know if force ghost are only for the dead.. Kilo sure looked real, talking to Rey.. and that was a projection of Snokes doing.. So maybe this "Ghosting" once learned, is not limited to a heartbeat

So far, I'm going on what we know, what the movies tell us.

 

[ghostryder]

Y'know, between Anakin and all his murderin', Luke and the death star, and Kylo, the Skywalker bloodline sure has killed a lot of folks...

 

[astroboy]

Wait, so he lives another 30 years after ROTJ and never makes a mistake or does anything somewhat out of character? Man, I hope you don't hold real people to such high stardards! I'd rather a "real" character than a cardboard cutout, frozen in time, personally.

Any of you ever do something "out of character"? Make a mistake you're ashamed of? Have a moment of weakness that you deeply regret? If not, for pity's sake, go live your life!

As I mentioned above, Obi wan did the same thing. He trained Anakin who was eventually turned and killed all the jedi. Samer thing, right? Except that Obi Wan didn't give up. He just needed to take a breather, hide out and then return.

 

[Hunk a Junk]

Dont forget, Luke didnt go into Kylo's hut with the intent to kill him. He went there to look into his thoughts because he was troubled by what he was sensing in him...AND ONLY ONCE HE DID, and BASED ON WHAT HE SAW, did he have an INSTANT of instinct to kill him.

Once, even an instant, doesn't change the fact that it's the exact opposite of his victory in ROTJ. It still negates and invalidates what his character achieved. "Yippee! I resisted temptation! I won! Oh wait... I'm tempted again. JUST FOR A MOMENT!!!" :lol

 

[astroboy]

You know the other thing I can't figure out? When Leia and Han were talking, she was like, "we didn't fail our son, Snoke seduced him to the dark side"

But how did he do that exactly? Was he a counselor at Luke's camp for young jedi? Did they know him?

Or was he just randomly putting dark thoughts in his head from across the galaxy?

 

[Kylash]

Once, even an instant, doesn't change the fact that it's the exact opposite of his victory in ROTJ. It still negates and invalidates what his character achieved. "Yippee! I resisted temptation! I won! Oh wait... I'm tempted again. JUST FOR A MOMENT!!!" :lol

....nearly 20 years later.

 

[cboath]

I am almost at peak confusion. Now we are saying Johnson is "disrespecting" a lightsaber?

Oh well. I'm glad we have a movie and directors moving the franchise forward and don't have to worry about somehow having Han, Leia and Luke as the main heroes of the next 20 years of Star Wars movies.

You're missing the point.

No one expected the originals to be the saviors again. Yes, you have to move forward. You do not have to make the originals lives post ROTJ crap in order to achieve it.

Granted 4-6 came before 1-3, but the 2 characters to make it from 3 to 4-6 (outside of the droids) were Obi Wan and Yoda. They didn't live stellar lives in between, but they lived their lives positively and essentially on their own terms. They didn't revert in the arcs, if anything they grew more determined. Their lives were not total crap in the interim - failing at all the big moments.

Meanwhile, between 6 and 7 - that's apparently what happened, everyone's life went to @#$% on screen. Not many read the books, most have only what's on-screen.

 

[cayman shen]

Once, even an instant, doesn't change the fact that it's the exact opposite of his victory in ROTJ. It still negates and invalidates what his character achieved. "Yippee! I resisted temptation! I won! Oh wait... I'm tempted again. JUST FOR A MOMENT!!!" :lol

But he didn't succumb to the temptation. It was a tragic accident that Kylo woke at exactly that moment.

I understand where people are coming from...I just think you're asking too much of even a great and noble human.