Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

[karmajay]

What else could they do in 9?

We already see that people are being inspired by Luke's sacrifice. Time jump a few years and that spark has created a large resistance that has been able to hold the FO at a stand still. Poe is more of a leader now with some holo calls with Leia (since they can;t use cgi maybe use old footage for this). Poe is running mission with Finn and Rose and others. Rey has been reading to texts, searching around and learning more about the force. At some point in the movie ghost Luke has a talk with her that she has to face Kylo Ren to resolve her path to a Jedi and to beat the FO. Ultimate battle between Kylo/Rey while Jakku like battle between FO/Resistance happens in back ground.

And that is just from an un-creative person such as myself!

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Wait, what??? When and where does Luke kill people after ROTJ? Is there an episode 6.5 I missed? :lol

There is other media besides the movies.


A new canon example, In the new BF2 campaign he kills a bunch of stormtroopers when hunting for jedi relics. Of course he asked them to put down their weps and not fight which they refused to do but had to kill then to defend himself.

 

[Hunk a Junk]

This is probably off topic but Jedi are banned from having children the same reason they are banned all attachments. It complicates people's feelings and leads to fear and stuff for those people. Yoda says it himself in Ep1. Has nothing to do with bloodlines being too powerful.

It is true the never directly address it in the movies, but Obi-Wan does say that the Emperor feared that Anakin's children would be a threat to him simply because they are Anakin's children. The implication is that their biology alone is enough of a problem that he wanted them destroyed. Conversely, the Jedi were equally hopeful that Anakin's children might be an asset someday -- so they hid them. Obi-Wan wasn't sitting in the Tattooine desert for 20 years because Luke was devoid of Force potential. Exactly the opposite. He was waiting for the right moment to convince Luke to fulfill his destiny, become a Jedi, and destroy the Sith. In Rebels, Obi-Wan says he believes (mistakenly) that Luke is really the Chosen One. So there's more evidence for bloodlines than not.

 

[the Pawn]

Okay, this is going to sound harsh, but imagine we're sitting in a bar having a cold one with a smile on my face as I lay this on my Star Wars brethren. :cheers

Just so we're clear, in Return of the Jedi (the climax of the OT's story arc), Luke was presented with a conflict: his greatest enemy -- the guy threatening the entire galaxy -- the guy he needed to defeat (i.e. KILL) in order to save the galaxy -- was also his father. He was told by both Obi-Wan AND Yoda that he needed to confront and defeat Vader because "the good man" was "lost" (i.e. already dead). So Luke had to kill his dad. THAT's the conflict. THAT's the setup for the trilogy's climax. What makes Luke a hero is that when confronted with a need to commit patricide to save the galaxy, Luke instead defied his masters and came up with a different option: turn his father back from the dark side -- something Obi-Wan and Yoda told him is impossible. Luke tries it anyway. He turns himself in to the Emperor, he's willing to put his LIFE on the line -- to even put the entire galaxy at risk -- in the hopes that he could retrieve this tiny glimmer of goodness still clinging to life inside Vader. Luke did that. He THREW AWAY his lightsaber. He rejected violence. He told the emperor he'd rather die than kill his father. He WON that victory by NOT giving into murder. And it WORKED! He saved his dad and saved the galaxy. Huzzah! Luke learned that lesson 35 years ago....

But NOPE! Rian "I made Looper" so I'm a ****ing filmmaking genius" Johnson decides he needs a cheap plot device to give the audience a quick thrill so he throws out the ENTIRE POINT OF RETURN OF THE JEDI. Nope! Luke hasn't learned the lesson that murder isn't the way to solve a problem. He just somehow forgets that love and compassion are the ways of the Jedi. He just blanked on the whole "my relative is evil but it's up to me to save them and bring them back" idea. Even though it WORKED before. It's like Johnson never even saw Return of the Jedi. If Luke is willing to kill his own nephew for being evil -- even for a MICROSECOND -- it makes the ending of ROTJ completely pointless. He learned NOTHING! That's why people are losing their minds about this.

So, I'm sorry, it's not powerful. (again, beer talk :cheers) It's complete ignorance on Johnson's part of the climax of the OT and BAD BAD BAD HORRIBLY ****TY SOPHOMORIC WRITING! It's perhaps the clearest evidence that the people running Not-Lucasfilm either don't know what they're doing or don't care. For my money, this is a WAAAAAAAYYY more horrendous failure than "Han shot first", Jar Jar, or anything else fans have been complaining about for years. This ruins the ending of the OT. Luke's victory? Not a victory. If he can try to kill his nephew after all that, he's learned nothing and the series has no point.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced TLJ is a disaster. A flippin' disaster.

Agreed. I have been saying this since my first viewing of the film that this movie fails because of the script and story. I truly believe that had Luke’s story been strong and compelling and had he died a hero’s death with an awesome lightsaber fight, then the 50% of the fans who hate the film would not have hated it so much despite the other WTF moments and major plot holes and plot devices.

Now that I have viewed the film again, I can clearly say that TLJ is the worst of the Star Wars films for me INCLUDING the Prequels and those filed failed on all levels included story, direction, dialogue, acting and dated CGI effects. THAT REALLY SAYS A LOT at how bad this film sits when the acting is great, etc... The way Luke was portrayed overshadows everything and the film is a complete waste of time.

I have no desire to watch TLJ ever again even when its being played for free on TV.

It will interesting to see how this film holds up at the box office over the next few weeks.




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[Toadmeister]

God it was possibly the worst film I've seen in years.

Uh, did you see Justice League?

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[mikid]

Should Star Wars 8 be remade? You decide

There's news on Yahoo of Fans wanting Star Wars 8 to be remade due to the way Ryan Johnson protrayed Luke Skywalker as a bumbling, wimpy idiot running from his destiny. What do you think. I liked the movie in general but do agree with the points made, would have wanted Luke to do more heroic acts and not cry about returning to help.

 

[Hunk a Junk]

As an example, In the new BF2 campaign that is canon, he kills a bunch of stormtroopers when hunting for jedi relics. Of course he asked them to put down their weps and not fight which they refused to do but had to kill then to defend himself.

I don't play BF, but if that's considered canon I might consider that another fail on Not-Lucasfilm's part. We definitely see Jedi in the PT fighting and killing clones and others, but I'd also accept that this is part of the Jedi's downfall. Ideally, the Jedi are trained to look for peaceful solutions and use force only to prevent bigger acts of violence. Luke, of course, was never a Jedi during this era. The fact still remains that we're talking about Luke being tempted to kill his unarmed sleeping nephew, not some soldier firing at him during combat.

 

[DarthLee]

Hold up. Obi-Wan went to Mustafar to kill Vader, true, because Yoda convinced him that Anakin was "gone." That Anakin was spiritually dead and it was impossible to come back. As far as Yoda and Obi-Wan knew, turning to the Dark Side was a one-way street. Once you go black, you never go back. :lol Their mistake -- and it WAS a mistake -- was in failing to realize that Anakin wasn't dead. He wasn't gone completely. Anakin wasn't a regular Jedi. He was the Chosen One. In the case of Dooku (a regular Jedi), yes, turning to the Dark Side was a one way street and destroying him was the only option. That's not true of Anakin/Vader. THAT's what ROTJ is all about. Yoda and Obi-Wan want Luke to KILL Vader because they think the "good man" is gone forever, but Luke senses something they cannot -- that the good man is still there. So THAT's why Luke is a hero. Instead of following their instructions and killing Vader, he takes a different and more risky path to do what no one has done before: turn someone back from the dark side. And the WAY HE DOES THAT is by REJECTING VIOLENCE. He throws away his lightsaber. He tells the Emperor he won't kill. It's the moment both the PT and the OT has been building toward -- and Rian Johnson doesn't fundamentally understand that. To have Luke tempted -- when temptation is what caused Anakin to fall and resisting temptation is why Luke succeeded -- invalidates a six movie arc. It really does. That's why people are pissed.

I think Obiwan and Yoda were absolutely correct...

It didnt matter, by that time, even if Vadar/Anakin came back to the light. They knew the destruction done and the accomplishments Vadar/Anakin had,..from killing younglings, to wiping out a whole sandpeople tribe...and then the Empire.. would fuel future Sith/Darkside users for a very long time. So in a sense, Vadar/Anakin, was not redeemable.. You cant step into darkeness.. make impressions, then step out and say.. "hey im good now"

He died a martyr to everyone who embraces the dark side, and you cant kill that..

 

[JoeG]

Re: Should Star Wars 8 be remade? You decide

I think there are far too many whiny, entitled, so called Star Wars fans. Thats what I think. Of course they shouldn't remake Ep8. Thats just ridiculous. Make sense that people who act this way are such Luke worshipers. They're acting just like he did in ANH.

 

[Galactican]

How did those bombers use gravity to drop their bombs at the beginning?

a character falling down the bomb bay and kicking a ladder to make a controller fall toward her

My theory: The SD had its own gravity field because of its bigger mass. That made Paige and the controller fall towards its center of gravity. If the bomber had been attacking the belly of the SD everyone would have fallen upwards. And yes, we hear laser bolts and fightercraft swooshing through space, huge KA-BOOMs and see all ships flying on the same plane. Hey, it's STAR WARS! May real-world physics be with you - sometimes...

 

[Noeland]

Great space battle. Hey, is BB-8 flying that X-wing? Hey, how is that lady just lying next to an open door in space? What?

I'm just . . . was Leai flying through space? She survived the explosion, and being sucked into space, and then flew back into the ship? I really thought it was a bold way to kill her off at first, and then she was flying . . . I was . . . well . . . that was just a very odd thing.

And Luke, well . . . was that milk? I'm not sure that was milk. That seemed more like . . . something from a male? I dunno. That was odd too.

Chewy kicks a door in. Cool. Luke's reaction was . . . Ok so he doesn't care about Han anymore? Wait, is he a coward now? He's hiding?

Ah, great, so they can psychically facetime each other with the force. Ok. Like teenagers with cellphones. Got it. That's a very modern idea.

Hey . . a casino. This feels like a note. Rose feels like a note. That entire side story wasn't needed. I think Rian is doing his best to weave a lot of bad studio notes into his story.

Why does Luke look like Chuck Norris? Jeez, he REALLY looks like Chuck Norris in this scene. Man, that is a wierd choice.

How is Kylo fooled by this? He JUST witnessed that saber explode. Does anybody think he's really there? I mean, did he stop at the space salon and get a makeover before showing up? There really is no reason for Luke to not have gone and actually faced off with Kylo. Why did they write him to be such a grumpy old coward?

Salt. Ok. Why would you put that in your mouth? What if it just tastes like salt, but you just injested something that is posion to humans?

AH, the big payoff of all the other films is that moving rocks IS important. How clever. Or, you know, not clever.

So . . . NOT the last jedi.

Man, that was an odd movie.

 

[DarthLee]

Re: Should Star Wars 8 be remade? You decide

The we would have a remake of a remake of a remake?

My head hurts,

 

[DarthLee]

And dont forget all the witty humor... I laughed so hard, my eyes were crying.,,,,,,,,

No, not really:unsure

 

[ghostryder]

Okay, more beer talk. :cheers This bugs me and fans get it wrong all the time. The idea that in 1977 there was a "more egalitarian view of the Force, that everyone could access it but only the most serious could master it" is only true if you didn't watch the original movies. Right from the beginning, when Ben tells Luke the truth about Luke's father being a Jedi and not some navigator on a freighter, it was implied that Luke had the potential to be a Jedi because of his father. Because of lineage. Because of a bloodline. Ability and exceptional power passed from father to son. A genetic factor. That idea was only underscored in bold with yellow highlighter and gold stars in ROTJ when Ben told Luke that the "emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring they would be a threat to him." Luke tells Leia, "The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it, I have it, and... my sister has it." There has been a biological factor to Force ability since the very first movie.

Does there though? Let's not forget, not only does the guy telling Luke this - Ben - have no super-noble bloodline or super midicholorian count that we know of, but he's also the guy who whooped Luke's dad's ass In the upcoming Obi-Wan movie we could come to discover Ben is just another stable boy type...

 

[Hunk a Junk]

I think Obiwan and Yoda were absolutely correct...

It didnt matter, by that time, even if Vadar/Anakin came back to the light. They knew the destruction done and the accomplishments Vadar/Anakin had,..from killing younglings, to wiping out a whole sandpeople tribe...and then the Empire.. would fuel future Sith/Darkside users for a very long time. So in a sense, Vadar/Anakin, was not redeemable.. You cant step into darkeness.. make impressions, then step out and say.. "hey im good now"

AH-HA! I'm so glad you brought that up, sir! I agree! And I think Lucas agreed. And he's the evidence for it -- and it's something fans ALSO hate because they don't understand it. Yes, Vader's acts were horrendous and irredeemable. Vader deserved to die. And he did, for a certain point of view. Remember, Yoda told Obi-Wan that Anakin was "gone." Yoda also told Luke in TESB that turning to the Dark Side "destroyed" Anakin and that it was "forever." THAT's what turning to the Dark Side is. In normal humans (and normal Jedi) we're a mix of good and evil, and we must constantly strive to repress and control our darker impulses. Jedi do this through training -- which is necessary because their power is so extreme that failing to control it leads to trouble. But turning to the Dark Side wipes out the good forever (according to the dialogue). As far as Yoda and Obi-Wan are concerned, Vader is literally (in a supernatural Star Wars spiritual sense) a different person from Anakin. THAT's what Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" line means. He thinks the good man that was his friend was destroyed and only a monster remains. Luke disagrees because he can sense a tiny spark of Anakin still alive inside Vader. In some ways, inside Vader the good and the evil are separate, with the evil almost completely smothering the good. This is symbolized by Vader's suit. It's a covering hiding the good no one but Luke can see. When Luke rejects the Emperor, it reignites the sense of love buried deep inside and allows Anakin's good side to "return" and destroy his Vader side. Anakin "kills" Vader and then kills the Emperor, fulfilling the prophecy of the Chosen One. Now here's the part fans hate: Anakin's force ghost being Hayden. Fans hate it. But it directly addresses what you brought up. The Anakin we see is how he looked just before he turned to the Dark Side. Essentially, when Anakin turned, he created a new persona from his own hatred and evil. That evil is Vader. The "conflict" we saw inside Vader throughout the OT was his good side and evil side wrestling for dominance. In showing Anakin's good side basically frozen since his turn, it attributes all of Vader's bad deeds to the SIth persona Anakin then destroys. Despite what fans think, it makes complete sense that Anakin's force ghost would look young. It's his good side absent all the evil. Make sense? :cheers

 

[ghostryder]

Its so funny how you have so much adulation for this guy. A lot of stuff I see him post on twitter cast him in such a smug light. And what new ground did he break according to the article? I seriously wonder what the hell JJ is going to do after this. All this that happened, should have been in 9. Luke dying at least. What else can they do? If I was JJ I would be pissed. The more I think about it, I feel insulted by this movie. "F you nerd for caring about things, youre stupid". :facepalm

Ya know, I do kind of wonder what notes JJ must have passed along to Rian. Like, "You have a blank slate, but here's what I was originally thinking..." I don't think we'll ever be treated to what those were exactly, but would be interesting to hear how he envisioned certain things revealed.

 

[Hunk a Junk]

Ya know, I do kind of wonder what notes JJ must have passed along to Rian.

Since when has it been JJ's M.O. to plan things out? facepalm His magic boxes are nothing but magic cop outs.

 

[OldKen]

And that is just from an un-creative person such as myself!

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You are their target audience I guess?

 

[Marv]

yeah they need to go right back and leave it at 6 in my opinion

 

[Raza Crew]

Here’s where my problem lies with the film. I can respect RJ wanting to tell his story, that things are going to happen that we may not initially like (Luke Dying), I get for his story to work he needs that to happen. It’s “how” he achieved it that bothers me. He’s too enthralled with going against fans expectations to prove that it’s “his” story...much in the same way a lazy writer uses a shocker (unreliable narrator, etc). He could have very easily killed off Luke in a fashion that fans would have loved (blaze of glory) and stilled cleared the way for the new hero (Rey)


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[DarthLee]

AH-HA! I'm so glad you brought that up, sir! I agree! And I think Lucas agreed. And he's the evidence for it -- and it's something fans ALSO hate because they don't understand it. Yes, Vader's acts were horrendous and irredeemable. Vader deserved to die. And he did, for a certain point of view. Remember, Yoda told Obi-Wan that Anakin was "gone." Yoda also told Luke in TESB that turning to the Dark Side "destroyed" Anakin and that it was "forever." THAT's what turning to the Dark Side is. In normal humans (and normal Jedi) we're a mix of good and evil, and we must constantly strive to repress and control our darker impulses. Jedi do this through training -- which is necessary because their power is so extreme that failing to control it leads to trouble. But turning to the Dark Side wipes out the good forever (according to the dialogue). As far as Yoda and Obi-Wan are concerned, Vader is literally (in a supernatural Star Wars spiritual sense) a different person from Anakin. THAT's what Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" line means. He thinks the good man that was his friend was destroyed and only a monster remains. Luke disagrees because he can sense a tiny spark of Anakin still alive inside Vader. In some ways, inside Vader the good and the evil are separate, with the evil almost completely smothering the good. This is symbolized by Vader's suit. It's a covering hiding the good no one but Luke can see. When Luke rejects the Emperor, it reignites the sense of love buried deep inside and allows Anakin's good side to "return" and destroy his Vader side. Anakin "kills" Vader and then kills the Emperor, fulfilling the prophecy of the Chosen One. Now here's the part fans hate: Anakin's force ghost being Hayden. Fans hate it. But it directly addresses what you brought up. The Anakin we see is how he looked just before he turned to the Dark Side. Essentially, when Anakin turned, he created a new persona from his own hatred and evil. That evil is Vader. The "conflict" we saw inside Vader throughout the OT was his good side and evil side wrestling for dominance. In showing Anakin's good side basically frozen since his turn, it attributes all of Vader's bad deeds to the SIth persona Anakin then destroys. Despite what fans think, it makes complete sense that Anakin's force ghost would look young. It's his good side absent all the evil. Make sense? :cheers

Agreed!

And why Lukes qhost looks younger...

And now Kilo must face the same fate...his spirit might still have a spark of hope, but his "human" form has certainly done such evil, that death is his only light..