Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

[Solo4114]

I hate commenting on male/female post...but

I think throughout the history of Sith/Jedi, both had to have substantial training to obtain many abilities.

And now our first, "Female force user/hero", can do this in less that a week. Maybe females are born stronger in the force, right off the bat?

I'll just go with that...^^

I dont quite agree but..I can see how some would think... "oh come on man... just cause she is a girl, she has the abilities of a seasoned Jedi in a matter of days?.. Not a Master, by far.. but certainly more advanced than a padawan....from what history has shown us"

I don't think the films really bear out what you describe, though. Luke didn't really have much training, as far as we know.

Luke gets about as much training as Rey, and yet he's a total badass by ROTJ.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[DarthLee]

I don't think the films really bear out what you describe, though. Luke didn't really have much training, as far as we know.

Luke gets about as much training as Rey, and yet he's a total badass by ROTJ.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Exactly.. you tell me.. how many years from the time when Luke discovers the Force in ANH and ROTJ? And he was NOT a total bada$$ in ROTJ!!

He got his butt handed to him by the Emperor, and barely defeated or deflated a cripple old Vadar.. His dad had to step up and save them all. The only time he ever showed half bada$$ism..is with Jabba

He wasnt Force pulling sabers just minutes after learning about the force.

Like I said.. Maybe females are stronger... maybe Leia could have been the real bad *****.

I dont care male or female. I just want good characters... good scripting and a god story.

 

[Bloop]

A small line that I think a lot of people are missing about Rey's parents and what kylo tells her is that he "saw them". He saw them in his vision that Snoke gave him, like the visions Snoke gave Rey. They each recieved visions of the other helping each other overthrow Snoke. So what kylo claims to "know" is what Snoke showed him, so who knows.

I still like the answer though if it is true.

I agree. It's still possible that the reveal of Rey's parents was a lie by either Ren himself or Snoke through Ren.

I also think it's possible Snoke was a puppet master pulling the strings from far away, and that he wasn't actually there. He may have orchestrated Ren killing his physical form as part of some elaborate scheme that will be revealed in episode IX (think about Obi Wan in the original film "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you possibly could imagine").
What people also need to realize is, since the next movie wasn't written yet, it's up to JJ Abrams to decide what he wants to do with the story, how much he wants to keep of Rian Johnson's film. There are a lot of ways he could change what was "revealed" in TLJ. We just have to wait and see how it plays out. That doesn't mean we can't speculate on things or debate the merits of TLJ, but we should all realize that a lot can change from this film to the next.

 

[DarthLee]

I agree. It's still possible that the reveal of Rey's parents was a lie by either Ren himself or Snoke through Ren.

I also think it's possible Snoke was a puppet master pulling the strings from far away, and that he wasn't actually there. He may have orchestrated Ren killing his physical form as part of some elaborate scheme that will be revealed in episode IX (think about Obi Wan in the original film "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you possibly could imagine).
What people also need to realize is, since the next movie wasn't written yet, it's up to JJ Abrams to decide what he wants to do with the story, how much he wants to keep of Rian Johnson's film. There are a lot of ways he could change what was "revealed" in TLJ. We just have to wait and see hkw it plays out. That doesn't mean we can't speculate on things or debate the merits of TLJ, but we should all realize that a lot can change from this film to the next.

I'll add... What if neither Snoke or Luke were there? Luke disappeared off the rock.. but what if he wasnt really there to begin with..

 

[Solo4114]

Exactly.. you tell me.. how many years from the time when Luke discovers the Force in ANH and ROTJ? And he was NOT a total bada$$ in ROTJ!!

He got his butt handed to him by the Emperor, and barely defeated or deflated a cripple old Vadar.. His dad had to step up and save them all.

He wasnt Force pulling sabers just minutes after learning about the force.

Like I said.. Maybe females are stronger... maybe Leia could have been the real bad *****.

I dont care male or female. I just want good characters... good scripting and a god story.

I think you're forgetting a lot about the OT, though.

Luke was, by his own statements, bullseying womprats in his T-16, which is apparently some amazing task. He trains with Ben for a few hours on the Falcon (being generous here), and is able to block blaster bolts blind, and then use the Force to take out the Death Star in a "one in a million" shot. He gets no training at all after that, and is able to pull his sabre from the snowbank in ESB. He gets a couple of days (Maybe? It's not entirely clear, given the way that hyperspace travel moves at the "speed of plot" in these movies) training with Yoda and is able to lift rocks, stand on one hand, have Force visions of the future, and almost lift his ship out of the swamp on Dagobah, then duel Vader and make Force leaps out of the carbon freezing unit to the rafters above, and finally telepathically call to Leia.

He then gets zero training from that point forward, and yet, between ESB and ROTJ is now a total badass warrior on the edge of being a Jedi, who can Force choke guards, call his lightsabre to him after R2 shoots it out to him, flip and launch himself from one sail barge to another, block blaster fire, duel Vader to a win and almost kill him but only after he gains control of himself, and survive the Emperor's lighting attack. Again, all with zero additional training.

My point is that Luke gets very, very little training, and is amazingly capable.

You can go back farther and look at Anakin, who is the only human capable of pod racing and -- at 9 years old -- wins the Boonta Eve Classic. Zero training. Certainly he becomes a lot more powerful after having been trained, but arguably his training (and the strictures of the Jedi Order) were what led him to becoming Darth Vader in the first place.

Basically, latent Force ability can manifest very early on, and requires no training to use, although training may teach you to control your abilities better. I don't see it as having anything to do with male vs. female. Rey is able to do this stuff the same way Luke was able to as a farm boy. Arguably, she's more powerful because she, like Ben, is sort of the "champion" of one side of the Force. (Assuming that description wasn't bunk that Snoke made up.)

I don't see it as pandering or "forcing" things at all, really. Like, basically, I don't bat an eye at Luke being able to do what he does in any of the movies, so why should it be surprising to me that Rey can do what she does? Granted, she does more in the first movie than Luke did, but Luke didn't really need to use his Force powers in the first movie. He didn't duel anyone, and basically only lit his sabre in Obi-Wan's house the first time he swung it around, and on the Falcon while learning about the Force. And then in ESB, he can pull the lightsabre to him. No reason he couldn't have done that before.

I dunno. Part of me thinks that folks are treating some of this stuff like one of the old Jedi Knight video games, and thinking of it in terms of "But your character can't do that until Level 5 at the earliest! How the hell is this possible?!" It was always possible.

Bear in mind that at one point in time (I believe between ANH and ESB), people questioned whether anyone other than a Jedi or Jedi trainee could even use a sabre -- like, including turning it on -- if they didn't have The Force. Until Han cut open a tauntaun to shove Luke inside....

 

[Solo4114]

I agree. It's still possible that the reveal of Rey's parents was a lie by either Ren himself or Snoke through Ren.

I also think it's possible Snoke was a puppet master pulling the strings from far away, and that he wasn't actually there. He may have orchestrated Ren killing his physical form as part of some elaborate scheme that will be revealed in episode IX (think about Obi Wan in the original film "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you possibly could imagine").
What people also need to realize is, since the next movie wasn't written yet, it's up to JJ Abrams to decide what he wants to do with the story, how much he wants to keep of Rian Johnson's film. There are a lot of ways he could change what was "revealed" in TLJ. We just have to wait and see how it plays out. That doesn't mean we can't speculate on things or debate the merits of TLJ, but we should all realize that a lot can change from this film to the next.

One thing worth remembering about JJ Abrams:

He knows how to raise questions. He doesn't really know or care about how to answer them. To him, the question is the most important part of the equation.

So, he knows how to craft an intricately detailed box, with tortoiseshell inlay, gold filigreed hinges, an elaborate locking mechanism that requires seven different keys to open, where each key is hidden inside an elaborately trapped dungeon...but if you ask him what's in the box, his answer is "Not important! The fun is in trying to open the box!"

So, I wouldn't count on him having "actual" answers to these questions. I think it's entirely possible that the answer was always that Rey's parents were nobodies and that Rey herself is a nobody.

 

[clmayfield]

On top of that, there's the much more interesting question of where the story goes from here in terms of the fate of the Jedi. What will Rey's Jedi order look like? What will it mean to be a Jedi the way Rey does it? Will the cycle that has been repeated in the previous two trilogies and into this third one be ended? Will Kylo Ren/Ben be redeemed? Will Rey destroy him? Will he destroy Rey? How will the FO be stopped? Will Poe be able to lead the Resistance now that he has learned from the errors of his past? Will Finn let go of his hate and fight for love instead? Does he have a future with Rose? And what of the children on the casino planet? What of Luke's ominous message of "See ya 'round, kid..."? Will Luke impart a final lesson to Rey? (There was a scene shot that was cut, which leaves that a possibility still.)

Good questions. Given enough time, maybe writers could come up with way to either not answer all of those questions or make them irrelevant. Here is how I would do it:

Rose will die offscreen with Leia. We will find out about it in the screen crawl. Hux will shoot Kylo in the back in the opening scene to become supreme leader. The rest of the film will be Hux pursuing the Millennium Falcon in a star destroyer with waves and waves of tie fighters and Rey just barely shooting all of them before they get in range to use their own lasers. Lots of explosions and Poe backseat driving at one cannon rather than operating the other one at the same time. No explanation as to why.

Hux will go on a side mission to Canto Bight to pick up the broomstick kid as a slave because he thinks that understanding the Force will be key to his victory. Finn will see the star destroyer heading to Canto Bight and "figure out" that is what Hux is doing and he will go to Canto Bight to try to save the kid with Poe. There is a huge blaster duel with lots of explosions and property damage, but Hux will escape with the kid. He will free all of the fathiers that have been rounded up again since the past film to some touching music. He will put Rose's crescent medal around a fathier's neck. It'll be a really great scene.

Rey will finally board Hux's destroyer at the end to meet Hux face to face as the Millennium Falcon is running out of fuel. Cue throwback Star Wars themes. When she finally gets to his throne room, she will activate her lightsaber. Hux will force grab Kylo's saber from a table in the room. Before she has the chance to fight him, the broomstick kid will walk into the throne room and kill Hux with force lightning. Everybody gets a medal at the end. Roll credits.

It might not sound like a great story, but add in the production, CGI, cool new star ships, and a John Williams score and most importantly, fans will be really surprised and it will be unlike any Star Wars movies that ever came before it. Because doing something different is far more important than responding to "fanticipation" or delivering a story with structure.

 

[DarthLee]

I think you're forgetting a lot about the OT, though.

Luke was, by his own statements, bullseying womprats in his T-16, which is apparently some amazing task. He trains with Ben for a few hours on the Falcon (being generous here), and is able to block blaster bolts blind, and then use the Force to take out the Death Star in a "one in a million" shot. He gets no training at all after that, and is able to pull his sabre from the snowbank in ESB. He gets a couple of days (Maybe? It's not entirely clear, given the way that hyperspace travel moves at the "speed of plot" in these movies) training with Yoda and is able to lift rocks, stand on one hand, have Force visions of the future, and almost lift his ship out of the swamp on Dagobah, then duel Vader and make Force leaps out of the carbon freezing unit to the rafters above, and finally telepathically call to Leia.

He then gets zero training from that point forward, and yet, between ESB and ROTJ is now a total badass warrior on the edge of being a Jedi, who can Force choke guards, call his lightsabre to him after R2 shoots it out to him, flip and launch himself from one sail barge to another, block blaster fire, duel Vader to a win and almost kill him but only after he gains control of himself, and survive the Emperor's lighting attack. Again, all with zero additional training.

My point is that Luke gets very, very little training, and is amazingly capable.

You can go back farther and look at Anakin, who is the only human capable of pod racing and -- at 9 years old -- wins the Boonta Eve Classic. Zero training. Certainly he becomes a lot more powerful after having been trained, but arguably his training (and the strictures of the Jedi Order) were what led him to becoming Darth Vader in the first place.

Basically, latent Force ability can manifest very early on, and requires no training to use, although training may teach you to control your abilities better. I don't see it as having anything to do with male vs. female. Rey is able to do this stuff the same way Luke was able to as a farm boy. Arguably, she's more powerful because she, like Ben, is sort of the "champion" of one side of the Force. (Assuming that description wasn't bunk that Snoke made up.)

I don't see it as pandering or "forcing" things at all, really. Like, basically, I don't bat an eye at Luke being able to do what he does in any of the movies, so why should it be surprising to me that Rey can do what she does? Granted, she does more in the first movie than Luke did, but Luke didn't really need to use his Force powers in the first movie. He didn't duel anyone, and basically only lit his sabre in Obi-Wan's house the first time he swung it around, and on the Falcon while learning about the Force. And then in ESB, he can pull the lightsabre to him. No reason he couldn't have done that before.

I dunno. Part of me thinks that folks are treating some of this stuff like one of the old Jedi Knight video games, and thinking of it in terms of "But your character can't do that until Level 5 at the earliest! How the hell is this possible?!" It was always possible.

Bear in mind that at one point in time (I believe between ANH and ESB), people questioned whether anyone other than a Jedi or Jedi trainee could even use a sabre -- like, including turning it on -- if they didn't have The Force. Until Han cut open a tauntaun to shove Luke inside....

Everything you said was...long and true..and I agree with the most part.

But I will stand by the "ability = time"

Even Kylo had training of some sorts...

It was pounded in our heads from day one.. train in the force or just settle for good shooting, good piloting and beating up people with a stick. Anything else has to be learned. Self taught.. or mentored.

How did Rey know she could force pull a lightsaber? If you dont know the ability, how can you use it, without being shown.. or taught.

But then there's Rey, the rules have changed..

I guess we will just have to accept it and move on.

 

[Solo4114]

Because doing something different is far more important than responding to "fanticipation" or delivering a story with structure.

As I said above in this thread (like, maybe a page or two back), I do think that doing something different was and continues to be important.

I think a lot of fans have the idea that the story ought to be "The same, but, you know, not too similar." And nobody can really articulate what that means. I don't think those whims should be catered to. I think storytellers should just...tell their story. They should try to tell it well, of course, but they shouldn't try to consciously appease or irritate the fans. They should write as if the fans don't exist, because trying to anticipate the fans is a guarantee of failure. The fans want this. The fans want that. The bottom line is that the fans don't really know what they want, and they usually are only responding to what came before. Their suggestions for stories that could develop from what has been created already are usually just iterations of what already happened. There's a reason why fan fiction so often feels unoriginal and boring: because fans are too engrossed in their own fandom to think beyond it.

It makes sense, after all. If you love a thing and want more of it, you'll naturally seek to recreate it. But it's like drinking a bottle of wine over a period of days. The first day, it tastes great. The second day it's...ok. By the third or beyond, it's just a pale shadow of its former self, until it's barely recognizable as the wine you had earlier, and is growing less and less palatable regardless. That's the fan experience with fandom of a franchise that doesn't evolve.

So, yeah, I think the films do need to do things differently. They still need to consider what came before and preserve the soul of the work, not just burn it all down, but the soul doesn't mean a reflexive recreation of the past. And while I know a lot of fans -- myself included -- don't want that either...the problem is that we very often cannot articulate what the "right" version of things would be. That's why I'm happy to have many of the preconceived notions shattered by this movie. To me, it still feels like Star Wars, but a Star Wars that's now open to a lot of new possibilities.

Everything you said was...long and true..and I agree with the most part.

But I will stand by the "ability = time"

Even Kylo had training of some sorts...

It was pounded in our heads from day one.. train in the force or just settle for good shooting, good piloting and beating up people with a stick. Anything else has to be learned. Self taught.. or mentored.

How did Rey know she could force pull a lightsaber? If you dont know the ability, how can you use it, without being shown.. or taught.

But then there's Rey, the rules have changed..

I guess we will just have to accept it and move on.

Yeah, I agree -- the rules have changed. But that's kind of the point, I think. Or at least, that's the point in this film. I'm not convinced JJ really was thinking about a lot of this stuff.

 

[Bryancd]

Everything you said was...long and true..and I agree with the most part.

But I will stand by the "ability = time"

Even Kylo had training of some sorts...

It was pounded in our heads from day one.. train in the force or just settle for good shooting, good piloting and beating up people with a stick. Anything else has to be learned. Self taught.. or mentored.

How did Rey know she could force pull a lightsaber? If you dont know the ability, how can you use it, without being shown.. or taught.

But then there's Rey, the rules have changed..

I guess we will just have to accept it and move on.

Yes, the rules have changed insofar as we have never seen the Force manifest itself in anyone the way it has imbued Rey. She doesn’t understand it, she struggles with it as do we as the audience. It doesn’t serve any of us to have such a pedantic view of the Force limited to “teaching”.

 

[DarthLee]

Yeah, I agree -- the rules have changed. But that's kind of the point, I think. Or at least, that's the point in this film. I'm not convinced JJ really was thinking about a lot of this stuff.

Yes, the rules have changed insofar as we have never seen the Force manifest itself in anyone the way it has imbued Rey. She doesn’t understand it, she struggles with it as do we as the audience. It doesn’t serve any of us to have such a pedantic view of the Force limited to “teaching”.

Im going with this the best I can.

I also think alot of "haters" are "hating", not because of the movie at all....BUT because a sour taste in their mouths from the sale..

The sale of a franchise, that was on its own...did its own thing.....conquered the big corporations and fought to become a great icon in alot of peoples eyes...

The story of Star Wars, was 2 things in my eyes..

1) a vision of another place and time that I could enjoy..

2) the dream of a man, who refused to have influences... showed the world that he "himself" could do it..even without the backing of a big financial shadow

And now has "sold out" to the Big Brother thats Disney...

As soon as people found out that Star Wars was not George Lucas any longer...the minds had been already made up about any movie that followed.... They can deny it, but its true.. I was one of them.

I asked myself..and alot of friends..

Did you not like it because it was a bad movie..or because it was now a Disney movie? and you just hate the fact that GL is no longer SW?

 

[Bryancd]

Im going with this the best I can.

I also think alot of "haters" are "hating", not because of the movie at all....BUT because a sour taste in their mouths from the sale..

The sale of a franchise, that was on its own...did its own thing.....conquered the big corporations and fought to become a great icon in alot of peoples eyes...

The story of Star Wars, was 2 things in my eyes..

1) a vision of another place and time that I could enjoy..

2) the dream of a man, who refused to have influences... showed the world that he "himself" could do it..even without the backing of a big financial shadow

And now has "sold out" to the Big Brother thats Disney...

As soon as people found out that Star Wars was not George Lucas any longer...the minds had been already made up about any movie that followed.... They can deny it, but its true.. I was one of them.

I asked myself..and alot of friends..

Did you not like it because it was a bad movie..or because it was now a Disney movie?

The alternative was no more Star Wars. Ever. George was done. I’m enternaly grateful George sold to Disney and there are new films and characters I can enjoy with my son.

 

[clmayfield]

I think a lot of fans have the idea that the story ought to be "The same, but, you know, not too similar." And nobody can really articulate what that means.

I am fine with it not being the same. Or even similar. But there was a previous movie in this trilogy and I think that the guiding principle in writing TLJ was to surprise by going against the grain of everything that TFA set up. I liked TFA. My only complaint about it was how similar it was to ANH. TLJ fixed that one issue and opened up a number of other issues (mostly with the story's structure that I set up a few pages back).

Surprise can be great. But you only get that reaction once. As an example, when I was a teen, I watched "There's Something About Mary." The comedy in most of that movie is based entirely on defying expectations. As a result, it was not near as good at the second viewing or the next. Other great comedies like "The Big Lebowski" or Caddyshack" (to take two wildly different films) get better with each viewing. I have probably seen ANH 70 or 80 times. I only got surprised once... so I guess that what I am saying is that surprise is a weak guiding principle. The story and the characters are what makes it interesting. Luke tossing the light saber over his shoulder works once or twice. I laughed. You don't laugh the third time.

All that said, I liked the movie better on my second viewing. But all of those questions you asked? I just don't care any more. Fooled me once shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me. Maybe that's a good thing?

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

Title-crawl states it as evil Galactic Empire that has a weapon that can destroy a planet.
Fantastic visual representation of the huge, sharp-angled Star Destroyer chasing a small and mostly rounded Rebel ship that clearly has no chance (form language).
Stormtroopers in armor and helmets bursting in and slaughtering people with faces.
Vader's overall presence and breaking a dude's neck with his own bare hands.

That's in the first ten minutes of ANH and mostly told by visuals.This again brings me to the IMO missed choice in TLJ because an organization is only as evil as the people leading it so Rey and Kylo teaming up and trying to build something different from the First Order would have been really interesting.

Sorry if I misunderstood your question...

No, that´s exactly what I was after as an answer. And in addition to those BOLD visual statements about the Empire being evil, we get to see a PLANET and its inhabitants policed by the Empire´s stormtroopers! There is short but necessary interaction!

We do not get to see ZIP of HOW the FO really handles their systems. They are just there. They are an ISOLATED ELEMENT, as far as I am concerned. They have NO interaction with other races or beings except the Resistance.

That brings me to the theory, what if the FO is just an imagination, only seen by Leia and the Resistance?! Maybe Leia herself made all of it up just to have a purpose to keep going?!

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think the films really bear out what you describe, though. Luke didn't really have much training, as far as we know.
...

There. He said it. And I think he is the first one to actually, subconsciously notice it. The connection.

"BEAR"!

Like in "Polar bear". As seen in "Lost". Case. Closed. Abandon all hope for the rest of the franchise.

 

[DarthLee]

I just watched the trailers again...

I really like the trailers!

 

[Solo4114]

No, that´s exactly what I was after as an answer. And in addition to those BOLD visual statements about the Empire being evil, we get to see a PLANET and its inhabitants policed by the Empire´s stormtroopers! There is short but necessary interaction!

We do not get to see ZIP of HOW the FO really handles their systems. They are just there. They are an ISOLATED ELEMENT, as far as I am concerned. They have NO interaction with other races or beings except the Resistance.

That brings me to the theory, what if the FO is just an imagination, only seen by Leia and the Resistance?! Maybe Leia herself made all of it up just to have a purpose to keep going?!

I mean, they blew up the entire Hosnian system...and we saw how they attacked Maz's castle and the outpost on Jakku where Lor San Tekka was. (That was Jakku, right?) I think it's stated somewhere that they kidnap children and force them to become Stormtroopers, too, or at least it's strongly implied in the films. (Might've been overtly said in the new Battlefront 2 game...?)

To be fair, we also don't really see much of how the Empire itself "rules" outside of Stormtroopers patrolling Mos Eisley. Other than that, we get the Death Star blowing up Alderaan, and that's all we see of the Empire's governance. The rest of the info we have is from all the EU and new canon information, a lot of it having been provided by West End Games' Star Wars RPG (e.g., references to the Ghorman Massacre, where Moff Tarkin lands a ship on protesters...and is promoted to Grand Moff). Some of this stuff I've only recently figured out by reading through WEG sourcebooks that I nabbed off of ebay, but what it made me realize was just how much background information I'd absorbed from sources other than the films, and how that had shaped my perception of the universe as a whole. When it's literally just the OT and the PT, you don't get a whole lot of info about the background of the galaxy, and (for example) a guy like Snoke is explained exactly as much as the Emperor.


Side note: the bear pun made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

 

[DarthLee]

To be fair, we also don't really see much of how the Empire itself "rules" outside of Stormtroopers patrolling Mos Eisley. Other than that, we get the Death Star blowing up Alderaan, and that's all we see of the Empire's governance. The rest of the info we have is from all the EU and new canon information, a lot of it having been provided by West End Games' Star Wars RPG (e.g., references to the Ghorman Massacre, where Moff Tarkin lands a ship on protesters...and is promoted to Grand Moff). Some of this stuff I've only recently figured out by reading through WEG sourcebooks that I nabbed off of ebay, but what it made me realize was just how much background information I'd absorbed from sources other than the films, and how that had shaped my perception of the universe as a whole. When it's literally just the OT and the PT, you don't get a whole lot of info about the background of the galaxy, and (for example) a guy like Snoke is explained exactly as much as the Emperor.


Side note: the bear pun made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

"Bear" in mind, We do get an explanation at the beginning of ANH, when we learn "The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station. "

That kind of explains the Empire to me...

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

I mean, they blew up the entire Hosnian system...and we saw how they attacked Maz's castle and the outpost on Jakku where Lor San Tekka was. (That was Jakku, right?) I think it's stated somewhere that they kidnap children and force them to become Stormtroopers, too, or at least it's strongly implied in the films. (Might've been overtly said in the new Battlefront 2 game...?)
...

That IS true. But it feels kind of differently. Maybe it was too much, for my tastes. The "ruling" over Tatooine IMO felt like it had been established over a long period of time, whereas the heavy strokes that the FO is painted with maybe too... heavy? Or maybe it started to feel somewhat strange with the name itself, the "First Order"?!

...
Side note: the bear pun made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

You´re welcome

 

[JD]

Similarly, Rey got her ass handed to her by Snoke in his throne room. Helpless in a Force hold, slapped in the head by her own lightsaber. She's was able to hold her own in a fight, just as she was prior to all this - she was able to take down Kylo Ren on Starkiller after he took blast from a bowcaster and after he faced off with Finn - even Finn managed to get a hit or two in (...and the conflict inside him after killing his father).

Rey's the same thing Luke was.

 

[DarthLee]

Rey's the same thing Luke was.

NOOOOOO!!!

My final answer