I'm sorry, I'm confused. What is it that you think is acceptable behavior, and I do not? Or, if I've got that backwards, what is it that you don't think is acceptable behavior, and I think it is acceptable?
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
- Start date
I'm sorry, I'm confused. What is it that you think is acceptable behavior, and I do not? Or, if I've got that backwards, what is it that you don't think is acceptable behavior, and I think it is acceptable?
Bigdaddy
Master Member
I've been pretty clear that I don't find online harassment acceptable, regardless of celebrity status. I don't find racism acceptable nor something that people should be required to laugh off. I don't find body shaming acceptable either, these are all things Kelly Tran was subjected to.
If you're going to quote my posts please quote them in their entirety for sake of context. I keep them pretty short.
When I say haters are gonna hate, "accept it", that does not translate to me saying I find their hatred acceptable, as in nothing should be done about it. It just means, there's a far better way to combat it--which I've outlined, and I'm glad you approve of--than to waste time and energy pointing fingers and playing the victim.
Especially when we're talking about privileged people like celebrities, pro athletes, and politicians. If you're gonna put yourself in the limelight, and reap all its benefits, then you had better grow some thicker skin, because fame comes with a price...and a steep one, at that. Deal with it, or get out of the limelight.
The Wook
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Well she got off social media, I don't see why she should give up her career. I disagree that being a celebrity makes a person fair game for online personal abuse.
I don't think she should give up her career, either. And never once did I say she should. I say she should laugh off and ignore the haters, and push onward with her career.
Fair??
Whoever told you life was fair, lied.
The Wook
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Okay, how about I don't find celebrities acceptable targets for personal abuse.
Okay, how about I don't find celebrities acceptable targets for personal abuse.
Fine, but so what? What the hell can you, or anybody, do about it? Nada. Zip! Zilch!!
So I say to Rose, don't let them intimidate you, ignore them and spend your energy on your own creative pursuits.
But see, I suspect she likes playing the victim--as so many liberals do. I suspect she thinks she will further her career by generating sympathy from like-minded progs in Hollyweird, by reacting dramatically the way she has, in quitting all SM. "Oh poor me, lil' pudgy asian girl. I had to quit all SM because of racist and sexist white men! CAST ME!". It certainly has gotten her--an actress of dubious talent and looks, as far as I can tell--a ton of attention. Hell, it's what you and I have been talking about for the last, **** me, hour plus.
The Wook
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Bigdaddy
Master Member
LOL hater's gonna hate indeed!
Oh, I don't hate her. Just completely unimpressed. I would never say anything cruel, or even critical, to her on her social media. She means nothing to me. And if someone did introduce me to her in person, I would be a perfect gentleman, naturally.
The Wook
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Yeah, I get the impression your much more comfortable voicing your suspicions about her character and motivations anonymously online.
Solo4114
Master Member
When you try that hard to create a misleading argument, I will take that as a win.
You can call it what you like. That's your business. But just to recap here:
1. You suggested she "baited" her fans. You provided nothing to back up this assertion and, thus far, I've been unable to find any evidence to support it.
2. You note that she "ate up the attention when it benefited her" until the hype backfired on her.
3. You offered all of the above in response to my post where I said "I haven't seen anyone yet offer any reason why Kelly Marie Tran herself deserves any of this kind of garbage behavior." (emphasis added). You cut off the last portion of my quote. Maybe that was intentional, or maybe it was by accident. However, it's the latter half of the quote that is relevant to the discussion, which, you'll recall, has been about trolls attacking Tran, and especially their use of racist and sexist attacks in the process.
Read that again.
"I haven't seen anyone yet offer any reason why Kelly Marie Tran herself deserves any of this kind of garbage behavior."
And your response is "She baited fans and took advantage of the hype," the implication being "...therefore, she deserves this kind of behavior." When I described that line of thought as no different from "She was asking for it," you didn't really have a response, except to declare victory.
So, two things.
1. Whether she was baiting fans might be relevant if the goal was to suggest that she got what she deserved, that she provoked people into a reasonable and predictable response. Except, she didn't bait fans (at least not that anyone's shown so far), and merely being in the public eye doesn't mean anyone deserves to be the target of racism, sexism, or trolling and nastiness.
2. Sure, shrugging it off, making fun of the trolls, etc. is one way to approach it. But not everyone's equipped for that. Not everyone is in a place emotionally where they're ready to do battle with cretins and a**holes, especially to the degree that happens on social media these days. None of that means that they deserve the behavior they receive, though. Nor does any of it mean that the behavior is remotely acceptable.
I don't disagree that stepping into the glare of the spotlight exposes you to a range of criticism. And I think that leveling some criticism at people is legitimate. If, for example, a movie critic complained about Tran's emotional range being limited, that'd be at least fair game. It's the critic's job, for one thing, and it's the critic criticizing Tran's performance of her job. To my way of thinking, that's far more reasonable to expect when stepping into the public eye, and I'd have a lot less sympathy for someone who said they just couldn't handle that a critic critiqued them at their job in such circumstances.
But the trolling, especially racist and sexist trolling, is beyond the pale, even if it's sadly predictable in this day and age. I think Tran made the right choice by simply deleting her account. From what I read, she's a pretty sensitive person (in her own words) and was actually afraid of exactly the kind of treatment she received online, which was why she hadn't signed up previously. If it turns out that she couldn't handle the level of bull**** directed at her, then yeah, the right move was to simply close up shop and move on.
But none of that remotely excuses the bad behavior she received, and she didn't deserve any of it.
JPH
Sr Member
Solo4114 and BigDaddy,
The real question is "why are you two so wholly supportive of Tran portraying/ representing asian women so badly? "
Rose was a terrible stereotype of an awkward, lost soul, willing to bully if given the chance, yet you two are continuously trolling to defend this awful steteotype. It is shameful you claim to defend *her* but you are defending what she portrayed and re-inforced, an ugly stereotype. A terrible stereotype.
Rose was an insult to women, and to asians. You two are so proud of that? Finn was ready to abandon her!! Would she be more satisfying to you goofballs if he beat her? Got her pregnant, THEN LEFT? Because that is what you are eager to support.
The real question is "why do you feel such a miserable portrayal of asian women is acceptable?" Why are you insisting on defending such trash?
Women are wonderful, asian women, doubly so. Check YOUR standards, before you judge evrryone elses.
So troll all you want, we know better.
Dont accuse *others* of *your* prejudice, you wiill eventually get figured out.
The real question is "why are you two so wholly supportive of Tran portraying/ representing asian women so badly? "
Rose was a terrible stereotype of an awkward, lost soul, willing to bully if given the chance, yet you two are continuously trolling to defend this awful steteotype. It is shameful you claim to defend *her* but you are defending what she portrayed and re-inforced, an ugly stereotype. A terrible stereotype.
Rose was an insult to women, and to asians. You two are so proud of that? Finn was ready to abandon her!! Would she be more satisfying to you goofballs if he beat her? Got her pregnant, THEN LEFT? Because that is what you are eager to support.
The real question is "why do you feel such a miserable portrayal of asian women is acceptable?" Why are you insisting on defending such trash?
Women are wonderful, asian women, doubly so. Check YOUR standards, before you judge evrryone elses.
So troll all you want, we know better.
Dont accuse *others* of *your* prejudice, you wiill eventually get figured out.
Oh, no, I would totally say it to her face--if she asked me for my honest opinion of the situation. I would be polite, because I have no personal animus towards her--but I would not mince words.
Stop misquoting me. :lol I never said it's "okay" for people to go after celebs, pro athletes, and politicians--as if I'm handing out some sort of morality permission slip to people who want to attack famous people online. All I'm saying is that it comes with the territory of being famous, and there ain't nothin' you can do about it. So you may as well make their trolling joyless for them, by laughing it off, and pushing forward in your career. Because they will stop, and seek out more vulnerable targets.
I never said she deserved such treatment. I said it comes with the territory, when you become famous. Deal with it, or step out of the limelight.
Well, if she's not equipped to laugh off her online trolls, then she needs to grow some thicker skin, or get out of the limelight. Because for the umpteenth time, she is a PUBLIC figure, and may be exposed to vitriol online. And what's more, there's NOTHING that can be done to change it--except to laugh it off and ignore them.
And *****, Mary and Joseph, stop underlining the word, "deserves". I NEVER said she deserves such treatment from online trolls.
The Wook
I never defended her character or role, just her as a person.
You made it clear you aren't interested in actual discourse so I'll leave it at that.
I'll take that as a win!
Who you talkin' to? You really should quote, mention, or address people when replying to them.
JPH
Sr Member
I never defended her character or role, just her as a person.
You made it clear you aren't interested in actual discourse so I'll leave it at that.
I'll take that as a win!
Being that her criticism stems from her role, you actually are.
Star Wars fans weren't dissatisfied with Tran until she made asian women look bad.
You weren't defending her until she lowered the bar on expected behavior of asian women.
I can see why you find the true discussion point indefensible.
You should hang out with some asian women someday, you just might find they are better than that.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Sorry dude I thought I had hit the quote button, big fingers and small phone.
Being that her criticism stems from her role, you actually are.
Star Wars fans weren't dissatisfied with Tran until she made asian women look bad.
You weren't defending her until she lowered the bar on expected behavior of asian women.
I can see why you find the true discussion point indefensible.
You should hang out with some asian women someday, you just might find they are better than that.
Don't be rediculous, I simply pointed out I have no tolerance for trolls harassing her online. I know several Asian women, I never thought to compare them to one another or actresses in an attempt to figure out who the better Asian is.
JPH
Sr Member
Sorry dude I thought I had hit the quote button, big fingers and small phone.
Don't be rediculous, I simply pointed out I have no tolerance for trolls harassing her online. I know several Asian women, I never thought to compare them to one another or actresses in an attempt to figure out who the better Asian is.
Stop dodging. You are supporting a bad stereotype, The Wook has also called you n Solo4114 out for clearly misrepresenting people's arguments, so, as I said in a prior post, stop accusing others of your issues, hangups and prejudices.
Rose ** EDIT** IS a disgusting stereotype, stop defending it. You broight this on yourself.
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JPH
Sr Member
Rose doesn't play anyone, Kelly Tran did.
LoL brought this on myself? Brought what the ire of a fanboy screaming dissatisfaction into the void? LoL to quote Mark Hamill "getalifenerd"!
Congratulations after 5 years here I'm finally using the ignore feature.
That's rich! The guy with over 2500 post on a prop forum, trolling a Star Wars thread to promote bad stereotypes tells the person with a typo and less than 700 post to get a life.
I guess he needed an out.
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