Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

:lol

I remember an interview with GL during the filming of ROTJ where he talked about building the massive sail barge just for it to be on screen for about 2mins. He said it was important to put all that effort into it but then also realize that it's not the subject your shooting. You can too easily get caught up in how cool the thing you just built is and it will be at the expense of your film.

I feel the same way about much of the "glory shots" in the PT. Including most (but not all) of Coruscant.

You know, there really wasn't all that much that could be called "glory shots" of Coruscant, the sorts of empty, panning vistas that, as said elsewhere, scream "ooh, look at me." The very opening sequence in TPM was admittedly full-on; however, what I can recall of the rest was action and/or dramatic sequences taking place within the city or with the city simply as a backdrop, no different really than what we saw of Cloud City in Empire or the Tatooine desert in SW or Jedi.

Eggzactly.

Lucas fell prey to the very thing he warned against: "A special effect without a good story is a really boring thing." And I think he just got so wrapped up with how COOL all his effects were, that it ended up undermining a lot of his story. Actually, undermining isn't really the right word. Distracting. I think he got distracted by the effects and visuals, and as a result figured "The story's good" when it really could've been a LOT better. Although part of me also thinks that, for the prequels, he really DID tell the basic story he wanted to tell about why Anakin fell, and I just didn't find it entertaining. Anakin's motivation? That's ALL Lucas, and I doubt it could've been written in a way that would've made it appeal as much as the version I have in my head. He could've executed his version better, but my version's cooler to me.

AMEN! After the gut-wrenching disappointment that TPM was, I remember thinking that Ep. II would have to be better. Then, I remember reading somewhere that they actually began filming Ep. II without a script. Then, I knew with certainty, Lucas' priorities were completely out of whack. Having waited all those years to make these films, he basically waited until the day before the test to start studying. And the finished scripts give one the impression that he was up all night the night before filming just jotting it all down on a roll of toilet paper just so that he had something to "hand in". It was as if 90-95% of the energy and resources went into polishing the turd, so to speak. The script and the story were almost treated as afterthoughts. And I agree with you about Lucas' "version". I deny the prequels ENTIRELY. The story of Anakin Skywalker has never been told as far as I'm concerned. They simply are not Star Wars. Like you, the version in my head is far better, and in the absence of a suitable story or series of films, that's what I'm sticking with. But, with Disney now the owner there is always hope that Episodes I-III will be made someday.

It's a moot point for me now. The past few years have managed to teach me to ignore the prequels altogether, the same as you. I have my own version in my head, and that's fine. Some of it contains visual elements and such from the PT, but mostly it's just my story, in broad strokes. And I'm good with that. Anakin's story is really...kind of irrelevant, if you're focused on the OT the way I am (the OOT, that is, not the SEs).

It's interesting, really. These past few years, with what happened to Star Wars, and Star Trek and such...it's made me a lot more resilient to my favorite franchises being mishandled. I've gotten better at saying "Yeah, but there's only THREE Indiana Jones movies," and even being able to enjoy those new movies with Star Trek in the title. It's not what I consider Trek, but it can still be an entertaining roller coaster ride (and certainly is a damnsight better than Transformers...).

I guess in a weird way, I have Lucas to thank for that. As a result, though, I don't really have high expectations for future Star Wars films. I don't expect them to feel like Star Wars for me, but still generally being hopeful that they'll be fun films to watch. As long as I can watch the OT, at this point, I don't really care about anything else all that much. There's enough stuff out there for me to keep me happy.

I haven't seen Into Darkness yet, but that's encouraging, at least from a technical point of view. I think you're probably right that Lucas is more a "big ideas"-and-technology guy, rather than an effective storyteller, but that still goes against his earlier statement about F/X without a story. I think the problem is that his story was just...weak. No amount of kickass fight sequences or eye-popping F/X could save it. And he was unwilling to relinquish control to other people for "his stories," so we got what we got.

spot on right there..

he seemed like such an over excited child in the prequels filling every scene up with as much random 'gumph' as possible.. a wife for jabba, daft droids, farting animals.. its just childish and not necessary. not just effects too, his story stunk of the same. chewie mates with yoda? i can't help he threw that in just for the sake of it.

the worst crime though was the re-done OT. one example would be anh when luke's just seen his family burnt alive, lost everything.. now decided to leave the only home he's known to follow 'ben' and what does lucas do? fills the background with jawa's falling off creatures, stepping in dung, pointless droids bobbing about in the background making silly noises

i think you were right with your original phrasing of undermining the story as it really did.. completely undermined the solemn feeling the story had at that point and filled it with things that belong on a childrens cartoon show.. ruined..

i really hope its a little more 'stripped back' in the next ones but i doubt it. it'll be a 100mph roller coaster ride with plenty of lens flare and action up the wazoo.. but.. at least it won't be 'silly'

Honestly, I'm ok with what you describe. I don't expect much more than that anymore. If it's entertaining and a good thrill ride, that's fine by me. The OT is its own thing, separate and special to me. Everything else is secondary to me.

^I'm glad I'm not as depressed as you guys... :lol

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's not depression. It's recognizing that you can't get what you want exactly and being ok with that. Depression was earlier, like, when the Prequels were coming out and EVERYTHING Star Wars related was shifting to the prequel era. Now? Whatever. I've got my OT. I'm good.

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's not depression. It's recognizing that you can't get what you want exactly and being ok with that. Depression was earlier, like, when the Prequels were coming out and EVERYTHING Star Wars related was shifting to the prequel era. Now? Whatever. I've got my OT. I'm good.

Joking aside, I know what you mean. But I think the ST (Sequel Trilogy; your moniker, no?) will help assuage the prequel-inflicted injuries we've all sustained.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Joking aside, I know what you mean. But I think the ST (Sequel Trilogy; your moniker, no?) will help assuage the prequel-inflicted injuries we've all sustained.

Close! Mine was "NT" for "New Trilogy."

I'm trying not to get my hopes up that much. I'm hoping for an entertaining, well executed thrill-ride. That's it. I'd prefer something along the lines of, say, the first three Indy films in vibe to the PT. No need to tackle heavy stuff or try to get "dark." Take the material and the story seriously, but you don't have to make it all about angst and whatnot.

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Close! Mine was "NT" for "New Trilogy."

I'm trying not to get my hopes up that much. I'm hoping for an entertaining, well executed thrill-ride. That's it. I'd prefer something along the lines of, say, the first three Indy films in vibe to the PT. No need to tackle heavy stuff or try to get "dark." Take the material and the story seriously, but you don't have to make it all about angst and whatnot.

Ah! I'm off track, then. Whose was the ST...?

Anyway, I can do without "dark" also; leave that to Batman. What I'm looking for is retro SW, well-thought-out dialogue/script, consummate acting, and a galaxy devoid of EU nonsense...

 

[Marv]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

As long as they kick in to touch all the old characters and have new I'd be happy that is perhaps with out the exception the ones that are really needed. I mean when you see the PT the fact that its set in a star field of millions of planets but yet decades before the OT all we run into out of Billions of life forms are the same two droids a wookie, and the same fat slug and even putting Boba Fett in was annoying wasn't the fact you had the Emperor, Yoda Obi Wan and Vader enough of a tie in to the old films? I cannot grasp why Clones had to change armour in these films but had been acceptable for the OT, why not stick with Stormtroopers from day one, Star destroyers Tie fighters and X-wings AAAARRRGH?

 

[SuperFLY]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

they're bringing back the original cast as far as i know.. well, trying to at least.

doubt they'll be lead roles though. i want them to do the jedi knight: jedi outcast and academy game stories personally

the changing of the armour and all that is simply dollar signs.. change them so people buy new ones. they're only 20 ish years apart (prequal to OT) so the uniforms/ships wouldnt have changed that much.. hell in the EU set thousands of years previous, lightsabers, ships, stations etc.. weren't far off what they were in the OT!

it's done because they can..

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Lucas fell prey to the very thing he warned against: "A special effect without a good story is a really boring thing." And I think he just got so wrapped up with how COOL all his effects were, that it ended up undermining a lot of his story. Actually, undermining isn't really the right word. Distracting. I think he got distracted by the effects and visuals, and as a result figured "The story's good" when it really could've been a LOT better. Although part of me also thinks that, for the prequels, he really DID tell the basic story he wanted to tell about why Anakin fell, and I just didn't find it entertaining. Anakin's motivation? That's ALL Lucas, and I doubt it could've been written in a way that would've made it appeal as much as the version I have in my head. He could've executed his version better, but my version's cooler to me.

The main problem with the Prequel Trilogy movies is that they focus more on Palpatine's rise to power and the politics of the Star Wars universe than on Anakin's rise to glory and fall from grace, which should have been the main story arc through the three PT movies. Somewhere (possibly in one of the features on the Revenge of the Sith DVD?) Lucas acknowledged this, commenting something to the effect that when he sat down to write the script for RotS he suddenly realized he had to squeeze Anakin's story into one movie because he'd spent so much time on everything else in the previous two movies. The Prequel Trilogy movies might have been the story he wanted to tell, but they sure weren't the story he should have told.

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The main problem with the Prequel Trilogy movies is that they focus more on Palpatine's rise to power and the politics of the Star Wars universe than on Anakin's rise to glory and fall from grace, which should have been the main story arc through the three PT movies. Somewhere (possibly in one of the features on the Revenge of the Sith DVD?) Lucas acknowledged this, commenting something to the effect that when he sat down to write the script for RotS he suddenly realized he had to squeeze Anakin's story into one movie because he'd spent so much time on everything else in the previous two movies. The Prequel Trilogy movies might have been the story he wanted to tell, but they sure weren't the story he should have told.

I'm a proponent of Palpatine's story, but you're definitely right about Anakin. His story should have been told differently.

 

[Jedi-72]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The main problem with the Prequel Trilogy movies is that they focus more on Palpatine's rise to power and the politics of the Star Wars universe than on Anakin's rise to glory and fall from grace, which should have been the main story arc through the three PT movies. Somewhere (possibly in one of the features on the Revenge of the Sith DVD?) Lucas acknowledged this, commenting something to the effect that when he sat down to write the script for RotS he suddenly realized he had to squeeze Anakin's story into one movie because he'd spent so much time on everything else in the previous two movies. The Prequel Trilogy movies might have been the story he wanted to tell, but they sure weren't the story he should have told.

This is what comes of working solo, as Lucas did. He didn't have a working focus as to what the story should have been. He didn't realize until ROTS that he had to cram Anakin's story into one movie? Insane. This is why collaborators are so key for someone like Lucas. He NEEDS people to give his ideas shape and structure. Left to his own devices he just kind of wanders and indulges every whim, no matter how disconnected from the story they may be.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think JJ will successfully recreate the Star Wars we all love, but I can help thinking he will want to put his own signature in a few places like he did with Keenser in Star Trek.

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think JJ will successfully recreate the Star Wars we all love, but I can help thinking he will want to put his own signature in a few places like he did with Keenser in Star Trek.

They couldn't be any worse than some of GL's signatures. I do love the man for he did, after all, create this galaxy we all are so fond of, but he did flub majorly here and there. I'm not worried about JJ at all.

 

[Edwardowan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

If the three films focused more directly on just Palpatine, Anakin and Kenobi with Yoda as supporting character it could have been better. Knowing how Palpatine worked his way into the position of power and have the ability to undo the Jedi order was needed and very interesting but much of that could have been just suggested or talked about... where as, Qui-Gon wasn't really necessary... Obi Wan could have had all of that character's actions and discovered Anakin and "took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi and thought that he could instruct him just as well as Yoda.... but was wrong." that should have been the focus... and make Anakin the charming charismatic likable hero.... the Jedi could still be wary of his training because of being older and Obi Wan's way of training of him... Afterall, in ESB Obi Wan said;
Yoda: You are reckless!

BEN'S VOICE: So was I, if you'll remember.
YODA: Hmmm. Much anger in him, like his father.

BEN'S VOICE: Was I any different when you taught me?

So right there shows that it should have been Obi Wan that was the defiant drifter Jedi and no real need for a character like Qui Gon.

Anakin's pain and angst should have been held within and hinted at and only revealed at a later time... this way his fall would have been more tragic and more shocking... for me, anakin was a spoiled brat whiner so I didn't care if he fell from the Jedi order but if he was really likable then slowly reveal his inner pain and paranoia and perhaps panic for his vision of Padme' dying and his desperation to keep that from happening even if that meant learning how to from a Sith, then that would have been even more wicked to show him gettin caught up more unwillingly to Palpatine's Dark Side trickery.... well, like most all of you I too have a different if not better version of anakin's story in my head. .... if only....

 

[Solo]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Coulda woulda shoulda. I'm sure all of us here could come up with a better story than what GL concocted. But it's much easier to do after the fact, it seems. No sense crying over spilled milk.

Now back to the new (and hopefully great) sequels...

 

[Father]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

In going into expecting nothing but cuttin edge effects. If there's actually a story mixed into that'll be an added bonus but my expectations for almost anything that isn't the first in a series has been diminished by repeated disappointments.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

In going into expecting nothing but cuttin edge effects. If there's actually a story mixed into that'll be an added bonus but my expectations for almost anything that isn't the first in a series has been diminished by repeated disappointments.

The key it seems is to keep the story SIMPLE. Of all things the PT probably tried to give us too much plot.

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

...Knowing how Palpatine worked his way into the position of power and have the ability to undo the Jedi order was needed...

Palpatine/Sidious is an interesting character, but The Phantom Menace could just as easily have begun with him already in a position of power; that alone would have saved Lucas a great deal of time.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Palpatine/Sidious is an interesting character, but The Phantom Menace could just as easily have begun with him already in a position of power; that alone would have saved Lucas a great deal of time.

When I was younger I always saw Palpatine as kind of a Julius Caesar "General" character in his youth. Someone who was already in power and then seized the whole thing through military means (The Clone Wars). Helps explain why he was playing tactician in the battle over Endor as well.

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

When I was younger I always saw Palpatine as kind of a Julius Caesar "General" character in his youth. Someone who was already in power and then seized the whole thing through military means (The Clone Wars). Helps explain why he was playing tactician in the battle over Endor as well.

To expand on that, I've long thought that Palpatine/Sidious manipulated the events that led to the battle over Endor just so that he could get close to Luke and turn him into Vader 2.0.

 

[Father]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Helps explain why he was playing tactician in the battle over Endor as well.

And even with the force and being able to glean future events.... look how well that turned out for him.