Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
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Bigdaddy
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I don't know how they'll work them into the script (don't want to know) but it could be done without being cheesy. I'm going to see this on the big screen for sure :thumbsup. Even after PM I went to see the next 2 in the theater, I can't imagine it being worse than PM (and I have a very good imagination! :lol)
I don't know how they'll work them into the script (don't want to know) but it could be done without being cheesy. I'm going to see this on the big screen for sure :thumbsup. Even after PM I went to see the next 2 in the theater, I can't imagine it being worse than PM (and I have a very good imagination! :lol)
jme3
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I'm going to make an official declaration: "Episode VII will NOT be worse than the prequels."
There. :lol
I'm going to make an official declaration: "Episode VII will NOT be worse than the prequels."
There. :lol
ghostryder
Legendary Member
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Things I want in Episode VII:
Light saber battles
Hyperspace/lightspeed visual effects
Physical sets and makeup
Huge spaceships
John Williams music
Things I DO NOT want in Episode VII:
Midichlorians
Jar jar
Bad cgi
Pop culture references
Any music NOT by John Williams
List is a work in progress. More to come lol.
Things I want in Episode VII:
Light saber battles
Hyperspace/lightspeed visual effects
Physical sets and makeup
Huge spaceships
John Williams music
Things I DO NOT want in Episode VII:
Midichlorians
Jar jar
Bad cgi
Pop culture references
Any music NOT by John Williams
List is a work in progress. More to come lol.
Last edited:
seelsa73
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Is that really him in the video? I've never seen a pic of him so I'm genuinely curious.
Is that really him in the video? I've never seen a pic of him so I'm genuinely curious.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
That's just it. I see nostalgia as a trap most of the time. You want to recapture a feeling that is basically impossible to recapture. You aren't the same you that you were when you first saw it. The world isn't the same world. The characters won't be the same characters.
Sticking older versions of the original characters into the film is going to have, in my opinion, the opposite effect of nostalgia: it will instead remind you of how much has changed, rather than preserving what came before. Best to let them always remain young heroes in your mind and on your screen.
Instead, I think that the GOAL of nostalgia -- to create the same FEELING you had before -- can be achieved better by using new characters, new actors, and telling a new story.
This is something that, I think, is actually counter-intuitive, so it doesn't surprise me that studios tend to default to "Remember that time that Han said 'I know' and Luke said 'I have a bad feeling about this' and there were TIE Fighters and X-wings and a wookie? That was cool." They do this by just trotting out the same stuff as before, making "in-joke" references back to the originals, etc. To me, this only highlights the differences between then and now. Seeing a grizzled old Harrison Ford phoning in Han Solo-isms won't return you to your childhood; it will remind you of how old you are.
Honestly, I don't think they even need that. You could just as easily push the story three generations into the future, safely removing everyone from anything approaching a DIRECT connection to the OT, while still maintaining the overall feel of the story. Maybe you have Luke appear as a Force ghost or on some Holocron recording, providing guidance generations later or something, but that's it. The continuity can be achieved with the universe and setting itself, and the concepts introduced. You don't need character continuity. What happened next is that everyone got old and died and some had kids, and those kids got old and died or died younger than they should have. That's what happened next. Tell a new story with new characters instead, I say. We can always do a DVD extra sequence like what happened on the Animal House Double Secret Probation DVD.
The more I think about it, the less I think it could be done WITHOUT being cheesy. Think about it. Luke's the only one with an absolutely clear and obvious path in the future -- he becomes a Jedi Master and instructs the next generation of Jedi. What about Leia? Does she have kids? Does she marry Han? Does she become president of the Restored Republic? Does she form a new royal dynasty on New Alderaan? And the more "grey" moral characters are even harder to deal with. Does Han settle down? Plenty of people think that's unrealistic and unappealing. But I think it's equally unrealistic and unappealing to see him tottering around the galaxy at age 70-something, still making his way as a smuggler. O h, wait. I get it. BEcause he's older now, he's more powerful and has become a smuggling crime lord. Or a shipping magnate. I mean, come on. Is THIS the Han Solo you really want to see? Not me. And Lando, too. What, he's now back to being an administrator? A general? Each of the characters would, in my mind, seem diminished from who they were in the OT if we were to show them now. In the OT they're legends. In the NT (I'm coining that now -- New Trilogy), they'd just be mortals. Do you really want to see Hercules get old and grey?
Low hanging fruit, man.
That's just it. I see nostalgia as a trap most of the time. You want to recapture a feeling that is basically impossible to recapture. You aren't the same you that you were when you first saw it. The world isn't the same world. The characters won't be the same characters.
Sticking older versions of the original characters into the film is going to have, in my opinion, the opposite effect of nostalgia: it will instead remind you of how much has changed, rather than preserving what came before. Best to let them always remain young heroes in your mind and on your screen.
Instead, I think that the GOAL of nostalgia -- to create the same FEELING you had before -- can be achieved better by using new characters, new actors, and telling a new story.
This is something that, I think, is actually counter-intuitive, so it doesn't surprise me that studios tend to default to "Remember that time that Han said 'I know' and Luke said 'I have a bad feeling about this' and there were TIE Fighters and X-wings and a wookie? That was cool." They do this by just trotting out the same stuff as before, making "in-joke" references back to the originals, etc. To me, this only highlights the differences between then and now. Seeing a grizzled old Harrison Ford phoning in Han Solo-isms won't return you to your childhood; it will remind you of how old you are.
Honestly, I don't think they even need that. You could just as easily push the story three generations into the future, safely removing everyone from anything approaching a DIRECT connection to the OT, while still maintaining the overall feel of the story. Maybe you have Luke appear as a Force ghost or on some Holocron recording, providing guidance generations later or something, but that's it. The continuity can be achieved with the universe and setting itself, and the concepts introduced. You don't need character continuity. What happened next is that everyone got old and died and some had kids, and those kids got old and died or died younger than they should have. That's what happened next. Tell a new story with new characters instead, I say. We can always do a DVD extra sequence like what happened on the Animal House Double Secret Probation DVD.
The more I think about it, the less I think it could be done WITHOUT being cheesy. Think about it. Luke's the only one with an absolutely clear and obvious path in the future -- he becomes a Jedi Master and instructs the next generation of Jedi. What about Leia? Does she have kids? Does she marry Han? Does she become president of the Restored Republic? Does she form a new royal dynasty on New Alderaan? And the more "grey" moral characters are even harder to deal with. Does Han settle down? Plenty of people think that's unrealistic and unappealing. But I think it's equally unrealistic and unappealing to see him tottering around the galaxy at age 70-something, still making his way as a smuggler. O h, wait. I get it. BEcause he's older now, he's more powerful and has become a smuggling crime lord. Or a shipping magnate. I mean, come on. Is THIS the Han Solo you really want to see? Not me. And Lando, too. What, he's now back to being an administrator? A general? Each of the characters would, in my mind, seem diminished from who they were in the OT if we were to show them now. In the OT they're legends. In the NT (I'm coining that now -- New Trilogy), they'd just be mortals. Do you really want to see Hercules get old and grey?
Low hanging fruit, man.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Well that sort of implies the majority are making a mistake in their thinking and you are trying to correct that. I don't disagree with your thesis as to why their inclusion can be problematic, Dan, especially using the last Indy film as a case in point, but we don't have any context to gauge how these characters may be used and shouldn't assume the worst. If anything we should acknowledge that, especially for us older OT fans, seeing these beloved characters one last tone on the big screen will likely be magical.
Well that sort of implies the majority are making a mistake in their thinking and you are trying to correct that.
I don't disagree with your thesis as to why their inclusion can be problematic, Dan, especially using the last Indy film as a case in point, but we don't have any context to gauge how these characters may be used and shouldn't assume the worst. If anything we should acknowledge that, especially for us older OT fans, seeing these beloved characters one last tone on the big screen will likely be magical.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Any of the above are possible, but they aren't the only way to go with the story. I don't think 70 yr olds have to "totter around", (I know a few who don't) so I'm keeping an open mind (and wallet :lol) I don't think Patton was dimished by being a general, nor by his age. I'm hoping the writers can work the OT character into the story in a meaningful way ( I maintain that it can be done with good writers) but of course we have 2 yrs to speculate about it.
Any of the above are possible, but they aren't the only way to go with the story. I don't think 70 yr olds have to "totter around", (I know a few who don't
) so I'm keeping an open mind (and wallet :lol) I don't think Patton was dimished by being a general, nor by his age. I'm hoping the writers can work the OT character into the story in a meaningful way ( I maintain that it can be done with good writers) but of course we have 2 yrs to speculate about it.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I'm trying to, yeah. Not just with this property, but in general. This applies to much of what Hollywood does these days, particularly with things like remakes, reboots, etc. And, as usual, nobody's really listening or at least agreeing. >sigh<
Patton also wasn't an iconoclastic smuggler in his youth. He was career military all the way, so seeing him as a general made sense.
My basis for concern isn't anything inherent with this series or any news that I've seen about its development, as much as it is with the way Hollywood seems to approach moviemaking in general with its reliance on the most obvious connections to previous entries. It's the same reason why I REALLY doubt that a Ghostbusters 3 would be worth a wet fart, by the way. I just don't believe that Hollywood today is willing to really take the kind of risks I'm talking about, even with a property as "safe" as Star Wars. And so, instead, they'll just revert to "Look who's back!" which might as well be accompanied by the audience clapping as Ted Danson walks on to the set of Frazier or whatever.
Well that sort of implies the majority are making a mistake in their thinking and you are trying to correct that.
I'm trying to, yeah. Not just with this property, but in general. This applies to much of what Hollywood does these days, particularly with things like remakes, reboots, etc. And, as usual, nobody's really listening or at least agreeing. >sigh<
Any of the above are possible, but they aren't the only way to go with the story. I don't think 70 yr olds have to "totter around", (I know a few who don't
Patton also wasn't an iconoclastic smuggler in his youth. He was career military all the way, so seeing him as a general made sense.
My basis for concern isn't anything inherent with this series or any news that I've seen about its development, as much as it is with the way Hollywood seems to approach moviemaking in general with its reliance on the most obvious connections to previous entries. It's the same reason why I REALLY doubt that a Ghostbusters 3 would be worth a wet fart, by the way. I just don't believe that Hollywood today is willing to really take the kind of risks I'm talking about, even with a property as "safe" as Star Wars. And so, instead, they'll just revert to "Look who's back!" which might as well be accompanied by the audience clapping as Ted Danson walks on to the set of Frazier or whatever.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Alright when you put it that way, point well taken,. GB3: agreed, (GB2 was a train wreck IMO) I still think it can be done well. we'll have to wait and see if it's done well. Indy 4 could have been done well....
Alright when you put it that way, point well taken,
. GB3: agreed, (GB2 was a train wreck IMO) I still think it can be done well. we'll have to wait and see if it's done well. Indy 4 could have been done well....
jme3
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I don't think Star Wars can make me aware of "how old" I am any more than I already am...:lol And while Star Wars was definitely a product of its time and place, so to speak, I'm not of the mind that seeing these characters again is somehow going to jar me back to a reality that I don't want to be in. And I'm by no means out to re-live my childhood. But for me, and arguably an awful lot of other people, the story of Star Wars was/is largely about these characters and I'm very much interested in seeing where they've been taken and what they've been doing. I don't think that just because someone's hit 70 that they're ready for the knacker's yard. What do I see Han doing? Who knows? I really don't see him as settled, but he's still alive and doing something, as presumably are the others. Unless, of course, we come to find out in JJ Abrams' infinite wisdom that they all have indeed bit the dust. If so, so be it. But none of this in any way gets in the way of other Star Wars stories being told, and I'd personally really like to see new characters, new locales, new ships, new adventures, etc. just like you, some/much of which can be mixed in with Episode VII and do nicely for all involved. I'm just not seeing any inevitable destruction of Star Wars by including the classic characters in the mix. If the prequels didn't destroy Star Wars, what can...?
I don't think Star Wars can make me aware of "how old" I am any more than I already am...:lol And while Star Wars was definitely a product of its time and place, so to speak, I'm not of the mind that seeing these characters again is somehow going to jar me back to a reality that I don't want to be in. And I'm by no means out to re-live my childhood. But for me, and arguably an awful lot of other people, the story of Star Wars was/is largely about these characters and I'm very much interested in seeing where they've been taken and what they've been doing. I don't think that just because someone's hit 70 that they're ready for the knacker's yard. What do I see Han doing? Who knows? I really don't see him as settled, but he's still alive and doing something, as presumably are the others. Unless, of course, we come to find out in JJ Abrams' infinite wisdom that they all have indeed bit the dust. If so, so be it. But none of this in any way gets in the way of other Star Wars stories being told, and I'd personally really like to see new characters, new locales, new ships, new adventures, etc. just like you, some/much of which can be mixed in with Episode VII and do nicely for all involved. I'm just not seeing any inevitable destruction of Star Wars by including the classic characters in the mix. If the prequels didn't destroy Star Wars, what can...?
jme3
Sr Member
Brent M
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Me too. They simply can't call the movie Episode VII and not have the original cast in it. At the least you need Luke there to show the Jedi Order has been rebuilt. While I'd like to see them, I'd rather have them having small parts, maybe there to give the new characters their missions and then to guide them along. I really don't see any problem with them portraying older versions of their characters as long as the line "I'm getting too old for this..." never appears in the movie! You didn't see Yoda bitching when he was 900 years old, so none of them can. :lol
Me too. They simply can't call the movie Episode VII and not have the original cast in it. At the least you need Luke there to show the Jedi Order has been rebuilt. While I'd like to see them, I'd rather have them having small parts, maybe there to give the new characters their missions and then to guide them along. I really don't see any problem with them portraying older versions of their characters as long as the line "I'm getting too old for this..." never appears in the movie! You didn't see Yoda bitching when he was 900 years old, so none of them can. :lol
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