Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
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Bigdaddy
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
opcorn
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't discuss it, I just find it entertaining when a discussion seems focused on logic and then fiction is inserted as an explanation, its "metaphysical not biology" makes as much sense as "it's not narnia it's math" :lol carry on the discussion
opcorn
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
No that would be silly, but the comment I was refering to was not directly about the films, it was about the "force" and the way it was perceived by us as kids. sorry didn't mean to offend or derail the thread
cboath
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Never was a fan of fett that much.
I am a fan of maul. I realize there wasn't anything really to his character other than being 'the visible bad guy', but I loved what Ray was able to accomplish in limited screen time and no dialog. The motions he used just epitomized pure evil. The scene in the naboo hanger where he forces grabs something to hit the switch to open the door is the perfect example.
Never was a fan of fett that much.
I am a fan of maul. I realize there wasn't anything really to his character other than being 'the visible bad guy', but I loved what Ray was able to accomplish in limited screen time and no dialog. The motions he used just epitomized pure evil. The scene in the naboo hanger where he forces grabs something to hit the switch to open the door is the perfect example.
jme3
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
You're right; Ray Park gave a hell of a performance in bringing Maul to life, however short-lived he was. I mentioned in another post how he should have been the mainstay in Sidious's stable through all three films rather than being killed off so quickly. Neither of the other two villains were steps up from what he was.
You're right; Ray Park gave a hell of a performance in bringing Maul to life, however short-lived he was. I mentioned in another post how he should have been the mainstay in Sidious's stable through all three films rather than being killed off so quickly. Neither of the other two villains were steps up from what he was.
seelsa73
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
The midi-chlorians don't negate the existence of the the metaphysical Force. They are there to explain why only the jedi can manipulate the metaphysical Force the way they do, not to define the Force itself, which is how everyone who is anti-midi-chlorians justifies their argument.
And it's not just the Jedi who have midi-chlorians within them. All life from the smallest insect to the largest space slug has midi-chlorians, which create the Force, within their cells. Jedi simply have more midi-chlorians than the average life form, allowing them to access the power of the metaphysical Force.
And never was it said in any of the OT "that anyone could tap into if they just believed strongly enough and had that strength of character," nor was it ever hinted to in that way. That's just the way individual viewers interpreted it, not the way it was intended.
The midi-chlorians don't negate the existence of the the metaphysical Force. They are there to explain why only the jedi can manipulate the metaphysical Force the way they do, not to define the Force itself, which is how everyone who is anti-midi-chlorians justifies their argument.
And it's not just the Jedi who have midi-chlorians within them. All life from the smallest insect to the largest space slug has midi-chlorians, which create the Force, within their cells. Jedi simply have more midi-chlorians than the average life form, allowing them to access the power of the metaphysical Force.
And never was it said in any of the OT "that anyone could tap into if they just believed strongly enough and had that strength of character," nor was it ever hinted to in that way. That's just the way individual viewers interpreted it, not the way it was intended.
Edwardowan
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."
From The Force - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
The Force existed in all life, and when great amounts of life passed away, a disturbance was created, running through the Force like a scream that Force-adepts could hear. ...This happened when Alderaan was destroyed; Obi-Wan Kenobi sensed "a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.…". ... It was suggested that Yoda could not even stand on Kashyyyk as Order 66 was being executed. It was as if Yoda was being overpowered by the disturbance caused by the many simultaneous Jedi deaths.
The Force was a metaphysical, binding, and ubiquitous power that held enormous importance for both the Jedi and Sith monastic orders.
Known as the Way in ancient times,[1] the Force was viewed in many different aspects, including, but not limited to, the light side, the dark side, the Unifying Force, and the Living Force.
The first two aspects were concerned with the moral compass of the Force, as manifested by the conduct and emotions of living creatures who were themselves part of the fabric of the Force. The light side of the Force was the facet aligned with compassion, selflessness, self-knowledge and enlightenment, healing, mercy and benevolence, while the dark side of the Force was the element aligned with hatred, fear, covetousness, anger, aggression, jealousy and malevolence.
The latter two aspects were defined by prominent Jedi philosophies: The Unifying Force essentially embraced space and time in its entirety while the Living Force dealt with the energy of living things. Though the Force was categorized in this way, there were no specific abilities or powers that were only usable by a follower of a different path of the Force; the Force partially existed inside the life forms that used it, and drew energy from their emotions.
Some beings, particularly the Sith, believed that the dark side of the Force was more powerful than the light, though it was possible that the dark side was just more tempting to those who used it (or desired to use it). Others thought of the Force as an entity capable of intelligent thought, almost as a sort of deity. Anakin Skywalker, who was believed to have been conceived by the Force itself, may have shared this belief; if this was indeed the case, it would add credence towards the view of the Force as a sentient entity.
Though the Force was thought to flow through every living thing, its power could only be harnessed by beings described as "Force-sensitive." This Force-sensitivity was correlated with, and sometimes attributed to, a high count of internal microorganisms called midi-chlorians that were found in a Force-sensitive's blood: the higher the count, the greater the being's potential Force ability, though there were some exceptions to this rule. Force-sensitive beings were able to tap into the Force to perform acts of great skill and agility as well as control and shape the world around them. Sometimes this ability was described as having a strong Force "aura".
The Living Force was a view on the Force, accepted by the majority of Jedi throughout ages. The Living Force was thought to be present in most living beings, surrounding and penetrating them, thus making all living things connected by it. The Jedi believing in the Living Force relied on their instincts and were attuned to other living beings around them. They were mindful of the future and the possible consequences of their actions, but remained focused on the present. The Living Force was viewed as having both the light and the dark side. The Jedi always had to be mindful of their actions to avoid the temptations of the dark side. Through following the Living Force, several Jedi were able to retain their identities after their physical death, becoming one with the Force and able to manifest themselves as Force ghosts. Proponents of the Living Force view, such as Qui-Gon Jinn, espoused a philosophy of "living in the moment," relied heavily on their instincts and concentrated more on sensitivity to living things, rather than fulfilling destiny, which was one of the main tenets of the Unifying Force philosophy.
The concept of the Unifying Force found fewer supporters within the Jedi Order than the Living Force. The concept of the Unifying Force was that the Force is a single entity and has neither a light nor a dark side. The Unifying Force was viewed as a deity that neither had sides nor chose them, treating all beings equally. Followers of the Unifying Force always kept their eyes open for future possibilities. In the end, it resulted in them trying to fulfill a destiny rather than focusing on here and now, as the Living Force supporter would do.
Visions of the future were of particular significance to Unifying Force supporters. Yoda was one of the most adamant proponents of heeding visions of the future though never once acknowledged any of the other views common with the Unifying Force. Many of the Jedi held a similar philosophy, and focused on the flow of time as a whole, ignoring primary use of the Living Force. Voices for the latter espoused a philosophy of "live for the moment" and heavily relied on their instincts. This viewpoint might have allowed the Jedi Order to stave off the conflict that gave rise to the Galactic Empire, as its members lost themselves in looking forward rather than analyzing the unfolding events before them. Yoda later espoused beliefs closer to the philosophy of the Living Force when training Luke Skywalker on Dagobah.
Ironically for Unifying Force Jedi, Emperor Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, also supported this belief. He claimed that there was only one Force: the only difference worthy of note was that the Sith saw the Force as a means to an end while the Jedi saw it as an end in itself. This view was also supported by Vergere, who taught Jacen Solo that there was no light side or dark side of the Force—only the Unifying Force. Vergere also told Solo that "the Force was everything, and everything was the Force"; that the Force did not have sides and never took sides.
"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."
From The Force - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
The Force existed in all life, and when great amounts of life passed away, a disturbance was created, running through the Force like a scream that Force-adepts could hear. ...This happened when Alderaan was destroyed; Obi-Wan Kenobi sensed "a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.…". ... It was suggested that Yoda could not even stand on Kashyyyk as Order 66 was being executed. It was as if Yoda was being overpowered by the disturbance caused by the many simultaneous Jedi deaths.
The Force was a metaphysical, binding, and ubiquitous power that held enormous importance for both the Jedi and Sith monastic orders.
Known as the Way in ancient times,[1] the Force was viewed in many different aspects, including, but not limited to, the light side, the dark side, the Unifying Force, and the Living Force.
The first two aspects were concerned with the moral compass of the Force, as manifested by the conduct and emotions of living creatures who were themselves part of the fabric of the Force. The light side of the Force was the facet aligned with compassion, selflessness, self-knowledge and enlightenment, healing, mercy and benevolence, while the dark side of the Force was the element aligned with hatred, fear, covetousness, anger, aggression, jealousy and malevolence.
The latter two aspects were defined by prominent Jedi philosophies: The Unifying Force essentially embraced space and time in its entirety while the Living Force dealt with the energy of living things. Though the Force was categorized in this way, there were no specific abilities or powers that were only usable by a follower of a different path of the Force; the Force partially existed inside the life forms that used it, and drew energy from their emotions.
Some beings, particularly the Sith, believed that the dark side of the Force was more powerful than the light, though it was possible that the dark side was just more tempting to those who used it (or desired to use it). Others thought of the Force as an entity capable of intelligent thought, almost as a sort of deity. Anakin Skywalker, who was believed to have been conceived by the Force itself, may have shared this belief; if this was indeed the case, it would add credence towards the view of the Force as a sentient entity.
Though the Force was thought to flow through every living thing, its power could only be harnessed by beings described as "Force-sensitive." This Force-sensitivity was correlated with, and sometimes attributed to, a high count of internal microorganisms called midi-chlorians that were found in a Force-sensitive's blood: the higher the count, the greater the being's potential Force ability, though there were some exceptions to this rule. Force-sensitive beings were able to tap into the Force to perform acts of great skill and agility as well as control and shape the world around them. Sometimes this ability was described as having a strong Force "aura".
The Living Force was a view on the Force, accepted by the majority of Jedi throughout ages. The Living Force was thought to be present in most living beings, surrounding and penetrating them, thus making all living things connected by it. The Jedi believing in the Living Force relied on their instincts and were attuned to other living beings around them. They were mindful of the future and the possible consequences of their actions, but remained focused on the present. The Living Force was viewed as having both the light and the dark side. The Jedi always had to be mindful of their actions to avoid the temptations of the dark side. Through following the Living Force, several Jedi were able to retain their identities after their physical death, becoming one with the Force and able to manifest themselves as Force ghosts. Proponents of the Living Force view, such as Qui-Gon Jinn, espoused a philosophy of "living in the moment," relied heavily on their instincts and concentrated more on sensitivity to living things, rather than fulfilling destiny, which was one of the main tenets of the Unifying Force philosophy.
The concept of the Unifying Force found fewer supporters within the Jedi Order than the Living Force. The concept of the Unifying Force was that the Force is a single entity and has neither a light nor a dark side. The Unifying Force was viewed as a deity that neither had sides nor chose them, treating all beings equally. Followers of the Unifying Force always kept their eyes open for future possibilities. In the end, it resulted in them trying to fulfill a destiny rather than focusing on here and now, as the Living Force supporter would do.
Visions of the future were of particular significance to Unifying Force supporters. Yoda was one of the most adamant proponents of heeding visions of the future though never once acknowledged any of the other views common with the Unifying Force. Many of the Jedi held a similar philosophy, and focused on the flow of time as a whole, ignoring primary use of the Living Force. Voices for the latter espoused a philosophy of "live for the moment" and heavily relied on their instincts. This viewpoint might have allowed the Jedi Order to stave off the conflict that gave rise to the Galactic Empire, as its members lost themselves in looking forward rather than analyzing the unfolding events before them. Yoda later espoused beliefs closer to the philosophy of the Living Force when training Luke Skywalker on Dagobah.
Ironically for Unifying Force Jedi, Emperor Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, also supported this belief. He claimed that there was only one Force: the only difference worthy of note was that the Sith saw the Force as a means to an end while the Jedi saw it as an end in itself. This view was also supported by Vergere, who taught Jacen Solo that there was no light side or dark side of the Force—only the Unifying Force. Vergere also told Solo that "the Force was everything, and everything was the Force"; that the Force did not have sides and never took sides.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I don't think the midichlorians changed anything. They are just like antennae for the Force. The more you have the more power you have. I still think they should have let it be, but they would have had to have some way to test someone on their ability. It also makes more sense in how exactly the Empire hunted down the Jedi. Surely you don't think Vader just wandered around the galaxy hoping to sense another Jedi? Maybe they just waited for one to whip out his lightsaber or something.
I don't think the midichlorians changed anything. They are just like antennae for the Force. The more you have the more power you have. I still think they should have let it be, but they would have had to have some way to test someone on their ability. It also makes more sense in how exactly the Empire hunted down the Jedi. Surely you don't think Vader just wandered around the galaxy hoping to sense another Jedi? Maybe they just waited for one to whip out his lightsaber or something.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Ray Park and Jeremy Bulloch were great in their roles. Ray Park especially give a physicality and presence to Darth Maul. Had his character lived and been a recurring role in the PT, it would have been interesting to see what could have been.
In the OT, it seemed to be that May the Force be with you, meant believe in yourself. In that way it resonated with viewers. I understand that the midichlorians were there to explain why the Jedi were able to use and tap into the Force, but why did that even need an explanation?
Ray Park and Jeremy Bulloch were great in their roles. Ray Park especially give a physicality and presence to Darth Maul. Had his character lived and been a recurring role in the PT, it would have been interesting to see what could have been.
In the OT, it seemed to be that May the Force be with you, meant believe in yourself. In that way it resonated with viewers. I understand that the midichlorians were there to explain why the Jedi were able to use and tap into the Force, but why did that even need an explanation?
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Zombie_61
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Midichlorians were nothing more than a plot device, a way for Lucas to show Qui-Gon Jinn had some form of quantifiable physical evidence as proof to convince the Jedi Council that Anakin had the potential to become a powerful Jedi. Considering the Council's reaction to his "discovery" and the way they grudgingly assigned Anakin as Obi-Wan's Padawan only after Qui-Gon's death, it is ultimately a fairly useless plot device, especially since the Jedi Masters on the Council should have been able to sense Anakin's strength in The Force the same way Qui-Gon did.
Midichlorians were nothing more than a plot device, a way for Lucas to show Qui-Gon Jinn had some form of quantifiable physical evidence as proof to convince the Jedi Council that Anakin had the potential to become a powerful Jedi. Considering the Council's reaction to his "discovery" and the way they grudgingly assigned Anakin as Obi-Wan's Padawan only after Qui-Gon's death, it is ultimately a fairly useless plot device, especially since the Jedi Masters on the Council should have been able to sense Anakin's strength in The Force the same way Qui-Gon did.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
That and the fact that the Council could have just conducted their own blood test to confirm it too. From a story telling standpoint it's a really lame way to explain a prophecy. Here you have a council made of high ranking wizards who use magic to fight evil, and they determine that the fulfillment of one of their prophecies is a slave child? Sounds cool.
How do they figure out that this child is such a fulfillment? Well one of the members of their order (who for some reason isn't allowed on the council) did a blood test to determine it. Whoopty freakin do!
That and the fact that the Council could have just conducted their own blood test to confirm it too. From a story telling standpoint it's a really lame way to explain a prophecy. Here you have a council made of high ranking wizards who use magic to fight evil, and they determine that the fulfillment of one of their prophecies is a slave child? Sounds cool.
How do they figure out that this child is such a fulfillment? Well one of the members of their order (who for some reason isn't allowed on the council) did a blood test to determine it. Whoopty freakin do!
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Lance Armstrong just admitted to injecting Mace Windu with midichlorian enhancing drugs.
Lance Armstrong just admitted to injecting Mace Windu with midichlorian enhancing drugs.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
Edwardowan
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
very very good point... now I hate the phantom menace that much more!
very very good point... now I hate the phantom menace that much more!
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