Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[batguy]

People don't go on rants about the way boys/men are under-served in Disney fairy tales that are aimed at young girls. It could be argued that SW was originally that sort of thing but aimed at boys for a change.


I'm in favor of SW being more balanced in the future. But I don't think SW inherently owes the world that just because it exists and it's popular. Not unless we start putting Disney's feet to the fire about its girl-aimed fairy tales too.

I don't think the 35yo Star Wars stuff should be criticized about it. Go ahead and point out the issue, yeah, but don't blame it for being what it is.

At that same time 35 years ago "The Dukes of Hazzard" had a huge rebel flag on the car. But I don't think it should be called a racist show today. These things are products of their time.


SW will diversify on its own in the coming years because they want a wider audience.

 

[Bryancd]

Count me into that too. The underrepresentation of women in Hollywood has been bugging me for years. And star wars is one of the worst offenders.

Yet all of these claims are baseless regarding these upcoming films and media from the new LucasFilm. I expect a full Mia culpa on Dec. 18, until then you and Jeyl are simply trolling trying to pick a fight that doesn't exist in the context of TFA. He literally used the teaser poster as supposed evidence of his none sense. Be careful who you ally with.

 

[GlazyUK]

This is what Han looks like to me !!! Quite possibly the crankiest ex-smuggler ever !!

 

[glunark]

Lighten up, Francis.

I do like a stripes reference.

 

[astroboy]

Yet all of these claims are baseless regarding these upcoming films and media from the new LucasFilm. I expect a full Mia culpa on Dec. 18, until then you and Jeyl are simply trolling trying to pick a fight that doesn't exist in the context of TFA. He literally used the teaser poster as supposed evidence of his none sense. Be careful who you ally with.

Well, I'm certainly not trolling and I'm not trying to pick a fight.

I always loved how the avclub described itself as a place where people "sit a bit too close"

Lord knows that if that defined any website, it's this one.

So to me, talking about feminism in star wars is no different than talking about the ewoks, the special editions or midichlorians. We all have our opinions on this stuff.

But I do find it alarming when folks get annoyed when we even bring that stuff up. It's part of the same conversation imho.

And as far as being aligned with anyone, I really haven't been around long enough to pick up ANY of the personalities across this board.

Yet all of these claims are baseless regarding these upcoming films and media from the new LucasFilm. I expect a full Mia culpa on Dec. 18, until then you and Jeyl are simply trolling trying to pick a fight that doesn't exist in the context of TFA. He literally used the teaser poster as supposed evidence of his none sense. Be careful who you ally with.

 

[Bryancd]

Well, I'm certainly not trolling and I'm not trying to pick a fight.

I always loved how the avclub described itself as a place where people "sit a bit too close"

Lord knows that if that defined any website, it's this one.

So to me, talking about feminism in star wars is no different than talking about the ewoks, the special editions or midichlorians. We all have our opinions on this stuff.

But I do find it alarming when folks get annoyed when we even bring that stuff up. It's part of the same conversation imho.

And as far as being aligned with anyone, I really haven't been around long enough to pick up ANY of the personalities across this board.

Which is why it's worth noting that Jeyl will attempt to interject this argument constantly regardless if it has any merit. That's trolling an agenda.

 

[astroboy]

Which is why it's worth noting that Jeyl will attempt to interject this argument constantly regardless if it has any merit. That's trolling an agenda.

As I said, I haven't followed along to see anyone's personality. I use Tapatalk so I never even see avatars

 

[Jeyl]

That's trolling an agenda.

Either ignore my posts, ignore me as a user or stand by those words and report me as a troll. The only thing that will prove my views have no merit is the finished film which has not been released yet. Who is to say that JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy won't choose to cut a majority of Rey's scenes out of the movie before it's finally released? It wouldn't be the first time he's drastically cut major characters out of his own movies.

 

[Bryancd]

Either ignore my posts, ignore me as a user or stand by those words and report me as a troll. The only thing that will prove my views have no merit is the finished film which has not been released yet. Who is to say that JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy won't choose to cut a majority of Rey's scenes out of the movie before it's finally released? It wouldn't be the first time he's drastically cut major characters out of his own movies.

You kidding? I have far too much fun pointing out your errors and I am so excited to watch you eat crow on Dec. 18th. Challenging people so astoundingly clueless is really fun! So now your contention is that her role is being left in the cutting room floor? LOL! You are a troll, many others have said so much. The level of dislike for some of your posts is impressive.

 

[astroboy]

I highly doubt that her role will be reduced on the cutting room floor.

But thinking about both Leia and amidala. ....their roles really weakened as both of their respective series went on....from strong leader to love interest who is there to support the male lead


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[Jaitea]

I have to disagree about Leia,.....she was in the middle of the action in all of the films even in Jedi

J

 

[astroboy]

I have to disagree about Leia,.....she was in the middle of the action in all of the films even in Jedi

J

Especially while in a bikini.

Although you are right about the action scenes, by the end of the film she felt more like a prop for han's ego.

Compare that to her role in ANH. she was a powerful instrument of a terrorist cell (which makes her my favorite Disney princess)

Keep in mind, I'm not a big jedi fan.

The bechdel test really opened the door on this discussion for me



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[jcoffman99]

ANH saves the farm boy and pirate on the Death Star. She's the only one that thinks of a plan. High member of the resistance. Delivers the Death Star plans

ESB risks her life to warn Luke it's a trap. Connects with Luke via the force to save him...again

ROTJ risks her life to save Han. Takes a shot to the arm, and then again saves Han.

Entire trilogy she's constantly putting herself in harms way to save others. Both friends and millions of people she doesn't even know.

Seems pretty strong to me.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

^ And also, at the end of all that, she grabbed Han and kissed him, not vice versa. As in Jabba's palace, earlier. I've seen it argued over the years that that's a good representation of women taking possession of their own sexuality. Which, in 1983, was still very much a big thing. Hell, that was right around the time the ERA had failed in Congress and women were finally allowed to have credit in their own names, and not their husbands'.

As for the new film/trilogy...? We already have a much stronger female presence, even in this first new film, than even ROTJ (I don't look to the Prequels for strong female presence). So Rey doesn't have a lightsaber in the new poster. 1) She's not a Jedi. 2) That staff weapon is not a whacking stick -- if you look closer, it's definitely got a shooty element. And she's probably more comfortable with it, having gotten good at using it to keep herself alive and intact on Jakku for who knows how long. I never have a problem with anyone of any gender or skin color or whatever using whatever weapon they feel most comfortable with. If she has an opportunity to "learn about the ways of the Force", it fits that she initially resists. "The Call Refused" is the second part of the Hero's Journey, and -- unlike the prior six films, this woman is the main character and Hero in these new films. I highly, highly doubt they're going to hamstring her into pointlessness.

--Jonah

 

[Jeyl]

Uh, wow. I mean, I really have nothing to argue against anything you guys have said. Well, maybe a bit to jcoffman99 for giving Leia a bit too much credit. Anyone who is that awesome should have gone with Luke to confront Vader and the Emperor. But seriously, at this point I wasn't expecting an honest discussion about this issue when I'm generally looked down on as pushing my own agenda. You've made some great points and you've done it without all the heaping doses of condescension or name calling. It honestly makes me feel better about this whole thing. What else are you excited for?

 

[Zombie_61]

I do like a stripes reference.

Uhh, I just wish I hadn't drunk all that cough syrup this morning?

 

[batguy]

I always thought a defining moment for Leia was choking Jabba on the sail barge. He was the most feared gangster in the galaxy. He tried to make a slave out of Leia and she promptly killed him with her own chains.

The existing SW movies do suffer from a shortage of female characters. But I don't think they were short on respect for the female characters they did have.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

The existing SW movies do suffer from a shortage of female characters. But I don't think they were short on respect for the female characters they did have.

I wish I could agree. It was nice seeing women get more of a role after the first film, such as having a woman as fire-control for the ion cannon on Hoth and, of course, Mon Mothma being the overall head of the Alliance... But they dropped the ball in ROTJ and the Prequels hard with stuff that we know was filmed, but then cut. All the female fighter pilots at the Battle of Endor, gone. And for the most idiotic reason -- fear that the audience would be too upset by seeing women die in combat. TPM was okay for female presence, what with all the Queen and her Handmaidens stuff. But by AOTC... Almost all of Beru's scenes were cut, however mundane they might have been. Although they did put ILM staffer Amy Allen in makeup and prosthetics and add her in post-production as Aayla Secura, after the character proved popular in the comic where she was introduced. And that's in addition to Luminara Unduli and Bariss Offee -- two of my favorite Jedi ever. Then in ROTS, they cut the introduction of a younger Mon Mothma and all the discussion of rebellion against Palpatine.

As for Leia going with Luke to confront Vader... No. Just... no. She wasn't trained in the Force. She'd be a pawn used to sway Luke. Or, worse, she'd succumb to Palpatine's mental manipulations and attack Luke. Here's the thing. The OT was focused on Luke. He's the Hero, on his Journey. All the other characters are there to support or hinder that. It wasn't ever about Leia. Similarly, the Prequels were supposed to be about Obi-Wan before Rick convinced George the entire six-film series was about Anakin. Now, all we have are rumors so far -- however legit they may appear or claim to be. After I walk out of my first viewing of TFA, I'll be able to tell you whether the new trilogy is about Finn or Rey... but at this point, I'm swaying toward it being Rey, with Finn a strong supporting character, like Han or Leia in the OT. How well they manage that, we just don't know yet.

--Jonah

 

[jcoffman99]

Uh, wow. I mean, I really have nothing to argue against anything you guys have said. Well, maybe a bit to jcoffman99 for giving Leia a bit too much credit. Anyone who is that awesome should have gone with Luke to confront Vader and the Emperor. But seriously, at this point I wasn't expecting an honest discussion about this issue when I'm generally looked down on as pushing my own agenda. You've made some great points and you've done it without all the heaping doses of condescension or name calling. It honestly makes me feel better about this whole thing. What else are you excited for?

Leia hadn't had the training Luke had. She was raised to function as a covert military official. Had she met Ben her path could have been different. If we believe what we're told about the Force, it had a different destiny for her.

If if you're not expecting an honest discussion, maybe just don't bring it up anymore. I think that would be a win/win for all of us.

 

[Riceball]

As for Leia going with Luke to confront Vader... No. Just... no. She wasn't trained in the Force. She'd be a pawn used to sway Luke. Or, worse, she'd succumb to Palpatine's mental manipulations and attack Luke. Here's the thing. The OT was focused on Luke. He's the Hero, on his Journey. All the other characters are there to support or hinder that. It wasn't ever about Leia. Similarly, the Prequels were supposed to be about Obi-Wan before Rick convinced George the entire six-film series was about Anakin. Now, all we have are rumors so far -- however legit they may appear or claim to be. After I walk out of my first viewing of TFA, I'll be able to tell you whether the new trilogy is about Finn or Rey... but at this point, I'm swaying toward it being Rey, with Finn a strong supporting character, like Han or Leia in the OT. How well they manage that, we just don't know yet.

--Jonah

I think that's the strongest argument to be made about Leia's role in the OT, the movies were never about her, no about Han, Vader, or Obi-Wan, they were about Luke and his journey and everybody else was there to support him story telling wise. As many others have pointed out, the story of the OT was the classic hero's journey, much like classic mythology, and in this story the hero was Luke so why would expect Leia to feature much more prominently than she did, possibly stealing the spotlight from the hero? There's a reason these kind of stories are called hero's journey or the hero's quest and not the sidekick or supporting character's journey.