Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Krull]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

En.....I don't think killing off ANYBODY in SW is gonna go over well with fans,if you think Lucas (who created this for gawd's sake) got hate of the purist variety over the first three parts of the series just think of what one would get for killing off a major character? gads I'd have to leave the forum to keep my head from exploding!

I think the idea of Luke vanishing is good,if you think of it the Jedi are actually kinda responsible for the mess that the galaxy went through and maybe he wants to go think over their position in the collective whole rather then just throwing them back in to the mix.

Brings the possibility of seeing the Jedi homeworld to light,or even the Sith homeworld.

I STILL say that if they want to do something interesting they should bring about a race of people who are force users but practice a balance of light and dark side i.e. use anger in battle to overwhelm an opponent,and use weapons besides light sabers proficiently like blasters,rockets whatever.

And if the Sith come back (and they will since they are the main bad guys) I'd like to see more of an army of them,no more of that "two only" nonsense.

 

[Robiwon]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I've never read any of the books, or played any of the games, etc. In my eye, the whole Star Wars universe exists on the silver screen.

Am I a bad person for this?

 

[Probe Droid]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I've never read any of the books, or played any of the games, etc. In my eye, the whole Star Wars universe exists on the silver screen.

Am I a bad person for this?

Same here. Back when SW was new, I read Splinter in the Mind's Eye, but that's the only EU title I've ever gotten all the way through. Tried a few others but no dice. Too juvenile. The six movies/animated Clone Wars is all I need.

 

[drcraig13]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I've never read any of the books, or played any of the games, etc. In my eye, the whole Star Wars universe exists on the silver screen.

Am I a bad person for this?

Yes you go to the box for two minutes and you feel shame.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I wouldn't mind seeing an old character getting killed off for the sake of revitalizing the efforts of the good. That's a theme that ALWAYS hits home with me.

Well, see, that's my point. There's nothing inherently wrong with killing a character if the character's death has meaning to it within the narrative AND for the audience. The problem is that, all too often, character deaths don't have meaning within the narrative, or have no meaning for the audience.

For example, if you kill a character to "show the audience that anyone can die," to me, that's just manipulating the audience. What's more, it's not exactly innovative anymore. The notion of "hero shields" -- and the subversion of that notion -- was novel back in, oh, the late 80s. Up through the 90s, it made sense to employ the "main character death" as a means of shocking the audience and heightening tension. But it's become played out. It's not innovative, it's not challenging. It's just messing with the audience to mess with the audience.

Other deaths can have an impact on the other characters, and/or can help move the plot forward, or can complete a character's story arc. Those are, in my opinion, better character deaths. They can come from left field, but they can't JUST be there to screw with the audience. These kinds of deaths, however, need to be very carefully handled and usually require a lot more effort to pull off effectively.

So, for example, Obi-Wan's death in the first Star Wars film works. It both moves the plot forward (Obi-Wan draws the stormtroopers and Vaders' attention away from the gang getting on board the Falcon), and spurs Luke to action, leading him to become more self-reliant, to hone his force-using abilities, and to pursue his training on Dagobah with Yoda. Plus, the impact on Luke is felt keenly because the audience has spent time seeing Luke grow close with Obi-Wan. the relationship has been established, and you understand it.

Similar story for Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. Their deaths spur Luke to leave home and follow Obi-Wan, and we know they have meaning for him because we've seen his relationship with them and understand that it's a familial relationship. We also know that their place in Luke's life is drawing to a close, even before they die, because Luke wants desperately to leave home, and his uncle is standing in the way of that. Again, a good death, in terms of storytelling.

A BAD death, however, would be Wash's death in Serenity. Joss Whedon is on record as saying that he killed Wash when he did, the way he did, so that you'd think he'd kill the whole crew. To me, that's just pointless screwing with the audience. It was cute and inventive at one point in time, but now it's part of Whedon's predictable schtick. It's old hat. And, it's never really dealt with within the film. It's part of the meta-narrative -- the interaction between filmmaker and audience -- rather than the narrative itself. Wash's death has no real impact on the crew, beyond a 30 second funeral sequence where he's laid to rest next to a guy we've seen for all of maybe 10 minutes total (Mr. Universe). Now, it may be that his death would have had more meaning moving forward, and we'd have seen its impact on Zoey and the rest of the crew, had the story continued. Certainl Whedon's done that kind of thing in the past (e.g., Buffy's mom). But we never got those extra stories, so all we have is Serenity itself, and thus, Wash's death ends up being an exercise in screwing with the audience, rather than some meaningful part of the story.


Now, the problem with killing off one of the original trilogy heroes is that it would -- more than likely -- just be screwing with the audience. It'd be done to shock the audience and prove how "gritty" and "real" the new films are. It wouldn't, however, be done in service to the story itself. Or at least, if it were, it'd require a fair bit of work on the writers' part. If, for example, Leia died, her death would need to be set up so that it had a real impact on the characters and/or plot. That means the characters would need to know her, either personally, or be aware of her as a public figure. Her death would need to serve some larger purpose in the story, and that would only make sense if her death has real meaning to the characters and within the story. That could be done...but I tend to think that "Let's kill a major character" is often done just for shock value or to prove how "gritty" the franchise is.

I tend to think if you have to resort to tricks like that, your story is weak.

 

[niennumb1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I've never read any of the books, or played any of the games, etc. In my eye, the whole Star Wars universe exists on the silver screen.

Am I a bad person for this?

Nope! That's my feeling as well.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I've read 90% of the book based EU and have no problem saying goodbye. It was hit or miss but mostly fun. I am ambivalent about anyone dying. If they did, Chewiw would be the best candidate as he really doesn't advance any story as he doesn't speak.

 

[robn1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

...The only purpose for doing it, therefore, would be to **** with the audience. And frankly, that kind of ham-handed gimmickry is cheap and amateurish...

JJ is at the helm, cheap amateurish gimmickry is his thing.

 

[Robiwon]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Same here. Back when SW was new, I read Splinter in the Mind's Eye, but that's the only EU title I've ever gotten all the way through. Tried a few others but no dice. Too juvenile. The six movies/animated Clone Wars is all I need.

Ah, I read Splinter as well when it came out. Other than that, no EU for me. I couldn't even get into the Clone Wars cartoon. I just didn't like the animation. I watched a few episodes and that was it. I have no issue with them killing off a character, if that is what happens in the new movies. Eventually, everyone dies...

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I've never read any of the books, or played any of the games, etc. In my eye, the whole Star Wars universe exists on the silver screen.

Am I a bad person for this?

Not in my book you're not. I've read some of the EU novels ("Splinter of the Mind's Eye" was one of them); liked some, didn't like others. I've played a few of the video games and had fun, but didn't take them too seriously. And I've seen all of the first Clone Wars series and most of the second, but I put them in the same category as the video games--enjoyable, but that's about it. For me, only the movies are canon; everything else is just various levels of Star-Wars-like entertainment.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

So pretty much the only Star Wars canon thing that anybody really cares about is the one that goes "This is Anakin Skywalker. You're going to like him and regard him as a hero even if he does murder hundreds, if not thousands of innocent men, women and children". See, I'm the kind of viewer who wants to like our heroes.

The movies don't even know how to properly portray their own rules. The prequels go out of their way to show how attachment and loss can turn you into the most evil thing imaginable to the point where everything involving a strong emotional response should be expelled from a Jedi at a very early age. Yoda will take this a step further by saying that it's better to allow a person to die and not mourn their death than to do anything that could save their life. The hero of the entire saga, Anakin, is told that and by not doing it, turns evil. The film never makes a point in showing how Anakin could have done things in a different way or show how Yoda and Obi-Wan were misguided into believing that following these rules to their absolute form did more harm than good. Anakin turned evil because of love. If only he had ditched Padme off to the side and leave her with his unborn children, everything would have been ok.

Than we have ROTJ, where attachment and fear of losing someone close to you is what turns Anakin back to the good side... Isn't that the reason he turned bad in the first place? This series just broke it's own rules and never bothers to explain why. It's like the Baku situation in Star Trek Insurrection. We cannot have our heroes ask the Baku if they could leave their planet so it's special healing properties could be used to END A WAR. If the Baku said yes, we would not have a movie, and if they said no, they would come off as the biggest arrogant a-holes in the galaxy. Since the movie has to be about saving them, the story has to be inherently stupid. That's Anakin's redemption. The idea that attachment and fear of loss isn't as black and white as Yoda and Obi-Wan were lead to believe is never discussed or even mentioned. Let's just have Anakin appear as his younger self in ghost form beside ghost Yoda and ghost Obi-Wan so we can say he's back to the way he was even though that's not even close to what actually happened.

This is why I like the Expanded Universe. Sometimes it will have writers who will feature characters that treat this whole "Light side/Dark side" business as a bunch of nonsense and the movies are much better off with them as part of the canon than without. Otherwise, you might as well say that love via attachment really was the problem and that we're fortunate that Anakin died soon after tossing the emperor off the catwalk or else he would have continued to murder everyone in his path.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I have never considered Anakin the hero of the Saga. It's his story in it's entirety but clearly the hero is Luke.

 

[cboath]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

That's the thing though, it's NOT portrayed as his (anakin's) story in 4-6, it's clearly portrayed as Luke's story there. We see a very little of what's happened to anakin/vader over the OT, but not a lot.

We flat out do not follow him at all in the OT. He's there as the protagonists villain, period.

15 years later, the story is, uh, 're-imagined' with 3 new prequels as the whole thing being 'anakin's story' and that that was the original plan. I don't buy that, personally. In the end, you have to look at your finished product (even if you still tweak it). The finished product that everyone loved was Luke's story. Trying to twist it to someone elses after the fact just doesn't work.

I think in the end, the Prequels will be Anakin's story, the OT will be luke/leia's, and the ST will be the story of their kids. The story of their family will be the 1-9 arc. Story's overlap, I supposed and the tail end of anakin comes out in the OT, and the tail end of luke/leia likely comes out in the ST.

 

[Krull]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

looooooong post

Sorry to cut your post Jeyl but you drive me nuts sometimes.

Anyway the reason I quoted you is you bring an interesting point up:am I the only one who never really liked the Jedi? even back as a kid with the first three films I always liked Vader,Fett,and the stormtroopers more.
I remember reading the Marvel comics and always found myself thinking how neat it would be to join the Empire and be a stormtrooper! or to join the bounty hunters and get a suit of armor like Boba! and Vader was cool,it pissed me off when they killed him in ROTJ :angry only guy I found creepy was the Emperor,he was the weird old SOB nobody in their right mind would go close to :lol

My opinion of the Jedi didn't change much when they finally made the story of the beginning about the only Jedi I gave a flip for was Qui Gon and Obi Wan,to me the Jedi order was a bunch of pompous idiots who were only good at sowing their own doom-even in the first three films I had about as much use for Yoda as one has for a loose Rancor who's hungry.
But I loved the clone troopers and the Mandalors,and once again I was pissed when they killed Fett's dad,granted I also hated how they portrayed young Boba thought he was an annoying little blob! :lol

So in the end while I'm ready for Luke to come back that's why I want troopers of some sort and would like an Empiral force of some sort! they're who I always liked and followed in SW.

Hell if they wound up as the New Republic army after their defeat that'd suit me just fine.

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yoda will take this a step further by saying that it's better to allow a person to die and not mourn their death than to do anything that could save their life.

That is not what he was saying. He didn't want attachment to lead to rash actions, he wasn't advocating NO actions.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, Harrison Ford did an AMA on Reddit today and he posted a very interesting pic...


Could the chair next to him belong to Carrie Fisher?

- - - Updated - - -

...actually, the chair next to Ford probably says "CAST." The text is a little more centered suggesting that it's a shorter word.

 

[Jaitea]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

He's looking great, beard looks cool.....hope this is the look for Ep 7

The CA on the chair....they are leaving bits in the photos to drive us NUTS!....well spotted JD

J

 

[Lutso]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The background in that photo looks like it could easily be in the UK too...

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

View attachment 311468

"Who's scruffy lookin'?"

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Someone asked him who shot first, he said "I don't and I don't care." LOL!