Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
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JD
Master Member
That's the reaction I expected. :facepalm
You can harp on one aspect of a comment, rather that substance behind it all. But, through all that, you do bring up a point, as indirect as it might be. ....and maybe that's why I don't see Transformers, TMNT and those that you named... and you sure don't have to be a "hipster" at all to not like those. I see plenty of "manufactured" movies by that I'm pre-destined to like (the Marvel flicks come to mind). No one says they're bad movies. I like my big, over the top popcorn movies - but, I've always thought of Star Wars, while it is one of those films that started this type of blockbuster, was above the tripe that is Transformers, TMNT and all those types of flicks.
The point is, this Star Wars film is arguably different from the OT (and even the PT) in the way it's been written and made. There's nothing wrong with a little artistic integrity or being original - and there's nothing wrong with feeding the sheep what they want, too.
You can harp on one aspect of a comment, rather that substance behind it all. But, through all that, you do bring up a point, as indirect as it might be. ....and maybe that's why I don't see Transformers, TMNT and those that you named... and you sure don't have to be a "hipster" at all to not like those. I see plenty of "manufactured" movies by that I'm pre-destined to like (the Marvel flicks come to mind). No one says they're bad movies. I like my big, over the top popcorn movies - but, I've always thought of Star Wars, while it is one of those films that started this type of blockbuster, was above the tripe that is Transformers, TMNT and all those types of flicks.
The point is, this Star Wars film is arguably different from the OT (and even the PT) in the way it's been written and made. There's nothing wrong with a little artistic integrity or being original - and there's nothing wrong with feeding the sheep what they want, too.
Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome
You and I must have a beer some day...
As to TFA, I left the theater feeling underwhelmed. A few of my complaints:
• The score. I seriously didn't remember ANYthing about the score. I asked a friend, "Hey, do you remember if they were playing subtle background music during the entire movie as with the OT, or if the music just kicked in from time to time?" He couldn't remember either. I think the lack of a memorable score hurt the film.
• Action scenes that delay the story. I started yawning during the Rey/Finn falcon flight scene on Jakkuu. I knew they'd make it. I just wanted them to get off the planet so that we could get more of the story in place and figure out what the heck's been happening during the last 30 years.
• Lack of exposition. I know too much exposition is bad for a movie, but this movie felt like a highlight reel of a 6-hour movie. For example, the political climate of the galaxy wasn't just vague—it was nigh indecipherable. I understand that the visual dictionary and other sources fill in some of the gaps, but I purposely didn't read any of that before the movie, and trying to make sense of a jumble of half-stated facts didn't improve my viewing experience. The movies should stand alone, with new-EU material enriching our understanding of a universe that we already understand to a minimum degree. The new-EU material should not have to be absolutely referenced to take us from "This makes no sense at all" to "Oh...ok, well I guess that explains it a bit..."
• Sense of scale. This was seriously lacking. The final battle involved a few fighters and was won way too easily.
• Lack of originality. Too many similarities to ANH, and seriously, Death Star 3? C'mon. It's like the next Superman movie going back to Lex Luthor as the villain for the umpteenth time. Oh wait...
Things I liked:
• Rey, and her later interaction with Kylo. Their lightsaber battle was the best of the series to me.
• Harrison Ford. I was worried I'd see him on screen as older Harrison Ford and not as Han, but I think he did a solid job.
• Chewie. As others said, he had some great moments.
• Humor. Some great one-liners. Took me back to ESB.
All in all, I enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy better than TFA. That said, it was still an unforgettable moment to be sitting in a theater watching the Star Wars story advance past ROTJ for the first time in 30 years. I think JJ's efforts were sincere, and coming from a real fan. I don't agree with all of his choices, but I can accept them.
You and I must have a beer some day...
As to TFA, I left the theater feeling underwhelmed. A few of my complaints:
• The score. I seriously didn't remember ANYthing about the score. I asked a friend, "Hey, do you remember if they were playing subtle background music during the entire movie as with the OT, or if the music just kicked in from time to time?" He couldn't remember either. I think the lack of a memorable score hurt the film.
• Action scenes that delay the story. I started yawning during the Rey/Finn falcon flight scene on Jakkuu. I knew they'd make it. I just wanted them to get off the planet so that we could get more of the story in place and figure out what the heck's been happening during the last 30 years.
• Lack of exposition. I know too much exposition is bad for a movie, but this movie felt like a highlight reel of a 6-hour movie. For example, the political climate of the galaxy wasn't just vague—it was nigh indecipherable. I understand that the visual dictionary and other sources fill in some of the gaps, but I purposely didn't read any of that before the movie, and trying to make sense of a jumble of half-stated facts didn't improve my viewing experience. The movies should stand alone, with new-EU material enriching our understanding of a universe that we already understand to a minimum degree. The new-EU material should not have to be absolutely referenced to take us from "This makes no sense at all" to "Oh...ok, well I guess that explains it a bit..."
• Sense of scale. This was seriously lacking. The final battle involved a few fighters and was won way too easily.
• Lack of originality. Too many similarities to ANH, and seriously, Death Star 3? C'mon. It's like the next Superman movie going back to Lex Luthor as the villain for the umpteenth time. Oh wait...
Things I liked:
• Rey, and her later interaction with Kylo. Their lightsaber battle was the best of the series to me.
• Harrison Ford. I was worried I'd see him on screen as older Harrison Ford and not as Han, but I think he did a solid job.
• Chewie. As others said, he had some great moments.
• Humor. Some great one-liners. Took me back to ESB.
All in all, I enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy better than TFA. That said, it was still an unforgettable moment to be sitting in a theater watching the Star Wars story advance past ROTJ for the first time in 30 years. I think JJ's efforts were sincere, and coming from a real fan. I don't agree with all of his choices, but I can accept them.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
The guy who made "Ghost Shark 2" has done some critical thinking on TFA:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/28/star-wars-storytelling-and-fixing-it-in-post
Teehee
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/28/star-wars-storytelling-and-fixing-it-in-post
Teehee
joshvanrad
Master Member
I think there are artistic, original things in TFA. For example, Kasdan and JJ wrote a villain that is different than anything we've seen in any other SW. Which is why I find it funny that there are people out there that will criticize the movie for not being original enough, then turn around and hammer on Kylo for not being the same villain archetype we've seen before.
glunark
Sr Member
The guy who made "Ghost Shark 2" has done some critical thinking on TFA:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/28/star-wars-storytelling-and-fixing-it-in-post
Teehee
Did he direct Ghost shark 2? You would think he would mention that.
JD
Master Member
It's not necessarily a bad article - what makes it bad are the constant references to Ghost Shark 2. He makes some great points that are often overlooked.The guy who made "Ghost Shark 2" has done some critical thinking on TFA:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/28/star-wars-storytelling-and-fixing-it-in-post
Teehee
He summed it up nicely: "But you know what? I’ve seen The Force Awakens twice already, and I’m planning to see it again. I know I’ll be a happy person for at least those two hours, going on a brisk adventure with a bunch of fictitious friends. That probably came out sounding bleaker than it was intended to, but the point remains: the movie gets by. I still feel the story tugging awkwardly at itself, but the cast and the sense of fun ultimately win me over. And I’m at peace, knowing that titans like JJ Abrams still make the same storytelling blunders everyone else does."
But, I'm still not going to see Ghost Shark 2.
JD
Master Member
Hmmm.
I agree and disagree to certain extents. Kylo is different in a way as it seems that he wants to be on the dark side, whereas Anakin/Vader was "seduced." And seduced means he kinda fell into to try and save Padme - along with his anger issues. Kylo Ren worships Vader and wants to be Vader. He shows different aspects of different characters throughout the previous movies - I see lots of Anakin (his temper tantrums are what we needed to see Anakin like in the PT) and lots of Luke.
Yes, once you get past the whole black villain with a red lightsaber with Daddy issues being manipulated by someone mysterious - there is definitely a difference to Ben Solo than to others... parts of him are almost completely opposite of Anakin Vader.
Anyway you look at it, you've made a great point.
crabra comander
Master Member
I agree the score was a bit underwhelming.
Why thing that really gets my goat, how did Poe escape Jakku? You know what, doesn't matter, Poe probably found some random spaceship, or fixed Reys quad jet and flew away... :rolleyes
Anakins fall to the dark side felt mishandled. Like a lot of people have said, probably should've just started with Anakin hunting Jedi
Why thing that really gets my goat, how did Poe escape Jakku? You know what, doesn't matter, Poe probably found some random spaceship, or fixed Reys quad jet and flew away... :rolleyes
Anakins fall to the dark side felt mishandled. Like a lot of people have said, probably should've just started with Anakin hunting Jedi
Kristen, if you fail to find any merit in the common criticisms leveled at the film you lack critical thinking and/or are a sheep, get with the program.
astroboy
Master Member
I think that for me, ANH is the fairy tale. That's the hero quest. It ends with "and they all loved happily ever after".
And everything else is after that. That's the brilliance of Empire. There wasn't a plot in anyway. No macguffin. No real conflict. The entire film is a character arc. And the plot flows out of that a arc.
Every follow up to ANH should be about exploring different types of stories and different character arcs.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
And everything else is after that. That's the brilliance of Empire. There wasn't a plot in anyway. No macguffin. No real conflict. The entire film is a character arc. And the plot flows out of that a arc.
Every follow up to ANH should be about exploring different types of stories and different character arcs.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
kristen jones
Master Member
LA TIMES reports:
"Admit it: 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' stinks -- and here's why"
http://www.latimes.com/business/hil...the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html
"Admit it: 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' stinks -- and here's why"
http://www.latimes.com/business/hil...the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html
Stormy320
Sr Member
Hater
No one will be watching the movies he likes in 30 years.
Guys - my wife has seen it twice and says she will go again. She had never seen a Star Wars film. It's a great move / piece of art.
Yea - it's all corporate manipulation marketing hype and the LA times moron is right - film sucks.
This is just stupid. There is a segment of our population that is never happy even when they get what they want. A vocal obnoxious minority.
No one will be watching the movies he likes in 30 years.
Guys - my wife has seen it twice and says she will go again. She had never seen a Star Wars film. It's a great move / piece of art.
Yea - it's all corporate manipulation marketing hype and the LA times moron is right - film sucks.
This is just stupid. There is a segment of our population that is never happy even when they get what they want. A vocal obnoxious minority.
Vacformedhero
Sr Member
That was mentioned in the Haynes manual , it mentions the circular rectenna Is a military spec system
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars TFA. Warning spoilers and I hate it!!! Haters and Lovers Welcome
I think part of the issue is that some of the character themes are very, very similar to the old themes. So, to the extent they play in the background at all, you don't really notice them because they're already hard-wired into your brain as "You know, Star Wars music."
But, to be honest, I think there are two other factors at work: (1) whether you liked the film itself, and (2) the element of repetition.
With the OT, we've had 30 years to listen to the soundtrack and rewatch the films, and remember the moments where this bit of music coincides with that bit of film.
I don't know about you, but I have almost no idea what bits of music go with which parts of film for the PT, mostly because I haven't rewatched the scenes at all. The only ones I do know are the musical cues that featured in various video games, and a few of the REALLY memorable sequences like Duel of the Fates. But honestly, most of that I only remember because I've heard the music elsewhere and can kind of recall where it shows up in the films.
With this film, I've seen it...once. I don't remember the music because I've only seen it once and was too busy processing everything together. So, I don't really expect the moments in the film to remind me of, say, the Hoth battle and the music that plays during that, or the Cantina scene music.
I can sort of see this. The film seems faster-paced than the previous films, but I think it's intended to be. Still, there's a sense that the film lacks enough moments to breathe. That, however, seems to be a staple of JJ's style. I felt much the same way when watching his Trek films. Lots of action, but not a lot of stuff I can distinctly remember. We may see something different in the next film.
Honestly, I don't see this as a problem. I'm curious about what the hell is going on in the galaxy and such, but I get enough of the film to follow it. So, in that sense, it stands on its own. It's not that different from ANH, really. Again, I think we forget about how 30 years of backstory in myriad forms has influenced our views of the OT. Star Wars -- just on its own in 1977 form, without anything else having been done -- is nearly identical in terms of how little you know of the galaxy. I mean, the Senate is formally disbanded in ANH, but it's like "Wait, what Senate? Who the hell is the Emperor? I thought Vader was the bad guy. I thought we had an Empire, not a Republic." The backstory for the galaxy is equally thin in that film, and, really, for the entire OT.
It was only West End Games and the EU folks who really fleshed out the rest of the universe, based largely on George's notes and their own making-stuff-up. I have no doubt that the Story Group knows the answers to the questions likely raised by the new film, but the new film isn't really "about" answering those questions. That's what the New-EU material will be for.
Again, to be fair, we see, what, 10 X-wings and maybe 6 Y-wings at Yavin? It's pretty much the same thing in this film. I mean, if you wanted more because it's a new film and we can do more with CGI and stuff, yeah, I get that, but I think it could also end up being way too "busy" a visual display, in an already VERY busy film.
This one I agree with. Up to a point. I mean, I would prefer a wholly original film with no "callbacks," too. But, on the other hand, I kinda question how "Star Warsy" that film would've been, ya know? Would it have felt like "Star Wars" or just like "generic scifi movie"? I think it's likely the latter. But now that the bridge has been built between the OT and this new sequel trilogy (ST), I think the remaining ST films will be more able to develop in new ways, rather than just treading over the same old ground. There will always be common themes in these films, but that's largely due to "hero's journey" mechanics for this type of story. And, again, there's gonna be a TON of new "EU" material to take things in other directions.
I understand your perspective, but I guess I'd say "Hang in there. Things will improve."
For me, especially after the PT and what I heard about KOTCS for the Indy series, and all the various reboots, remakes, etc., one thing has become abundantly clear to me as I approach middle age:
You can't go home again.
You can, however, build a new home, and that's what I think this film ultimately does.
I think part of the issue is that some of the character themes are very, very similar to the old themes. So, to the extent they play in the background at all, you don't really notice them because they're already hard-wired into your brain as "You know, Star Wars music."
But, to be honest, I think there are two other factors at work: (1) whether you liked the film itself, and (2) the element of repetition.
With the OT, we've had 30 years to listen to the soundtrack and rewatch the films, and remember the moments where this bit of music coincides with that bit of film.
I don't know about you, but I have almost no idea what bits of music go with which parts of film for the PT, mostly because I haven't rewatched the scenes at all. The only ones I do know are the musical cues that featured in various video games, and a few of the REALLY memorable sequences like Duel of the Fates. But honestly, most of that I only remember because I've heard the music elsewhere and can kind of recall where it shows up in the films.
With this film, I've seen it...once. I don't remember the music because I've only seen it once and was too busy processing everything together. So, I don't really expect the moments in the film to remind me of, say, the Hoth battle and the music that plays during that, or the Cantina scene music.
I can sort of see this. The film seems faster-paced than the previous films, but I think it's intended to be. Still, there's a sense that the film lacks enough moments to breathe. That, however, seems to be a staple of JJ's style. I felt much the same way when watching his Trek films. Lots of action, but not a lot of stuff I can distinctly remember. We may see something different in the next film.
Honestly, I don't see this as a problem. I'm curious about what the hell is going on in the galaxy and such, but I get enough of the film to follow it. So, in that sense, it stands on its own. It's not that different from ANH, really. Again, I think we forget about how 30 years of backstory in myriad forms has influenced our views of the OT. Star Wars -- just on its own in 1977 form, without anything else having been done -- is nearly identical in terms of how little you know of the galaxy. I mean, the Senate is formally disbanded in ANH, but it's like "Wait, what Senate? Who the hell is the Emperor? I thought Vader was the bad guy. I thought we had an Empire, not a Republic." The backstory for the galaxy is equally thin in that film, and, really, for the entire OT.
It was only West End Games and the EU folks who really fleshed out the rest of the universe, based largely on George's notes and their own making-stuff-up. I have no doubt that the Story Group knows the answers to the questions likely raised by the new film, but the new film isn't really "about" answering those questions. That's what the New-EU material will be for.
Again, to be fair, we see, what, 10 X-wings and maybe 6 Y-wings at Yavin? It's pretty much the same thing in this film. I mean, if you wanted more because it's a new film and we can do more with CGI and stuff, yeah, I get that, but I think it could also end up being way too "busy" a visual display, in an already VERY busy film.
This one I agree with. Up to a point. I mean, I would prefer a wholly original film with no "callbacks," too. But, on the other hand, I kinda question how "Star Warsy" that film would've been, ya know? Would it have felt like "Star Wars" or just like "generic scifi movie"? I think it's likely the latter. But now that the bridge has been built between the OT and this new sequel trilogy (ST), I think the remaining ST films will be more able to develop in new ways, rather than just treading over the same old ground. There will always be common themes in these films, but that's largely due to "hero's journey" mechanics for this type of story. And, again, there's gonna be a TON of new "EU" material to take things in other directions.
I understand your perspective, but I guess I'd say "Hang in there. Things will improve."
For me, especially after the PT and what I heard about KOTCS for the Indy series, and all the various reboots, remakes, etc., one thing has become abundantly clear to me as I approach middle age:
You can't go home again.
You can, however, build a new home, and that's what I think this film ultimately does.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
Some more fun concept art of Rey's hovel:
JD
Master Member
Did you read the article? Did you listen to the podcast? Just because some that posts here mocks having a real discussion and being critical, doesn't mean everyone needs to buy into that
.I've read and re-read the quotes you elected to repost. I think initially, they may imply what you're saying - but, I think more truthfully, they're mere observations, that really don't say it's a bad film at all. I do understand how you might read that into all that.
Obviously, the article (and my post) are highlighting criticisms of the movie. You also edited your quote of my post - "That doesn't (mean it doesn't work, it just means that we are simply buying the product we're meant to buy)." Which certainly refutes your assumption. I also start off my post I start off with saying that I liked the movie and that I've seen it four times.
Yeah, Quinn is a bit more harsh than most - but, just because you might not necessarily agree wholeheartedly with what he's saying doesn't mean that it's meritless.
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