Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
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Wolfsburg
Master Member
Well if she isn't mindwiped, I have a much bigger problem with her being so capable with the Force in such a short amount of time. In the course of minutes or hours she's suddenly reversing invasive mind probes (which seemed to trigger something), performing mindtricks, and calling lightsabers to her from 20 feet away. Luke could barely summon a lightsaber to him that was nearly within grasp years after he was first made aware of the Force. Mindwipes are a cop out but her nearly immediate handling of the Force with no training whatsoever is worse in my book. I'd love to see how that is otherwise explained.
joshvanrad
Sr Member
Well I guess technically she's been using the force to her advantage her whole life, and that's how she's managed to survive on her own. I believe J.J. had said something to that effect in an interview. If I had to guess, she has been using the force without knowledge of what it is for a very long time. Certainly elements and tricks using the force were just opened up throughout the film, due to certain situations ie; the contact with the lightsaber, the mind-probing.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
I think the Force guides her in some sense and is used in an involuntary way perhaps but I think intentional and directed manipulation is quite a bit different. I'd say the Force probably aided Luke (great pilot, dianoga mysteriously let's go, etc.) but it was a long time before he could use it at will with any aplomb and he's the son of the most powerful Jedi to ever live.
That's just it, she doesn't know how she is doing what she is doing not because of a mind wipe but because it's never happened before. I am moving away from even the idea she was trained at Luke's academy. I don't think that's where she was in the rain facing the Knights of Ren. Colin Tervorrow recently said in a red carpet interview that Rey is important to the entire Galaxy. I think it's not her paternal relationship this hinges on but her relationship to the Force. She mind tricks the ST and tells Finn he wouldn't believe her if she told him how she escaped. The Force is changing her as we watch, we just don't know why.
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Yes, right, you posted that as I was typing. Let's also remember Luke wasn't the most powerful Force user ever, that was Anakin. I don't think Luke was ever meant to be a super Jedi, just an average one but one who let emotion and love guide him, something the PT Jedi were avoiding to their own peril. And that one brought balance to the Force. He looks at Rey not with any sense of recognition but instead I think he see's the Force communicating directly to him through her.
I'm not really the opposite... Maybe the adjacent opinion?
I agree that both of those options are weak, but I prefer "she's a really really fast learner" to mind wipe.
Mind wipes stink almost as much as the galaxy sized coincidences Star Wars relied on throughout the prequels. I know it's not likely, given the franchise recent history, but I'd love it if Her parents end up being someone we haven't met in the movies before now. Those giant coincidences ultimately do nothing for the story, and they make my eyes hurt from the rolling.
I agree that both of those options are weak, but I prefer "she's a really really fast learner" to mind wipe.
Mind wipes stink almost as much as the galaxy sized coincidences Star Wars relied on throughout the prequels. I know it's not likely, given the franchise recent history, but I'd love it if Her parents end up being someone we haven't met in the movies before now. Those giant coincidences ultimately do nothing for the story, and they make my eyes hurt from the rolling.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
The mind probe reversal may have been instinctual but she is certainly mind tricking JB-007 with full intent and doesn't accidentally summon the lightsaber to her. Her comment could easily just refer to Finn never having seen the Force in action. She knows what she's doing in those regards. If the son of the most powerful Jedi can't do this things with such ease without training, I am skeptical she could...unless she has been trained and doesn't remember it or there is something truly strange going on with her. Is she a proxy/avatar? Is someone or something acting through her? I might could buy that the Force is taking the unprecedented and unusually invasive step of actively controlling her, even to the extent of her actual body movements and actions.
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Solo4114
Master Member
I think the very fact that Rey has all of these powers pop up that she doesn't understand is used to highlight the fact that something is up with her. There's an explanation for this, but neither she nor the audience knows it yet. Finding out the truth will be the important part. The parental aspect is merely the vehicle most people are expecting as the explanation for her power.
"Well, she's Kenobi's granddaughter and Luke's daughter, so, obviously, that's why she's powerful." That, of course, doesn't need to be the case, but I think that's why everyone's so focused on her parentage.
"Well, she's Kenobi's granddaughter and Luke's daughter, so, obviously, that's why she's powerful." That, of course, doesn't need to be the case, but I think that's why everyone's so focused on her parentage.
She seems far more incredulous. That the notion of doing and the actual doing came to her from thin air so to speak. Again, we need to not think of the dogma of "training" all the time to be a Jedi. If the Force decides one day to imbue you with power, perhaps it can just happen without all the preamble. I find that concept very exciting and clearly that's what they are setting up for her story.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
Yeah, it's definitely interesting if that's what's happening. I don't like the idea that she's doing these things herself, but if the Force is taking such a invasive role and controlling her so directly in a way we've never quite seen, I'd be on board for that. I'd love to learn why this is happening now and to her specifically.
I feel like if she got a mind wipe though why would she act, throughout the entire film, like she has something to hide and wont tell anyone who asks about her? To her it wouldnt be a big deal. If you pay attention with this in mind when watching the film again, it seems like she is VERY deliberately hiding something from people who ask. It's almost as if she KNOWS she's supposed to be hiding and supposed to be a secret.
Axlotl
Master Member
I really dislike that we're trying to interpret Rey's "powers" through EU and prequel filters.
How did the Force get so misunderstood by so many writers over the years? George Lucas himself didn't even get it.
When did people forget that the Force was about spirituality and mysticism?
When did people forget that the life-lesson we learned via Luke's journey was that if you believe in yourself, anything is possible?
My personal theory on Rey's "powers" is that she's simply a stronger person than Luke was when he began his journey.
Rey already believes in herself, because she's been fighting for survival all her life.
How did the Force get so misunderstood by so many writers over the years? George Lucas himself didn't even get it.
When did people forget that the Force was about spirituality and mysticism?
When did people forget that the life-lesson we learned via Luke's journey was that if you believe in yourself, anything is possible?
My personal theory on Rey's "powers" is that she's simply a stronger person than Luke was when he began his journey.
Rey already believes in herself, because she's been fighting for survival all her life.
annanake
Sr Member
This is why I don't like different writers and to some extent directors for each film it is hard enough for the same story teller to stick with his own vision over the long haul take George for example I personally think he did a fine job but most think he lost his way . now they have to try to collaborate on the same vision throughout. And make Disney's focus group mass appeal a priority as well . what they come up with ?
Well like Otis said
" it better be some Mark Twain **** " !
Well like Otis said
" it better be some Mark Twain **** " !
Wolfsburg
Master Member
I'm not really seeing where that's happening. No EU/PT filters here. The OT very much emphasizes the value of training. Luke tells Obi-wan he wants to learn the ways of the Force. It isn't something that just happens. Yoda even says "Only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the Force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor." I never got the impression that all one needed to do is simply believe in themselves, although that's surely a part of it. Now if something weird is going on with Rey, so be it, but I don't think anything like this has been seen before. It's not typical.
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You hit the nail on the head. It's not typical and I think that is very intentional. Let's bring the mystery and magic back to the Force as opposed to an acquired skill set.
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G W Zipper
Well-Known Member
A few pages ago, several folks were stating that Kylo couldn't be super evil because he struggled with doing what he had to do. Isn't that precisely the kinds of thing that makes him, indeed, evil? I mean, is a shark evil that eats a surfer, or is the shark merely being a shark? Someone who recognizes an act as evil to the point where it nearly tears him apart, yet still does it, is pretty much as evil as it gets IMO.
annanake
Sr Member
There is a reason it is not a mystery to us at this point the last six movies over the course of the last 4 decades .
they better not just fundamentally change the way the force works to" bring back the mystery and magic " it is still magical . and as for the mystery they have plenty of that already without getting rid of the need to acquire skill in using the force.
Anakin was supposed to be a damn force baby and he needed more training than just someone to tell him he could use the force !
So unless Rey is a complete force baby no mom or dad she just popped out of the forces butt she IS gonna need to train .
How is THAT a Problem now ?
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annanake
Sr Member
Seeing it through prequel filters GUILTY if they don't like that Disney should have dismissed them as canon !
George Lucas himself invented it so not sure how you understand it better than him .
See the same prequels that showed us a 10,000 strong Jedi order that trained in the spirituality and mysticism but like mentioned by others became institutionalized in its dogma.
I agree with the last half of your point though.
Looking behind the "curtain" in the prequels to see what the Jedi order was really like, who Anakin really was and the politics behind the formation of the Empire really seemed to ruin alot of star wars for a lot of people .
Reminds me of real life and why we can not resolve our real life issues . I don't LIKE it so I will ignore it.
Everybody seems to want the same feeling as the first time they fell in love with Star Wars .
Sorry your not 8 anymore .
But the good news is I do see it from actual 8 year olds .
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