Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
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- Start date
ghostryder
Legendary Member
I was kinda annoyed they didn't take some shots at Ren - I mean, would YOU just sit there and watch?
Oh, that definitely went down! lol
But that was an inter-species relationship, not human inter-racial.
The Wook
annanake
Sr Member
That is what I got out of it as well . just a way kylo could end up outside to block there path and confront them.
Lol they were necking .
Hey lando did his best to get something started it was just the whole selling out the group to the empire got in the way .also
GL already implies interspecies in Jedi with Jabba and his sex slaves !
It seems I remember Carrie Fisher saying something about she was glad Daisey would not be in a skimpy outfit like she was .
The whole complaints about the slave outfit always got me it fit the story perfect, it was a few minutes in 6 hours of the trilogy and no one seems to think Arnold ( in every movie he ever does ) running around in his underwear or completely naked for that matter is sexest or demeaning . I think she was just self conscious about it .
annanake
Sr Member
I took that the same way they could have blasted him and he blocked a shot or two . the first viewing I was pissed chewie did not keep blasting him but the stormtroopers did attack quickly. Yet Finn and rey just stood looking bewildered forever . there are tons of little things like that but it seems every movie has problems like that .as well as real life lol !
binkleywalker
Sr Member
Also, that was Han's son. Could Chewie really blow him away? Loyalty is loyalty. I think wounding him was as far as his heart would let him.
Okay. There's been a lot over the last fifteen pages or so that I've seen people ask or comment on that have gone un-responded-to.
Regarding Snoke...
I generally treat the pre-ROTJ stuff written/published from '09 on as "canon until it isn't", as it was written under the guidance of the Story Group, to mesh with the canon as perfectly as possible. Kenobi and Darth Plagueis, most relevantly. Plagueis was a Munn in that novel, in accordance with George's notion. I can't see LFL randomly deciding to change that up when they are working everywhere else to incorporate as much of the old EU as they can into the canon. Even though the score uses the same cue as when Palpatine is talking about his old Master, I don't think it's the same person. The ancillary material (which the moviegoing audience shouldn't have to read to keep up with what's going on) says Snoke had some kind of connection to the New Republic that went sour in a big way. More as it develops.
Regarding Rey's old-school flight helmet...
That should settle that part. I'm consolidating it here for clarity. Plus, I want to highlight somethign that was mentioned in dialogue, but overlapping with Finn, so easily missed. The Art of book also mentions they'd wanted Rey to have a cobbled-together ship as well as her speeder (I like the X-Wing/Y-Wing/some other stuff Ugly it showed). She is a pilot, but has never flown off-planet.
Regarding interrogation techniques...
The material Brian Daley had to reference when writing the Star Wars radio drama had the droid give Leia drugs to weaken her will, then Vader used the Force to try to pull the info out of her, to no avail. It's a pretty unsettling sequence to listen to. I imagine the droid in the Finalizer's interrogation chamber was there for the same reason.
As for Vader getting Luke's sister's existence out of him, Luke -- a trained Jedi by that point -- was actively resisting letting Vader in, so Vader went with the first tidbits he was able to gleanto try to shake Luke's concentration. It worked. Unfortunately for him.
Regarding travel times...
It still felt like they were in transit for less than an hour. Chewie and Artoo were well into their first game. Luke was just getting going with his first exercises. And Han came out of the cockpit to let them know they'd lost their pursuers. Then, after about five minutes of dialogue about the Force, the navicomputer signalled that they were coming up on their destination.
Nope. The map was while they were hanging in space after leaving Jakku. BB-8 hadn't even told them the system they were going to yet. Then things broke and Han tractored them in. The rest, about the Force and Luke, was all while th eFalcon was sitting on the deck of Han's new ship.
Regarding the map...
There are a lot of inconsistencies with Star Wars astrogation going all the way back. Hyperjumps seem to be really fast. The Visual Dictionary map bits match the Legends atlas as far as we've seen, so they are probably going with the galaxy being approximately half explored, for reasons. If Starkiller Base is Ilum, as its origin point indicates, that was a little bit into the Unknown Regions.
Thing is, it's actually WRITTEN ok. A small piece could be impossible to find lost in a galaxy without context. It's not a writing mistake, it's an art mistake: they made the piece WAY too big in proportion.[/QUOTE]
I think it works. 3PO said the systems in the map fragment didn't match any known systems, so it'd be a course track into uncharted space. And it's about halfway out from the galactic center, so it's not the "Jedi homeworld" of the EU, Tython, which was in the Deep Core. For me, I'm hoping more is said about this in Episode VIII...
Regarding Anakin's arc...
I so wish George had actually plotted some story points out in advance, they way he always claimed he had. There are inconsistencies we're stuck with. Leia wasn't supposed to be Luke's sister. Vader wasn't supposed to be Anakin. Those got changed on the fly. That makes Anakin knowing how to become a Force ghost when Vader apparently didn't problematic (per Ben's taunt to Vader in ANH). Further, Anakin's ghost being Special Editioned into Hayden doesn't work, as he'd returned to being Anakin there at the end before he died. So he should have been old, as originally shown.
The best answer, to me, is that Anakin didn't know, but maybe Obi-Wan did something from the other side that will get explained later. And, unknowingly, the Vader persona got dragged along subconsciously. And maybe Snoke knows a way to bring that persona up and he used that to seduce Ben Solo, Exar Kun-style.
The thing about all of this is repentence versus responsibility (not redemption). Anakin died before he could be made to account for his actions. Ben might survive long enough to be taken to task.
Miscellany...
I will. It isn't.
He flat-out says it was his first battle. Also, Phasma says this is his first indication of nonconformity. No prior incidents.
Hologram, as stated. But apparently over the last thirty years, they've figured out how to get rid of the blue tint and scan lines.
The use of slo-mo is meant to imply the sort of crisis-mode time-slows-down of her relaxing into the moment, whereupon the Force is with her for the rest of the fight.
There is too much that relies on ancillary material. A lot of people asking if that was Coruscant getting blown up means they should have spent a little time establishing in the movie that it was Hosnian Prime (more than one line), and why it was the capitol. Not everything spelled out, but just enough.
It was easy to lose track from the tight shots of the battle-in-progress, but there were something like forty fighters that went in and seven that made it out. We saw lots of X-Wings getting taken out. In Star Wars, we didn't see many, originally, but dialogue established that there were thirty Rebel fighters, of which three made it out.
Regarding Rey's vision and its implications for the timeline of events...
No quotes here. Just reinforcing the observation that all times can be seen through the Force. I vehemently disagree with those who say it is of events she was present for -- the first part is on Cloud City, where the saber was lost, and well before she was even a twinkle in her father's eye. I think the vision plays out chronologically, though. Cloud City and Vader... Luke mourning the loss of his students(probable)/wife(possible)... Kylo Ren and six othe rpresumed Knights of Ren massacring a bunch of people in the rain, including Constable Zuvio who had a longer scene that was cut... a ~4-year-old Rey being left with Unkar Plutt on Jakku (@ he says "Easy" when she's crying out and pulling away, by the way, not "Daisy")... then in the forest on Starkiller Base, a premonition of the upcoming conflict.
That has interesting implications for what happened when, if my read on it is accurate. Was Snoke the apprentice that wiped out the academy? Did Luke have the double blow of that and then later losing Ben to Snoke to make him up and leave? Wanting to know more about where that rain scene was and what was happening. I get the feeling it was Kylo's debut as Kylo, leading the Knights of Ren into action for the first time, and that prompted Rey's exile. As for relative ages... People have pointed out that Kylo looks full-grown in that rain scene. Considering Adam Driver's well over six feet, and fairly slender, it's hard to judge. I'm willing to bet he's had roughly the same build from his mid-teens on -- especially if one of your comparison shots is at night in the rain and hie's wearing black robes and a mask.
And then the last part of the vision was a warning about her own upcoming moment of crisis -- the way Luke's was in the cave on Dagobah.. which was a premonitory echo of the maintenance corridor under the carbon-freezing chamber... which was the beginnign of Rey's vision... Yay circles within circles.
--Jonah
Regarding Snoke...
I generally treat the pre-ROTJ stuff written/published from '09 on as "canon until it isn't", as it was written under the guidance of the Story Group, to mesh with the canon as perfectly as possible. Kenobi and Darth Plagueis, most relevantly. Plagueis was a Munn in that novel, in accordance with George's notion. I can't see LFL randomly deciding to change that up when they are working everywhere else to incorporate as much of the old EU as they can into the canon. Even though the score uses the same cue as when Palpatine is talking about his old Master, I don't think it's the same person. The ancillary material (which the moviegoing audience shouldn't have to read to keep up with what's going on) says Snoke had some kind of connection to the New Republic that went sour in a big way. More as it develops.
Regarding Rey's old-school flight helmet...
That should settle that part. I'm consolidating it here for clarity. Plus, I want to highlight somethign that was mentioned in dialogue, but overlapping with Finn, so easily missed. The Art of book also mentions they'd wanted Rey to have a cobbled-together ship as well as her speeder (I like the X-Wing/Y-Wing/some other stuff Ugly it showed). She is a pilot, but has never flown off-planet.
Regarding interrogation techniques...
The material Brian Daley had to reference when writing the Star Wars radio drama had the droid give Leia drugs to weaken her will, then Vader used the Force to try to pull the info out of her, to no avail. It's a pretty unsettling sequence to listen to. I imagine the droid in the Finalizer's interrogation chamber was there for the same reason.
As for Vader getting Luke's sister's existence out of him, Luke -- a trained Jedi by that point -- was actively resisting letting Vader in, so Vader went with the first tidbits he was able to gleanto try to shake Luke's concentration. It worked. Unfortunately for him.
Regarding travel times...
It still felt like they were in transit for less than an hour. Chewie and Artoo were well into their first game. Luke was just getting going with his first exercises. And Han came out of the cockpit to let them know they'd lost their pursuers. Then, after about five minutes of dialogue about the Force, the navicomputer signalled that they were coming up on their destination.
Nope. The map was while they were hanging in space after leaving Jakku. BB-8 hadn't even told them the system they were going to yet. Then things broke and Han tractored them in. The rest, about the Force and Luke, was all while th eFalcon was sitting on the deck of Han's new ship.
Regarding the map...
There are a lot of inconsistencies with Star Wars astrogation going all the way back. Hyperjumps seem to be really fast. The Visual Dictionary map bits match the Legends atlas as far as we've seen, so they are probably going with the galaxy being approximately half explored, for reasons. If Starkiller Base is Ilum, as its origin point indicates, that was a little bit into the Unknown Regions.
Thing is, it's actually WRITTEN ok. A small piece could be impossible to find lost in a galaxy without context. It's not a writing mistake, it's an art mistake: they made the piece WAY too big in proportion.[/QUOTE]
I think it works. 3PO said the systems in the map fragment didn't match any known systems, so it'd be a course track into uncharted space. And it's about halfway out from the galactic center, so it's not the "Jedi homeworld" of the EU, Tython, which was in the Deep Core. For me, I'm hoping more is said about this in Episode VIII...
Regarding Anakin's arc...
I so wish George had actually plotted some story points out in advance, they way he always claimed he had. There are inconsistencies we're stuck with. Leia wasn't supposed to be Luke's sister. Vader wasn't supposed to be Anakin. Those got changed on the fly. That makes Anakin knowing how to become a Force ghost when Vader apparently didn't problematic (per Ben's taunt to Vader in ANH). Further, Anakin's ghost being Special Editioned into Hayden doesn't work, as he'd returned to being Anakin there at the end before he died. So he should have been old, as originally shown.
The best answer, to me, is that Anakin didn't know, but maybe Obi-Wan did something from the other side that will get explained later. And, unknowingly, the Vader persona got dragged along subconsciously. And maybe Snoke knows a way to bring that persona up and he used that to seduce Ben Solo, Exar Kun-style.
The thing about all of this is repentence versus responsibility (not redemption). Anakin died before he could be made to account for his actions. Ben might survive long enough to be taken to task.
Miscellany...
I will. It isn't.
He flat-out says it was his first battle. Also, Phasma says this is his first indication of nonconformity. No prior incidents.
Hologram, as stated. But apparently over the last thirty years, they've figured out how to get rid of the blue tint and scan lines.
The use of slo-mo is meant to imply the sort of crisis-mode time-slows-down of her relaxing into the moment, whereupon the Force is with her for the rest of the fight.
There is too much that relies on ancillary material. A lot of people asking if that was Coruscant getting blown up means they should have spent a little time establishing in the movie that it was Hosnian Prime (more than one line), and why it was the capitol. Not everything spelled out, but just enough.
It was easy to lose track from the tight shots of the battle-in-progress, but there were something like forty fighters that went in and seven that made it out. We saw lots of X-Wings getting taken out. In Star Wars, we didn't see many, originally, but dialogue established that there were thirty Rebel fighters, of which three made it out.
Regarding Rey's vision and its implications for the timeline of events...
No quotes here. Just reinforcing the observation that all times can be seen through the Force. I vehemently disagree with those who say it is of events she was present for -- the first part is on Cloud City, where the saber was lost, and well before she was even a twinkle in her father's eye. I think the vision plays out chronologically, though. Cloud City and Vader... Luke mourning the loss of his students(probable)/wife(possible)... Kylo Ren and six othe rpresumed Knights of Ren massacring a bunch of people in the rain, including Constable Zuvio who had a longer scene that was cut... a ~4-year-old Rey being left with Unkar Plutt on Jakku (@ he says "Easy" when she's crying out and pulling away, by the way, not "Daisy")... then in the forest on Starkiller Base, a premonition of the upcoming conflict.
That has interesting implications for what happened when, if my read on it is accurate. Was Snoke the apprentice that wiped out the academy? Did Luke have the double blow of that and then later losing Ben to Snoke to make him up and leave? Wanting to know more about where that rain scene was and what was happening. I get the feeling it was Kylo's debut as Kylo, leading the Knights of Ren into action for the first time, and that prompted Rey's exile. As for relative ages... People have pointed out that Kylo looks full-grown in that rain scene. Considering Adam Driver's well over six feet, and fairly slender, it's hard to judge. I'm willing to bet he's had roughly the same build from his mid-teens on -- especially if one of your comparison shots is at night in the rain and hie's wearing black robes and a mask.
And then the last part of the vision was a warning about her own upcoming moment of crisis -- the way Luke's was in the cave on Dagobah.. which was a premonitory echo of the maintenance corridor under the carbon-freezing chamber... which was the beginnign of Rey's vision... Yay circles within circles.--Jonah
cayman shen
Master Member
Regarding old EU vs new EU, I just wanna say that Muun are stupid looking and utterly unthreatening in every way. If one sprang out from under my bed at night holding a bloody steak knife in one hand and a rabid shark in the other, I'd slap his goofy Munn ass out my front door. And then I'd have the neighbor kids tease him until he cried. Because Muun suck.
So if it's Darth P, I hope he's not a Muun is all I'm saying.
So if it's Darth P, I hope he's not a Muun is all I'm saying.
Couple little things I noticed on my second viewing, sorry if they were obvious.
- Poe shoots Finn's "friend" in the beginning, the one that pushes him into his freak out. Never made that connection before. Apparently Finn isnt bothered by it or didnt notice.
- When Kylo is interrogating Rey, he mentions a dream she has every night about "an ocean" and "I see the island". So clearly even before she has really given in to The Force, she knows where Luke is and what it looks like, or Luke has shown it to her through The Force.
- Poe shoots Finn's "friend" in the beginning, the one that pushes him into his freak out. Never made that connection before. Apparently Finn isnt bothered by it or didnt notice.
- When Kylo is interrogating Rey, he mentions a dream she has every night about "an ocean" and "I see the island". So clearly even before she has really given in to The Force, she knows where Luke is and what it looks like, or Luke has shown it to her through The Force.
annanake
Sr Member
Yeah I believe you are right about the hyperjump map speech thing. But when ren has rey over the Cliff in the light saber duel it does not go slo-mo he asked her to be his apprentice and is waiting for an answer that is how she has the time to collect her chi so to speak .and as far as the small fleet at the end IT WAS they lost 6 or so ships , the dude says it is half there fleet and we see half o dozen ships and the falcon leave the battle at the end. That is how close the first order was to winning!!!!!!!!!! The republic had become worthless and Leia was running an off the books and unsanctioned unfunded force .
And I still do not understand how smoke can not be a munn he looked like he got his face melted one side of his mouth is all stuck together looking I refer back to my post about Palatine after the mace fight and don't tell me about the book ( not that you were )he turns into a damn smoke monster when he is confronted by the Jedi in the book and has his saber hidden in a supper dense sculpture in his office.
And I still do not understand how smoke can not be a munn he looked like he got his face melted one side of his mouth is all stuck together looking I refer back to my post about Palatine after the mace fight and don't tell me about the book ( not that you were )he turns into a damn smoke monster when he is confronted by the Jedi in the book and has his saber hidden in a supper dense sculpture in his office.
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ghostryder
Legendary Member
Which is a shame because the movies I tend to like the best are the ones where the characters act logically in fantastical situation (Alien, Aliens...). Even they just fired off a shot or two it would have been cooler...
annanake
Sr Member
Finn should have thrown his blaster down when Han got shot with his best Paxton impersanaton " GAME OVER MAN !" Just for a bloopers reel .lol
JD
Master Member
Speaking of Brian Daley, I'd love to see another audio dramatization in the vein of his original radio dramas. They are amazing... if you're reading this thread and haven't listened to these, please drop everything and pick them up.
Regarding Rey's vision and its implications for the timeline of events...
Well played, Snoke being that apprentice gone bad is something I haven't heard yet. That's an interesting theory... although, his line "...I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall..." makes you think he would be too old for training, but ya never know.That has interesting implications for what happened when, if my read on it is accurate. Was Snoke the apprentice that wiped out the academy? Did Luke have the double blow of that and then later losing Ben to Snoke to make him up and leave? Wanting to know more about where that rain scene was and what was happening. I get the feeling it was Kylo's debut as Kylo, leading the Knights of Ren into action for the first time, and that prompted Rey's exile. As for relative ages... People have pointed out that Kylo looks full-grown in that rain scene. Considering Adam Driver's well over six feet, and fairly slender, it's hard to judge. I'm willing to bet he's had roughly the same build from his mid-teens on -- especially if one of your comparison shots is at night in the rain and hie's wearing black robes and a mask.
annanake
Sr Member
You know what I wanna know when the first shot at the resistance base is shown we see two X- Wing pilots running I think both women by the way . where the hell were they going if you watch them there just running off to the woods. Are they going to go make out? Is that the bathroom ? I know it is just background .
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Yeah he watched the Empire rise and fall because he's the 1000 plus year old plagues lol.
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Yeah he watched the Empire rise and fall because he's the 1000 plus year old plagues lol.
annanake
Sr Member
Maybe Luke found a "good" home for rey and those parents left her on jakku ?? i thought i remember her saying something about her mother's voice in the book ???And maybe she took her name off the helmet she found rather than it being a coincidence ? Or maybe it was just a little easter egg??? And maybe I need to go watch it again to do my part to help Disney and ford get richer?!?!?!?!
By the way it is only 3D now at my lacal harkins, I guess there given all the regular 2D business away . strange .actually looking ahead they have no 2D until Saturday .
By the way it is only 3D now at my lacal harkins, I guess there given all the regular 2D business away . strange .actually looking ahead they have no 2D until Saturday .
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annanake
Sr Member
Sith break the rule all the time there are never only two Darth maul ,tyrannies overlap plus in clone wars cartoon he had a female duel saber weilding apprentice himself . they just don't let there apprentices know about each other it seems. It would suck to lose an apprentice and have to start from scratch .stupid auto correct makes dooku a tranny lol.
When you think about it if Snoke is Plagues or whoever and he was conducting Palpy,maybe even conducting the whole Republic the last thousand or so years so it would fall that would make the Sith a whole lot more threatening and dangerous.
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