Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)

Paul Andrew said:
No argument from me, ANH helped usher in a new era of filmmaking and deserves its kudos.

I don't know about discrediting the OT though. In my view it's more like trying to show that a lot of the same nonsense people gripe about in the new shows existed in the old movies too. Not to take anything away from those movies, just to say "Hey, these things we love got passes for all this same stuff, why the hate for the new?"
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Totally agree! I think all of us fans, to some degree, view the OT through rose-tinted glasses. It is beloved to us since our youth, and we love it unconditionally.

As we grew with it over the decades, we learned all about the actual history of the productions, but chose to embrace all the wonkiness and mistakes made along the way. We even celebrate the flaws, especially when it comes to the props and costumes.

It would be blasphemous to have symmetrical Vader or stormtrooper helmets, for example. Surely, the asymmetry was never any intention of the creators, but merely the limitations of the production. Instead of correcting it, we put it up on a pedestal. Idealized recreations that correct the asymmetry, or increase the detail level above the originals, are less valued. Yet, I doubt anything post-Disney would get such a pass.

Likewise, the OT productions get passes for all sorts of "sins" that the newer productions would be criticized for. We know that Lucas was making up stuff as he went, and changing his mind the whole way, and then trying to act like he had it all planned out, all along. We know that Lucas was motivated by his merchandizing rights, and made decisions like changing Wookies to Ewoks to sell more toys to children, but somehow it isn't "evil" when Lucas did it. Lucas himself is the all-time king of retconning his own story, since the very beginning, and he not only gets a pass for it, but we stress over anything with the potential to newly retcon the sacred old retcons.
 
“The old stuff was bad too, why hate on the new stuff? We forgive mistakes for stuff we love!”

Except the “old stuff” earned its love through its merits. The new stuff is almost entirely “loved” because STAR WARS, KENOBI, LIGHTSABER, JEDI, X-WING, AT-AT, DARTH VADER are plastered all over them. I’m not going to forgive the many flaws of something bad because it hijacks your nostalgia for a separate piece of media made by entirely different people forty years ago. People don’t forgive the “No life forms, don’t fire on that escape pod” line in ANH because “well, this is a Flash Gordon fan film/homage, and that show/piece of media had bad writing all the time.”

Also, stop it please with the ROTJ examples. It’s really easy to forget that, once upon a time, ROTJ was the worst Star Wars movie. That people did not unilaterally like or accept every part of the movie. “But George Lucas and the Ewoks…and George retconned Leia” yes we ALL get it. People have been trash talking Ewoks since 1983. As mentioned above, people have been discussing the discrepancies caused by ROTJ since 1983. No one “gave George a pass” then.

However, even ROTJ has an exceptional opening sequence and a very strong, character-driven storyline for Luke. So even though it means watching Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher phone it in with some Care Bears in front of a door, we watch and love that movie. Kenobi does not reach the highs of the Sail Barge/Jabba’s Palace, nor does it have the same emotional throughline and character growth of the battle on the Death Star. Which, again, is why I’m not bothering to finish the show. If you want to praise the show and call Star Wars “dumb kids stuff and it always has been”, then I pity you, but feel free to do so.
 
SpyderDan said:
- Hayden looked WAY too old to portray AOTC-era Anakin, and Obi-wan's ***** hair looked like a bad wig in those flashbacks.
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And of course, some YouTubers have already done a nice job of de-aging Hayden with about the same production quality as the rest of the show...

de-age.png
 
I had a vison of Obi Wan meeting Anakin before the prequels and it was a lot like the Star Trek 2009 Reboot Pike meeting Kirk scene but many years earlier. A much older, 40 something Obi goes into a Cantina and finds a 19ish Anakin taking on a full group of punks and Obi Wan sees his potential.

None of this he was an arrogant ass hat ahead of time. The whole point of Luke possibly turning to the Dark Side is it could get anyone, no matter how good. In the prequels Anakin is a jerk, mad, whiny despite how good he is and screams "I am gonna turn."

Anakin should have been the best in both ability and attitude and then we see his slow slide to the Dark Side culminating with he and Obi Wan having to face off for some reason, and even though Anakin is teetering on the edge he is NOT Darth Vader.

He goes into the fire, Lave water, whatever, Anakin Skywalker and comes out Darth Vader. That could turn someone to the Dark Side. Not cutting the hand off of a supervisor.

"What have I done?" "I cut Sam Jackson's hand off. I feel so bad"

Two minutes later

"Sure, I can go slaughter little kids, and just in case you doubt it we are gonna show it on our Disney show."
 
HMSwolfe said:
“The old stuff was bad too, why hate on the new stuff? We forgive mistakes for stuff we love!”

Except the “old stuff” earned its love through its merits. The new stuff is almost entirely “loved” because STAR WARS, KENOBI, LIGHTSABER, JEDI, X-WING, AT-AT, DARTH VADER are plastered all over them. I’m not going to forgive the many flaws of something bad because it hijacks your nostalgia for a separate piece of media made by entirely different people forty years ago. People don’t forgive the “No life forms, don’t fire on that escape pod” line in ANH because “well, this is a Flash Gordon fan film/homage, and that show/piece of media had bad writing all the time.”

Also, stop it please with the ROTJ examples. It’s really easy to forget that, once upon a time, ROTJ was the worst Star Wars movie. That people did not unilaterally like or accept every part of the movie. “But George Lucas and the Ewoks…and George retconned Leia” yes we ALL get it. People have been trash talking Ewoks since 1983. As mentioned above, people have been discussing the discrepancies caused by ROTJ since 1983. No one “gave George a pass” then.

However, even ROTJ has an exceptional opening sequence and a very strong, character-driven storyline for Luke. So even though it means watching Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher phone it in with some Care Bears in front of a door, we watch and love that movie. Kenobi does not reach the highs of the Sail Barge/Jabba’s Palace, nor does it have the same emotional throughline and character growth of the battle on the Death Star. Which, again, is why I’m not bothering to finish the show. If you want to praise the show and call Star Wars “dumb kids stuff and it always has been”, then I pity you, but feel free to do so.
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This speaks to how well those original characters were in their debut stories. Hands down the most successful elements of the new material is callbacks to the old. That alone should say it all. Giving us watered down or dumbed down versions of the same is the issue.

Or better yet, learn from Mando season 1 and go elsewhere. That season has been the best thing they've done with the property by a long shot.
 
SpyderDan said:
Point taken. Call it a legitimate criticism instead of a nitpick if you want. I don't see the terms being mutually exclusive. Hard to think of anything I like that I could not also legitimately criticize. Top Gun: Maverick immediately comes to mind, and I enjoyed it quite a bit, despite it being easy to criticize on multiple levels.

If it was Disney's intention for Reva to be some exciting new character, it fell completely flat with me.

However, I was never in it because of any interest in that character in the first place. I'm there for Kenobi and Vader. If she just ends up being a throwaway plot device for this one series, that's fine by me. The character hasn't ruined the show for me yet, though.

If they re-edited Kenobi at the last minute, as has been rumored, to have her survive for either her own spin-off or extending Kenobi to a "second season", that could be a travesty. I doubt any of that is actually the case, but we'll see. I'll reserve my judgement until such an unlikelihood actually occurs.

Getting more screen time does not a "main antagonist" make, however. I find it hard to argue that Vader is not the main antagonist here, and Vader is getting much more screen time than I dared to hope for anyway, and is being handled brilliantly, in my opinion. Reva is just a disposable tool, being played by both sides, and that fits my disinterest in the character just fine.

Nobody in my household seems to like her either, but it isn't causing any outrage or loss of interest in the show. My 10 year old pumped his fists and exclaimed "Yes!" when Vader stabbed her with her own lightsaber. Was he supposed to get attached to the character, and expect her to defeat Vader somehow? Is his sister supposed to want to dress up as Reva for Halloween? Is that a requirement for a "good" show or movie, to have all antagonists, primary or not, be likeable characters that you care about?

Regardless of any Disney agenda for the Reva character, the show seems to be working just fine anyway. That character's unlikability might wreck Disney's merchandizing efforts to sell Reva action figures, but I'm still getting the Obi-Wan Kenobi show that I hoped for despite her, if not because of her.
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"Nitpick" is thrown around to the point where any criticism of the show is labeled such was my point.

Well I didn't say that giving Reva more screen time made her an antagonist. She is an antagonist based on her behavior in the series at least until she attacks Vader. The fact that she had a lot of screen time contributes to showing her character's importance as well as her story being a main focus of the entire series. Therefore criticism of her character is indeed not at all a "nitpick." I also didn't make comment to any effect that its a requirement to like any particular aspect of a show for it to be considered good.

Thats great that the show works for you overall but given that fact doesn't automatically make any criticism with it insignificant or illegitimate. Just like when someone doesn't like a series overall doesn't mean there are no positive points about it.
 
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Make Darth Vader a whinny teenage bitch. I've never seen Darth Vader as a whinny teenage bitch
Make him have a creepy romance with Luke and Leia's mom. It's a little cringe but nothing more than most teenage romances
Turn evil for no reason other than being a gullible punk. I never saw Anakin as gullible. I see him as damaged, scared, and full of trauma.
Murders children ten minutes after being a good guy. Again, damaged, scared, and full of trauma.
Learn nothing about Obi Wan after six hours of prequel movies. I feel all 6 SW movies with Obi-Wan have greatly enhanced the Kenobi show.
Destroy Luke and Han. I have never seen Luke and Han as destroyed.
Turn Leia into a ridiculous Mary Poppins. I actually enjoy that scene, I think it's neat.
Piss on everything accomplished in the O.T. I have never seen anything post O.T. like that.
Destroy Boba Fett. I don't see Boba Fett as destroyed, I see him as evolved.
Destroy Obi Wan. I don't see Obi-Wan as destroyed, I see him as evolved.
Fudge up any sense of continuity left in the thing. Continuity seems fine to me
Destroy Vader. Vader is going strong in my book. In R1 and Kenobi I'd probably say epic.
 
James Kenobi 1138 said:
Make Darth Vader a whinny teenage bitch. I've never seen Darth Vader as a whinny teenage bitch
Make him have a creepy romance with Luke and Leia's mom. It's a little cringe but nothing more than most teenage romances
Turn evil for no reason other than being a gullible punk. I never saw Anakin as gullible. I see him as damaged, scared, and full of trauma.
Murders children ten minutes after being a good guy. Again, damaged, scared, and full of trauma.
Learn nothing about Obi Wan after six hours of prequel movies. I feel all 6 SW movies with Obi-Wan have greatly enhanced the Kenobi show.
Destroy Luke and Han. I have never seen Luke and Han as destroyed.
Turn Leia into a ridiculous Mary Poppins. I actually enjoy that scene, I think it's neat.
Piss on everything accomplished in the O.T. I have never seen anything post O.T. like that.
Destroy Boba Fett. I don't see Boba Fett as destroyed, I see him as evolved.
Destroy Obi Wan. I don't see Obi-Wan as destroyed, I see him as evolved.
Fudge up any sense of continuity left in the thing. Continuity seems fine to me
Destroy Vader. Vader is going strong in my book. In R1 and Kenobi I'd probably say epic.
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ok JoEk3rr...this one's for you...lol

1655755181708.png


Don't take this personally James... you just set me up for a spike on a previous post...lol
 
James Kenobi 1138 said:
Make Darth Vader a whinny teenage bitch. I've never seen Darth Vader as a whinny teenage bitch
Make him have a creepy romance with Luke and Leia's mom. It's a little cringe but nothing more than most teenage romances
Turn evil for no reason other than being a gullible punk. I never saw Anakin as gullible. I see him as damaged, scared, and full of trauma.
Murders children ten minutes after being a good guy. Again, damaged, scared, and full of trauma.
Learn nothing about Obi Wan after six hours of prequel movies. I feel all 6 SW movies with Obi-Wan have greatly enhanced the Kenobi show.
Destroy Luke and Han. I have never seen Luke and Han as destroyed.
Turn Leia into a ridiculous Mary Poppins. I actually enjoy that scene, I think it's neat.
Piss on everything accomplished in the O.T. I have never seen anything post O.T. like that.
Destroy Boba Fett. I don't see Boba Fett as destroyed, I see him as evolved.
Destroy Obi Wan. I don't see Obi-Wan as destroyed, I see him as evolved.
Fudge up any sense of continuity left in the thing. Continuity seems fine to me
Destroy Vader. Vader is going strong in my book. In R1 and Kenobi I'd probably say epic.
Click to expand...


If that is how you see it that is totally cool. Enjoy! (y)
 
NakedMoleRat said:
Basically, Leia is the Grogu of this series.
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I've just watched all five over the last week and came to the same conclusion..
Looking back through this Thread I think Disney did to and for Every worrying thought possed by someone on here they must have thought..
Kenobi leaves planet...Tick!
Kenobi fights Vader..Tick!
Kenobi meets.. Insert comment.

I thought we were going to get a more episodic type series but hey its OK, the sets look fantastic, Ewan looks great..
The story could have been done in two episodes IMO and looks like it's going to take ten to finish, I don't mind if we get a few seasons telling different stories..
It does remind me of The In(vaders) and a slew of (the fugitive) where the hero is being perused ( The TV Incredible Hulk) by an Antagonist.. Vader is fast becoming the (ScoobieDoo) Villan of the week!
I like the Raiden type inquisitor he looks cool..
Stormtroopers wait in line to be dispatched but in a less violent way than other seasons..
I cheered when Dr Evil ahem! was you know..
Same with the end battle but then... Groan, can we have the odd death Disney.. Yeah there were a few characters but none I cared about.
It's still early days but want a bit more grit in my porridge please Disney..

20220620_221455.jpg
 
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