Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)

[SpyderDan]

I think it is the other way around. At least how it is presented in ANH. She is the celebrity (being a princess and a senator) , and he's just someone who served her father (as a general).
She does not seem to know that he is/was a jedi in ANH ... if they wanted his help because of his jedi abilities she should have addressed him as a jedi instead of as a general.
Still, because of the circumstances she's begging him for help desperately. She's basically betting on his loyalty and compassion, mentioning how he served her father, how this is very important for the rebellion, etc. I really find it hard to believe that if he saved her life 9 years ago she won't use that to strengthen her message. Like "You saved me from the empire when I was kidnapped, now I need your help again. .. blah .. blah... Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are my only hope"

That may also have been true for Lucas's intentions at the time ANH was made, before he actually had a lot of the rest of the story worked out. A lot of what we're all fussing over may well have initially been throwaway expository lines, that Lucas may never have intended to expand upon back then.

None of that changes the facts that Lucas did re-work his story as he went, throughout the OT and PT, and left plenty of loose ends to potentially tie up in ways that Lucas either never thought through, or never delivered upon if he did. The PT would seem to dictate a lot more than any of George's original intentions back in '76, that evolved and changed dramatically over the following 30 years. Lucas seems to get a pass for this, but Disney does not?

So, if that is how Leia's lines in ANH could be theoretically improved to better mesh with the Kenobi show that we got, the question becomes what story changes for the Kenobi show might have worked better for the actual lines that we got back in '77? Can you have young Leia meet Kenobi at all before ANH, or do those ANH lines preclude any such possibility, as some seem to be arguing?

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

I'm still expecting some Force-MindTrick-Shenanigans where Ben clears Leia's mind of his existence to keep them all three safe, & ALSO, gives her the glimpses of Padme that explain the memories that she recounts to Luke in ROTJ.

We saw Luke 'unlock' Grogu's memories, & I assumed, Luke saw them as well. No reason to think that the power wouldn't work both ways.

 

[CopperRevan]

That may also have been true for Lucas's intentions at the time ANH was made, before he actually had a lot of the rest of the story worked out. A lot of what we're all fussing over may well have initially been throwaway expository lines, that Lucas may never have intended to expand upon back then.

None of that changes the facts that Lucas did re-work his story as he went, throughout the OT and PT, and left plenty of loose ends to potentially tie up in ways that Lucas either never thought through, or never delivered upon if he did. The PT would seem to dictate a lot more than any of George's original intentions back in '76, that evolved and changed dramatically over the following 30 years. Lucas seems to get a pass for this, but Disney does not?

So, if that is how Leia's lines in ANH could be theoretically improved to better mesh with the Kenobi show that we got, the question becomes what story changes for the Kenobi show might have worked better for the actual lines that we got back in '77? Can you have young Leia meet Kenobi at all before ANH, or do those ANH lines preclude any such possibility, as some seem to be arguing?

The point is, if it was a possibility why was nobody talking about it prior to this show? Millions of fans somehow failed to predict that possible out come? Or was it settled in our minds already they had never met?...because the context clearly indicates...THEY NEVER MET. Listen, i can justify why i think my birthday cake has the possibilty of being a pizza, but more likely than not, since it's for a birthday and that it's called a cake it's probably a cake...Hopefully a cheesecake, since it's my favorite...lol

You did however give me a great idea...i'll give you that. Why don't we start a thread where any one of us can write a script or a plot summary of a Kenobi show that we think would work with ROTS and ANH? My guess is that we will get AMAZING results that make this current show look even more silly than it does.

If i decide to do that thread i may make it very interesting in that, like a contest. Whoever comes up with the best idea wins something.( i will not include myself in the contest and preclude myself from winning and since everyone will see everyones responses, we can vote on it. Does that interest anyone or is it a waste of time? We can atleast wait til after the finale to do so to be fair to see how they end it.

 

[joberg]

Sooo...Obi Wan has witnessed the birth of the "Twins" (check box).
He gave Leia to one set of parents to protect her from the Empire (check box)
He gave Luke to another set of parents to protect him, but to also reside on Tatooine to keep an eye on the boy(check box)
He does those two actions because he knows that the "Twins" could be the ones changing the course of events in the Galaxy(check box)
And he doesn't remember Leia

 

[Paul Andrew]

The point is, if it was a possibility why was nobody talking about it prior to this show? Millions of fans somehow failed to predict that possible out come? Or was it settled in our minds already they had never met?...because the context clearly indicates...THEY NEVER MET. Listen, i can justify why i think my birthday cake has the possibilty of being a pizza, but more likely than not, since it's for a birthday and that it's called a cake it's probably a cake...Hopefully a cheesecake, since it's my favorite...lol

To me this reasoning doesn't hold water. Just because most people assumed a thing, or presumed a thing was impossible, doesn't mean it had to be the way they assumed it. I mean, the Wright brothers proved that. It's not exactly apples to apples, but the point stands I think. Having to reexamine a 45 year old line of dialogue in order to give a new series a little bit of leeway is not that big of a leap and I can't figure out why it's such a sticking point.

Edit: I forgot which crowd I was talking to. I definitely know why it's such a sticking point lol

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

Or was it settled in our minds already they had never met?...because the context clearly indicates...THEY NEVER MET.

Saying "because the context clearly indicates...THEY NEVER MET" is an opinion not a fact.

Also, in official LFL Star Wars canon, they did meet before ANH in the Kenobi tv show.

 

[Mottrex]

View attachment 1589258

That Loki gets Everywhere!..

 

[CopperRevan]

To me this reasoning doesn't hold water. Just because most people assumed a thing, or presumed a thing was impossible, doesn't mean it had to be the way they assumed it. I mean, the Wright brothers proved that. It's not exactly apples to apples, but the point stands I think. Having to reexamine a 45 year old line of dialogue in order to give a new series a little bit of leeway is not that big of a leap and I can't figure out why it's such a sticking point.

Edit: I forgot which crowd I was talking to. I definitely know why it's such a sticking point lol

Paul, i'm not assuming or presuming anything to the point of impossibilty...i'm saying, is it reasonable given the context or "more likely"? BTW, this is just one "sticking point" there are MANY. Heck, i do realize that Star Wars is fiction for crying out loud.

"your crowd" is willing to conjure up crazy possibilities with a LOT of assuming and a LOT of presuming and are willing to entertain ANY form of conjecture and believe that to be "more likely" than not. "my crowd"(as you are referring to) is solely basing our opinion on the context of the OT which HAPPENED already which is "more likely".( I mean not to speak for everyone of either "crowd" because it's unfair but to Paul's presumption).

Again, Disney is worried about things being predictable so they just do the opposite. "bet you weren't expecting that" "wow, what a twist!!" and it's just completely lazy imo. To proove it, i guarantee someone on this forum can come up with a better idea for ALL of us to enjoy equally that would make some sense even though i wish the series never happened. My son loves it. I enjoy his enjoyment of it but i'm also not 6. There are little nuggets in these series i think are interesting and cool but i'm not talking about the paint job on the car in this thread...i want to see something under the hood and so far i see one of those pull back engines on kids toys...you have to keep pulling it back to make it go and it doesn't go very far at all.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Basically, Leia is the Grogu of this series.

 

[v312]

That may also have been true for Lucas's intentions at the time ANH was made, before he actually had a lot of the rest of the story worked out. A lot of what we're all fussing over may well have initially been throwaway expository lines, that Lucas may never have intended to expand upon back then.

None of that changes the facts that Lucas did re-work his story as he went, throughout the OT and PT, and left plenty of loose ends to potentially tie up in ways that Lucas either never thought through, or never delivered upon if he did. The PT would seem to dictate a lot more than any of George's original intentions back in '76, that evolved and changed dramatically over the following 30 years. Lucas seems to get a pass for this, but Disney does not?

So, if that is how Leia's lines in ANH could be theoretically improved to better mesh with the Kenobi show that we got, the question becomes what story changes for the Kenobi show might have worked better for the actual lines that we got back in '77? Can you have young Leia meet Kenobi at all before ANH, or do those ANH lines preclude any such possibility, as some seem to be arguing?

It's just my opinion, I'm not trying to turn anyone to the dark side, but based on ANH alone and the message in particular it is not impossible that they've met in the past. Or that Obi-Wan instantly recognizes her in the message, because he's been watching the senate broadcasts on "TV" or whatever. I also don't see anything that suggests that he was on Tatooine the whole time.

However, if you are asking someone for help _again_ few years after that person helped you for something as important as saving your daughter while risking his own life and his jedi vow to "protect the boy" - it will be extremely disrespectful to not acknowledge that in your new request, instead building on the fact that he was serving you many years ago, like he never did anything important for you since then. (From the point of view of her father the king , as in the formal part of the message she speaks on his behalf)
As I've said in my previous post, when she personally begs for help at the end I don't see how she would not mention it.

So even if they met before, he certainly have not done anything significant for her, her family or the rebellion worth mentioning since he served her father in the clone wars.

If anyone is willing to give Disney a pass for it, because they liked the show or just like Disney for the other stuff they've done that's ok. But I don't.
And it's because they have all the resources to do it right, and they had endless options for an interesting plot for this show that does not contradict what was established in OT. I can't know how much thought George put into the contents of that message, but certainly it is not some random insignificant filler dialogue in ANH, it is essentially the base on which the whole story is built.

 

[Paul Andrew]

Paul, i'm not assuming or presuming anything to the point of impossibilty...i'm saying, is it reasonable given the context or "more likely"? BTW, this is just one "sticking point" there are MANY. Heck, i do realize that Star Wars is fiction for crying out loud.

"your crowd" is willing to conjure up crazy possibilities with a LOT of assuming and a LOT of presuming and are willing to entertain ANY form of conjecture and believe that to be "more likely" than not. "my crowd"(as you are referring to) is solely basing our opinion on the context of the OT which HAPPENED already which is "more likely".( I mean not to speak for everyone of either "crowd" because it's unfair but to Paul's presumption).

Again, Disney is worried about things being predictable so they just do the opposite. "bet you weren't expecting that" "wow, what a twist!!" and it's just completely lazy imo. To proove it, i guarantee someone on this forum can come up with a better idea for ALL of us to enjoy equally that would make some sense even though i wish the series never happened. My son loves it. I enjoy his enjoyment of it but i'm also not 6. There are little nuggets in these series i think are interesting and cool but i'm not talking about the paint job on the car in this thread...i want to see something under the hood and so far i see one of those pull back engines on kids toys...you have to keep pulling it back to make it go and it doesn't go very far at all.

The only crowd I meant was the hardcore RPF crowd, which generally leans in the direction of ANH being the next thing to holy scripture.

 

[Picard102]

There were discussions long before Kenobi debating if they knew each other.
It was not a universally accepted fact or likelihood that they had or hadn't, and there are certainly arguments that cut both ways.

 

[Jamesfett]

Over on the Obi Prop/Costume thread I went on a rant responding to a comment and forgot it was just the prop/costume thread, so I am putting it here where it belongs.

BTW this show sucks.

I am also very old school. It's only O.T. for me. The rest is no longer of any interest. Maybe Mando, but doubtful.

People seem to be forgetting how bad the Prequels were and how much over 90% of people hated them. How much they contradicted the O.T.. How Anakin turned evil because,......I can't remember. Why again. (Rhetorical question)

With few exceptions people hated what G.L did and were thrilled that he gave it to Disney. He even said that is one of the reasons he sold it. Disney screwed the pooch so pad people are missing G.L. but Disney's garbage does not make George's garbage better.

Lighting was captured in a bottle once. It just can't happen again.


If you like it, enjoy. For me it ended with Yub nub, as I have said.

I will watch the last episode, but I am done after that. Mando maybe depending on what is said after it airs as I did enjoy it but that's it. None of this other stuff.

Make Darth Vader a whinny teenage bitch. Check

Make him have a creepy romance with Luke and Leia's mom. Check.

Turn evil for no reason other than being a gullible punk. Check.

Murders children ten minutes after being a good guy. Check.

Learn nothing about Obi Wan after six hours of prequel movies. Check

Destroy Luke and Han. Check

Turn Leia into a ridiculous Mary Poppins. Check.

Piss on everything accomplished in the O.T. Check.

Destroy Boba Fett. Check.

Destroy Obi Wan. Check

Fudge up any sense of continuity left in the thing. Check

Destroy Vader. Check

You see my point.

 

[Psab keel]

To me the bigger problem is Bail Organa and by extension Kenobi himself. So Bail fails to keep bodyguards/ private security around Leia and then she gets kidnapped. He then pulls Kenobi away from keeping an eye on Luke. What is Bail doing that he couldn't go after his own daughter himself? So the best solution is to leave Luke vulnerable too? That's not just a silly story point, but actually damages the intelligence of both characters and by extension diminishes the importance of Kenobi's mission to watch Luke if he's willing to go planet hopping because Bail couldn't keep his side of the deal. Even setting aside any inconsistencies between this show with the two trilogies of films that preceeded this series (which I think is a really disengenuous stance because without them this TV show wouldn't exist) these caretakers are really terrible at their mission.

The only crowd I meant was the hardcore RPF crowd, which generally leans in the direction of ANH being the next thing to holy scripture.

It's not just the hardcore RPF crowd that regards the original Star Wars as one of the greatest films of all time. It literally changed everything. The sole reason why fans have had to overstate its impact in recent years is because there's a concerted effort to undermine it by fans who use that as a lame excuse to justify weak writing of the new stories. Notice how the default response to any observation of weak writing is to instantly try and discredit the originals.

Stop saying things like, well it's not Citizen Kane. How many people obsess over and make props from that movie? How many people dress up like Orson Wells? Star Wars is the very best of its genre. Acting as if that's not important begs the question as to why you love it so much if it's just "stupid."

 

[Jamesfett]

Seriously I have said it before. We are like an abused spouse hoping they won't hit us this time, and each time they beat us worse than the last.

I am taking one more beating Wednesday and then I am going to the shelter and changing my name because my abusive spouse, Lucasfilm, will not change.

 

[Paul Andrew]

It's not just the hardcore RPF crowd that regards the original Star Wars as one of the greatest films of all time. It literally changed everything. The sole reason why fans have had to overstate its impact in recent years is because there's a concerted effort to undermine it by fans who use that as a lame excuse to justify weak writing of the new stories. Notice how the default response to any observation of weak writing is to instantly try and discredit the originals.

No argument from me, ANH helped usher in a new era of filmmaking and deserves its kudos.

I don't know about discrediting the OT though. In my view it's more like trying to show that a lot of the same nonsense people gripe about in the new shows existed in the old movies too. Not to take anything away from those movies, just to say "Hey, these things we love got passes for all this same stuff, why the hate for the new?"

 

[Psab keel]

Hate for the new exists because it was done far better in the originals. They're the benchmark and their contradictions were minimal at best. If that isn't true then why has everything since chased after their success?

Had the new stories gone elsewhere instead of constantly calling back the legacy stories and this could have all been avoided.

 

[edge10]

Hate for the new exists because it was done far better in the originals. They're the benchmark and their contradictions were minimal at best. If that isn't true then why has everything since chased after their success?

Had the new stories gone elsewhere instead of constantly calling back the legacy stories and this could have all been avoided.

They would have had to hire competent writers and have a story they wanted to tell. Not just pump out content, as fast as they can, to make a buck.

 

[Picard102]

Shame they can't just go back to writers who can copy Joseph Campbell or Akira Kurosawa.

 

[Psab keel]

At least they understood worked and what didn't. No one "copied" Campbell. He wrote a guide to understanding myths. Not a novel. If Lucas copied Campbell's work then nearly every single film that's been a mega success ripped him off too.