Its like something out of Airplane or Top Secret.
Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
True.
He basically used his hatred to keep him alive, rebuilt part of his body with scraps, nearly went insane, then was rescued by his brother and renewed by the Witches of Dathomir. After that, he had maybe the best story of anyone post-PT, briefly ruling Mandalore, leading a criminal syndicate, continuing to go after and battle Obi-Wan, and much more.
It sounds silly, but there have been stories with Vader healing his body temporarily by using his hatred and anger. Essentially using the dark side to do things we'd deem impossible. I like the concept of doing unnatural things through the dark side.
I saw a video on Youtube tonight where three people were talking about this show and how they will handle Obi-Wan going off planet and Vader. This, IMO, is the best case scenario and could actually work. What they said is that Obi-Wan already knows that Anakin's Sith title is Vader from the Temple surveillance video. So if he still doesn't know Anakin survived at the point of this show, say he overhears the Inquisitors say something like "Inform Lord Vader..." and he goes "Holy *#%* Anakin is still alive!" That could cause him to leave to either make one last ditch attempt to redeem Anakin or finish the job. That gives us the Obi-Wan Vader fight that Disney can't wait to film.
Now I'd say that would be acceptable. It's like falling on the rail on your bike and just clipping your testicles. You get the pain, but it's not full on black belt front kicking you full force in the junk, puking in the bushes canon damage.
Not to mention, Obi-Wan, from what Ewan is saying, goes from being completely demoralized in this show, and then in ANH he's like "Let's go take these guys out!" Something like this might bridge the gap because he goes from feeling sorry for Anakin at some point to "He's more machine now than man..." and sees him as completely lost. Not to mention when he confronts Vader in ANH he's not surprised by how he looks, he's just like "Hey dude!" Having something like above happen would almost make sense because of how Obi-Wan, in ANH, is not shocked by his appearance.
Now the question is, is Disney that smart? I don't give them much credit at this point.
Now I'd say that would be acceptable. It's like falling on the rail on your bike and just clipping your testicles. You get the pain, but it's not full on black belt front kicking you full force in the junk, puking in the bushes canon damage.
Not to mention, Obi-Wan, from what Ewan is saying, goes from being completely demoralized in this show, and then in ANH he's like "Let's go take these guys out!" Something like this might bridge the gap because he goes from feeling sorry for Anakin at some point to "He's more machine now than man..." and sees him as completely lost. Not to mention when he confronts Vader in ANH he's not surprised by how he looks, he's just like "Hey dude!" Having something like above happen would almost make sense because of how Obi-Wan, in ANH, is not shocked by his appearance.Now the question is, is Disney that smart? I don't give them much credit at this point.
CT1138
Sr Member
Eh, I'm more cynical than that. They know what they produce is mediocre with moments of greatness at best, but the bottom line comes first. Why put top dollar into a product when you can put the bare minimum in and still get record-breaking returns? We fans can sit here all day with shoulda/coulda, but at the end of the day it's will or won't that matters.
I'm officially deflated. You win.
Riceball
Master Member
You're assuming that prosthetics have improved massively in durability over the years. That may or may not be the case, improvements could easily have been in shelf life, the time it takes to cure, how thin it can be made, etc. There's no guarantee that it's gotten that much more durable.
Even if prosthetics have gotten sturdier and more durable it doesn't necessarily mean that they've gotten so sturdy that making long lekku that would stand up to the rigors of stunt work in a TV show without having to be constantly fixed or replaced. Shooting one 5 - 10 minute dance scene in one movie is different from shooting multiple 5- 10 minute action scenes over the course of several episodes.
Riceball
Master Member
Well, at the end of the day that's what every TV/.movie studio out there that's not an art studio is here for. The individual people involved with the productions might be looking at these movies and shows as an art project, but the studio heads are looking at it from a financial perspective because they're only green lighting these projects to make money, because, you know, these studios are in the business of making money, not art. And it's a standard across almost all industries, you try to spend the least amount of money possible so that you can maximize your returns; there's no sense in throwing extra money at something if it isn't going to make an appreciable greater amount of money. Not to mention that TV shows and movies aren't like restaurants and manufacturing where extra costs going into the food or product can be just passed along to the diner or client/customer. This is especially true for a streaming service, there are no commercials so they can't charge more for air time for anybody who wants to air a commercial on their station/service. They could raise the price of subscriptions but if they did that every time they wanted to spend just a bit more on each project people are going to get fed up and start canceling their subscriptions. So it's not as easy as just saying spend more.
Joek3rr
Master Member
When did Kathleen start writing? Is she directing now too?
Joek3rr
Master Member
Never watch the credits for The Mandalorian.....
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
Those at the top of a corporation, (especially the president or CEO) are responsible for everything that their subordinates do especially those they directly over see. KK is responsible for literally everything that happens at Lucasfilm, every piece of content they put out. Although she may not be writing or directing the content herselfIf she is still entirely accountable.
All fans want is to feel that their money is being well spent. They'll happily pay for whatever is being offered if they feel they're getting the full value of their dollar. What makes Lucasfilm's creative decisions so frustrating to a lot of people is that with all the resources available to them it's astonishing that the writing is so atrocious and proves without any doubt that all the money in the world can't save a bad idea. No one is against a company making money if it makes a good product. The net effect of making a great movie is that it creates repeat customers which helps business by increasing sales for sequels and merchandise. Even from a business perspective it makes fiscal sense to trust good writing. Besides, the choices a studio makes does not reflect a failure on the part of the audience to embrace what is presented to them. The last I checked they work for us, not the other way around. I don't work in the film business. I don't see how the onus of the success of a movie or show is always placed on the fans and not the people who made the show.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Which kinda my point. Kathleen (particularly being the Executive Producer) is behind everything at Lucasfilm. Both the (subjectively) "good" and "bad." Credit (or blame) where credit is due.
Though it does raise an interesting question, who was behind the other Star Wars films? George Lucas right? Yet he wasn't the president of Lucasfilm. Just a weird thought.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
Ehh... From what I've heard, criticism aside, KK likes to force her foot in the door on a lot of things. Will be interesting to see how this effects the end product if true. I'm also curious if the original script will leak online, if it hasn't already.
Kathleen Kennedy Rejected 'Kenobi' Script, Was Too "Bleak" For 'Star Wars'
Kathleen Kennedy revealed that she had rejected the first script because it was too "bleak" for Star Wars as the show needed more hope.
SOOOOOO I've proposed this question before regarding StarWars, especially ever since Disney took over.... and maybe its better suited to the general StarWars thread, but its related to this....
What BAD actually happened under the Galactic Empire? like when compared to the Old Republic that makes it such a time of suffering? Like besides order 66 killing all the people with shiny swords and religious superhero powers and dead younglings. And I mean in the film media itself, not any tertiary marvel comic slop... At the moment, its seemingly really just dead Aunt and Uncle, Alderaan being blown all to hell, The Battle of Hoth and Cloud City being taken over, yeah??
Reason I say this is Disney, with the help of Dave Filoni in the preceding years, tend to present the Empire, and especially Stormies, as otherwise incompetent and or barely able to put 2 +2 together.. Its a trend that I absolutely despise, because idiots don't take over the goddamn galaxy.... It just doesn't happen.. They're criminally smart, calculating and deadly...
Thrawn, as hes presented in Rebels for example, should be the STANDARD of inteligence for the Imperial Officers. And Thrawn himself leagues beyond that...
How the Empire is presented in current StarWars really almost has a backfire effect on itself in its own somewhat virtue signaling manner. The hero's are intelligent and overcome through no other means than they believe in 'the good', while the bad guys are bumping into each other or make idiotic calls because they believe in 'the bad', and only idiots would ever believe in 'the bad'. In the end the hero's never really struggle or learn, and their powers or strengths never feel earned or their character arcs that relatable. Its something that ended up plaguing the sequel trilogy to the point that the only reason that TLJ's "story" even happens is because the bad guys weirdly deliberately choose to shoot at an empty base on a planet that can’t even go anywhere, rather than the helpless ship full of targets in front of them.... It's insane.
edit: This is going to get me into a 'Stormies actually do aim well in the OT, they're just under strict orders from a guy who will murder them to let our Heros go, or to capture them alive to help Vader turn Luke to the dark side... Its right in the damn movies!' rant
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My career is in medicine. And even there, the bottom line often is... the bottom line. To paraphrase Palps: " [you must] do what must be done" Productivity is a HUGE component of your overall performance evaluation. It's how high-functioning jerks stay in their roles of leadership in many businesses.
My take has always been that over time the returns are always going to diminish if the end product doesn't grab audiences. People might keep buying for a while out of loyalty, but there will come a point when the result isn't worth watching. In turn they won't buy the merchandise. They won't bother to show it to their kids. If you make a good product it will sell. Period. That means writing stories worth watching. Let's face it. This franchise may have been born with our generation, but it could very well fade into obscurity with us too if it carries on the way it has. The price of the merchandise climbs while sales drop off, fans get jaded about the direction of the stories. It's really time for those in charge to either bring in new talent or start recognizing the talent of the few within Lucasfilm who seem to have a clue about what works with Star Wars.
I recognize that foreign markets play a huge part and that there is a large fanbase for some of the new material, but ultimately even those markets are competing with other tentpoles which have an arguably larger fanbase with a far more consistent track record, ie. Marvel. They may well leave Star Wars in the dust. There are ways to salvage the disconnect between fans and the series and that starts with writing new stories with new characters and to develop them rather than introduce more into the story every five minutes. Until they do that they're only buying themselves time.
I recognize that foreign markets play a huge part and that there is a large fanbase for some of the new material, but ultimately even those markets are competing with other tentpoles which have an arguably larger fanbase with a far more consistent track record, ie. Marvel. They may well leave Star Wars in the dust. There are ways to salvage the disconnect between fans and the series and that starts with writing new stories with new characters and to develop them rather than introduce more into the story every five minutes. Until they do that they're only buying themselves time.
It should be, I feel, about recognizing the value of the slow burn over the lightning strike. Star Wars (the original film by that name, I mean) managed to do both -- made bank and slipped under everyone's radar. I've seen quite a few stories about people who went back at least once a week the whole summer of '77 to watch it over and over. A decent chunk of its box-office was repeat viewings, rather than a bunch of people seeing it once opening weekend and done. But this was also before multiplexes and Hollywood's output was much less. A strongly-performing movie could stay at a theater all summer and be the only thing showing.
Films like Tron and Blade Runner failed to get the initial box-office success of Star Wars, and didn't impact the zeitgeist of at least an entire country, but they persisted in people's consciousness and grew in popularity over time. Star Wars managed to do the impossible, and managed the same thing with a sequel that was stronger than the original. The impact was essentially the same slow burn as "cult" films, but starting from a much higher level of initial success. The merchandizing didn't hurt. It has fascinated me -- and made me cringe -- how, say, toy manufacturers still haven't figured out what properties to make action figures for, and which ones not. And then, after it had seemingly gone away by the late '80s, SURPRISE! Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire and the revival of the Power of the Force action figure line with new sculpts of the original twelve figures from '78, and the Star Wars Renaissance was off and running.
But what no one running Star Wars ever seems to have gotten is that it's compelling characters and stories, mixed with striking audiovisual presentation, that makes for a cult classic, the slow burn that keeps people coming back over and over, while gradually drawing in new audiences over time. The surge of popularity and sales every time a new "wave" of Star Wars comes out is like addicts chasing the first high. It'll never be as good as the first time, whether that was the summer of '77 or the winter of '97 or the fall of '07 (I tried, but Clone Wars wouldn't be out for another year), but if it's good, it'll be worth it. That last bit is the key part. There have been bits of everything from Heir to the Empire on that were good. But there have been bits that don't work, or, worse, clash with the original films that they're supposed to hew to.
It's like going back to your favorite restaurant, but the chef has retired. Someone new is trying to make the same dishes you've always loved, but it's... off. Some people keep going, some people are new and never knew what it was before, but you can only take so much disappointment before one day you think about going there to eat, and then shrug and say "nah". I know you already hit that point, Nathan, but stay in these discussions out of your undying love for what it was. It might never be as good as the first time, but a bit more effort going into understanding why Star Wars and Empire tend to still be many viewers favorites -- even if they only started watching Star Wars last year -- wouldn't be amiss. Don't just try to replicate the recipe you don't understand -- figure out what each of the elements was and why they worked together. And I don't know anyone running things at LFL ever has.
Films like Tron and Blade Runner failed to get the initial box-office success of Star Wars, and didn't impact the zeitgeist of at least an entire country, but they persisted in people's consciousness and grew in popularity over time. Star Wars managed to do the impossible, and managed the same thing with a sequel that was stronger than the original. The impact was essentially the same slow burn as "cult" films, but starting from a much higher level of initial success. The merchandizing didn't hurt. It has fascinated me -- and made me cringe -- how, say, toy manufacturers still haven't figured out what properties to make action figures for, and which ones not. And then, after it had seemingly gone away by the late '80s, SURPRISE! Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire and the revival of the Power of the Force action figure line with new sculpts of the original twelve figures from '78, and the Star Wars Renaissance was off and running.
But what no one running Star Wars ever seems to have gotten is that it's compelling characters and stories, mixed with striking audiovisual presentation, that makes for a cult classic, the slow burn that keeps people coming back over and over, while gradually drawing in new audiences over time. The surge of popularity and sales every time a new "wave" of Star Wars comes out is like addicts chasing the first high. It'll never be as good as the first time, whether that was the summer of '77 or the winter of '97 or the fall of '07 (I tried, but Clone Wars wouldn't be out for another year), but if it's good, it'll be worth it. That last bit is the key part. There have been bits of everything from Heir to the Empire on that were good. But there have been bits that don't work, or, worse, clash with the original films that they're supposed to hew to.
It's like going back to your favorite restaurant, but the chef has retired. Someone new is trying to make the same dishes you've always loved, but it's... off. Some people keep going, some people are new and never knew what it was before, but you can only take so much disappointment before one day you think about going there to eat, and then shrug and say "nah". I know you already hit that point, Nathan, but stay in these discussions out of your undying love for what it was. It might never be as good as the first time, but a bit more effort going into understanding why Star Wars and Empire tend to still be many viewers favorites -- even if they only started watching Star Wars last year -- wouldn't be amiss. Don't just try to replicate the recipe you don't understand -- figure out what each of the elements was and why they worked together. And I don't know anyone running things at LFL ever has.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I'm not even sure what's that supposed to mean. She's the Executive Producer on everything. It's not like she's some suit sitting up in an office that descends with stupid mandates and doesn't know jack about filmmaking.
And if the rumors are true, the rewriting of the script came after input from Filoni and Favreau.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
Oh trust me, some of the stories i hear from my nursing friends would turn you white… or maybe red with rage.. Incompetent “doctors” killing patients and/or then getting shifted onto different hospitals etc with no repercussion.. but i feel thats as much a result of the corporate way hospitals and the like are run today, enabling that as a nigh “norm” as much as it is the incompetent individuals themselves.
The Galactic Empire on the other hand i view almost as entirely a military in its structuring and organization from what we see in the films. They ARE the cold and ruthless fist who “keep the other systems in line”, eventually forming that core concept into the physical creation of the Death Star. Thats not to say militaries don’t have their share of fools, or even fools in positions of power.. but they’re generally outliers by comparison because the system itself usually has a means of weeding them out through necessity (Admiral Ozzel for instance).
Disney and Filoni, on the otherhand tend to deliberately present the entire system as inherently incompetent, which is something the OT’s writing was careful to never really do
Again Filoni and Favreau aren’t much better at this point. They’re becoming one-trick-poneys exceptionally quick, especially given Book of Boba Fett
But yeah from those ive talked to who’ve had the pleasure of conversing with KK, she has an extreme disconnect from reality, and or harsh realities, and it eventually comes through in that end product, be it film, merchandising or what have you
Ive never really understood Filoni being seen as “the savior of StarWars” like hes sometimes called either.. Hes really just the first and only StarWars fanfiction wannabe cowboy writer they let have the reins.
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