HMSwolfe
Master Member
That’s been my thinking. A prison break wouldn’t necessarily be considered rebel activity unless there was evidence to suggest they had outside help.
Star Wars Andor (Disney+ TV series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
But that is often how prison breaks occur, with outside help. It would be natural for the ISB to search for potential connections to unrest elsewhere with a major prison break.
If the break is unknown to the ISB they're really really not doing their job well at all. That could be part of the angle that Gilroy is playing, the overconfident Empire. I kind of suspect that the break is going to be addressed in season 2 and that the ISB will find out about it the same way the general public does which will be another wake up call that they need to step up their game.
Picture this.
After the Ferrix incident Lt. Meero is forced to separate from the ISB. Friendless, destitute with nowhere else to turn she is forced to move in with Syril and his mum. Syril is still trying to woo Dedra with his zany antics and wishes mum would approve but, under the same roof in a small apartment in lower Coruscant, these two women, with nothing in common, do not see eye to eye on anything. What's a guy supposed to do? Find out in "My Two Moms" Friday at 8:00 PST
After the Ferrix incident Lt. Meero is forced to separate from the ISB. Friendless, destitute with nowhere else to turn she is forced to move in with Syril and his mum. Syril is still trying to woo Dedra with his zany antics and wishes mum would approve but, under the same roof in a small apartment in lower Coruscant, these two women, with nothing in common, do not see eye to eye on anything. What's a guy supposed to do? Find out in "My Two Moms" Friday at 8:00 PST
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Riceball
Master Member
I'd argue differently. The ISB obviously covers a lot of territory and they're an intelligence agency, they're not going to concern themselves with a prison break unless it's a special prison specifically for political prisoners of all sorts. This was a run-of-the-mill criminal prison and likely run by a bureau with no connection whatsoever to the ISB. The ISB getting involved would be like the FBI or the CIA getting involved in a breakout in a county prison, they're not going to get involved unless asked because prison breaks do not fall under their purview and they have bigger things to deal with. And with the Imperial bureaucracy seemingly similar to the way Nazi Germany was run, I doubt that whoever heads up the Imperial prison bureau is going to want word to get out about what's going on in their little fiefdom and risk losing face to a rival or worse yet, lose power/authority over their little fiefdom.
CopperRevan
Master Member
Pardon me for chiming in again but Dedra has her radar on more Rebel activity than most of the other officers and even before she had personal knowledge of Andor possibly being complicit, the bolo was already out on him...what, they have all the technology in the universe to spread his mug throughout the whole galaxy and build a Death Star but Alcatraz has no facial recognition system to be able to find him? I mean, he changed his name, big deal...people do it all the time. Everything to me seems very well tidy and coincidental to try to make everything work( like , oh an escape pod just sitting there seated for two...the same amount of people as the owners) and make sense but it doesn't. As soon as that point is brought to the surface all of a sudden everyone comes out of the woodwork that has theories why they wrote it that way that makes Mike Zeroh's theories sound believable. If we have to stretch and surmise everything to explain any inconsistencies then maybe we should chalk it up to "they made a mistake"...That is more believable and acceptable to me as answers.
RodanAZ
Well-Known Member
I think one of the things we're expected to accept in the SW universe is that while they have FTL space travel, blasters and laser swords, they don't have the level of surveillance or identification technology that exists here today in our world. Much of it didn't exist in the 1970s when SW originated, so it was never part of the landscape. Just one of the suspensions of disbelief we have to live with to enjoy the storytelling. If I can live with anti-grav and laser swords, I think I can deal with it. It's much easier to accept that detail than some of the writing in the other series/films.
CopperRevan
Master Member
wait...they sent holographic mug shots all over...Holographic funeral speeches, but yeah...you're right, totally inconceivable they could locate him in an Empire Prison facility based on a facial scan when...oh yeah, the Empire sent out his facial scan already.
....or maybe the Empire is really disorganized more than we all think.
....or maybe the Empire is really disorganized more than we all think.
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There's nothing wrong with conjuring rationalizations to explain apparent inconsistencies so long as they are plausible within the context of the established setting. "Plausibility" is usually the point of contention. A rationale need not be dismissed simply because it wasn't witnessed so as long as the proposal is consistent with the setting or situation. e.g. If Syril walks through level 1313 and suddenly finds his cash missing it is not unreasonable to presume that he was pickpocketed. It is plausible even if you didn't actually see it happen.
Here is the setting of Andor. Remember that Aldhani was such an inconceivable affront to the Empire (by design) the Empire was provoked to instantly go into tyranny mode (which is what Luthen was banking on) in the form of PORD.
PORD was implemented literally overnight. As a result, in an instant, across an entire galaxy, prison sentences were multiplied, prison releases were cancelled, incarceration of a larger body of "the usual suspects" sought any excuses for arrest (e.g. Cassian was loitering while adding false charges), the legal system was abbreviated to where the accused lost all rights and was instantly sentenced. The load of cases that just got dumped on the system was astronomical.
We saw this depicted in the crowded processing center where Cassian went after his arrest. He was even expecting some form of appeal process but, instead, was simply sentenced and ushered off to incarceration. You get the sense of a system that is overloaded and struggling to keep up with the sheer volume of cases.
So, under normal circumstances the Empire might have run his profile to bio-ID him, then cross reference through some galactic database. However, the writer took great lengths to show us these are not normal circumstances and that we are looking at systems operating in crisis mode. I can see how they might have to abbreviate the process because of it. Seemingly a person can go from citizen to suspect to inmate in less than 24 hours.
Presumably the Empire would eventually ramp up construction for bigger/better processing facilities but that doesn't happen overnight. I would think that higher security prisons would be prioritized to get the bulk of resources and support up front before the other prisons do. Given the nature of Cassian's crimes I think we can assume that Narkina 5 isn't maximum security. We see it is understaffed and probably some correctional officers may have been reallocated to other higher priority prisons.
In response to PORD the Empire is probably ramping up the facilities, equipment and staffing but, until then, local jurisdictions will do what they can to keep things running and prevent backlog. And the resources would appropriately go towards the higher-level prisons. And until the infrastructure is built, a lot of inmates simply aren't going to get a comprehensive vetting. In a lower level-type prison that's probably a safe temporary tradeoff, as far as the Empire is concerned.
In a vast galaxy of thousands of worlds spanning light-years it is tough enough trying to communicate, much less synchronize the database for millions of criminals on a routine basis. The same system under stress is going to be even worse. I'm just making a case for why I think it's plausible that Cassian wasn't ID'd. It's still your prerogative to think it's contrived.
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CopperRevan
Master Member
That makes more sense...like when Leia said to Grand Moff Tarkan, (paraphrasing) "The tighter you grip the more that slips through your fingers" I will buy that reasoning for now but the convenient escape pod that just happened to be there so they could leave...nope. lol
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Finished the show last night. Easily the best Star Wars has been on TV, and some of the best since the transfer to Disney. That's all I have to say.
I've been reading and hearing a lot of comments from people saying that this show didn't feel like SW. The look (I'm torn on the look of the prison) of the show is SW, more so than the Sequels IMO. I think what these people are trying to say is the pacing or maybe that it's showing regular cities and not the military stuff or high importance locations they're used to seeing. I think overall it's probably the pacing as Lucas has been shown in the documentaries numerous times saying "Again, but faster." So if you're expecting the latter, this might feel off.
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
I guess I assumed that because the charges against Cassian were inflated, his sentence was ridiculous and that prison seemed like overkill for "run of the mill" crimes that he was placed in a higher security facility more akin to federal prison than a county jail. I don't recall a moment where the facility was identified as a lower tier prison or other inmates had discussed their crimes but I may have entirely missed that. If it is indeed a common prison then yes what you said entirely makes sense.
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robstyle
Master Member
The prison escape issue, it was simply covered up, reported as a facility wide power malfunction and all inmates and a large percentage of guards perished in the accident. This would mean the surrounding facilities need to up their daily quotas as the facility in question is repopulated and brought back online to full production.
I think that's already been somewhat explained by the entire shift being fried that kicked it all off, backed by the security boss guy from the first episode dictating a cover up be done, various speaches about the empire doing what they do...
If I had to guess it will likely be mentioned second season when ISB girl gets information by another of Andors escaped on program team looking for a cash bounty with information on Andors location. She's the only character that needs to know.
I think that's already been somewhat explained by the entire shift being fried that kicked it all off, backed by the security boss guy from the first episode dictating a cover up be done, various speaches about the empire doing what they do...
If I had to guess it will likely be mentioned second season when ISB girl gets information by another of Andors escaped on program team looking for a cash bounty with information on Andors location. She's the only character that needs to know.
modelcitizen
Sr Member
yeah we all have our own idea of what good writing is i reckon.
my original point beyond this off topic tangent was the "bad writing" accusation for ANDOR only was misguided due to "bad reading".
im not concerned with the obviously bad writing of the other disney shows, movies or the eu which i couldn't stomach even back in the day.
mothma was supplying money to luthen, not the other way around.
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joberg
Legendary Member
It's not unusual for huge organizations to withheld information. Information is power especially when you're the only one having such information!
To go through the enormous Empire's bureaucracy must be daunting at best...and the prison location might be one way for its Super-Intendant to take control of the situation and not push the alarm button going to the top. Deal with it locally and internally; no need to alert the big wigs...besides; they have bigger things to fry
It would be a great scene to show Dedra learning that they had Cassian into custody already and that he escaped the facility and was one of the major leader organizing the whole riot!
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CopperRevan
Master Member
well that's my point...it might seem great to "not alert the big wigs" until the big wigs find out that you should have alerted them...now you're in the prison facility for the rest of your life on the other end. I would have thought they'd show how much people within their own empire feared those above them. Isn't that the point as to why they have eye's and ears all over the place? To quash any rebellion inside or out?
Don't forget where we are at in the timeline. There is no real unified "rebellion" yet and the Empire doesn't consider it a realistic threat. At best they might recognize random pockets of rebellious behavior. Dedra Meero even has to fight to convince her superiors that there is even evidence of coordinated subversive activity.
CopperRevan
Master Member
right, but it's not about how unified a rebellion is at this point, it's about instilling as much fear as possible from the Empires viewpoint so any thought of a rebellion could be squashed before it even begins. If entities within the Empire won't fear reprecussions from not forwarding information then what does that say to their strength and how they'd appear to a possible rebellion? It's simply counterproductive. Having guys like Andor continuing to make them look stupid and ineffective does nothing for their cause. If they can't get accountibilty then they're done before they even begin. I just thought that by this time(since order 66 had already begun) that the Empire would be more unified than they are by this point and how inefficient and stupid they really look. That takes the fear effect away then doesn't it? Unless this is being done on purpose to set up the Death Star. In other words, once word gets around they have power enough to blow up a whole planet, fear has set in to the core.
For me, writing has to go 100% both ways in this. The enemy has to appear to be unbeatable( resistance is futile...sorry for the Borg plug). The Rebels have to suffer immensly and them escaping situations can't appear to look haphazardly easy. With that being said, they have to succeed at something to build momentum..i get it. But Andor defies more odds alone than any i've seen in a super hero and he's just an ordinary guy with an axe to grind. I mean, if he were in WWII he would have joined the army, beat the Navy on his way to Germany, fought off Great white sharks, stormed Berlin and found Hitler himself and got him in a double arm bar and made him tap out, and ended the war himself...lol
I agree completely that it is in the Empire's interest to maintain the perception of omnipotence as a prophylaxis against dissent. As you say, "Having guys like Andor continuing to make them look stupid and ineffective does nothing for their cause." And, if the Empire was a monolithic entity, it would most certainly be more thorough and systematic about maintaining actual order, but it is established from the start that the Empire, at just about every level, is really a conglomerate of dissimilar interests each principally focused on self-preservation within the status quo. That situation is not unprecedented. It's been the downfall of systems in the past and will be the downfall of the Empire. That is one of the themes of Andor.
You are correct that it is not beneficial in the long run for the Empire to sweep any crime under the rug. On the macro level Palpatine would not be happy to know that any of that was going on.
It is the unfortunate nature of tyranny that puts middle management, like Partagaz, in a catch-22. Yes, if he is caught willfully ignoring a brewing situation he would certainly be in trouble. On the other hand, if Partagaz investigates the case, then the longer it remains unresolved the more it will start reflecting on his professional competence (especially if the pursuit requires more and more resources) whether it's justified or not. I think it was episode 7 where Dedra Meero presents her case for surveillance of Ferrix. Look at how the top brass reacts almost with disgust and certainly with tepid interest to her "wish list" of tech and manpower.
And when Syril first decided to look for Cassian was he recognized for his initiative in the end? Nope. He got the whole region subsumed under Imperial authority. Syril's more experienced superior knew it would have been better for them to have kept the crime covered up than to attract attention from the Empire.
Perhaps it is better to say that rigorous enforcement and investigation is beneficial for the Empire, but treacherous for the officers and entities that function within the Empire. Ultimately they are the ones who make the decisions. This is the major weakness of the Empire that Luthen has built a life around exploiting by keeping activity dispersed at a low level.
I don't see this as Cassian having an unusual amount of plot armor. I don't think he's the only one getting away with stuff. Local officials do not care to see the big picture and can't even imagine how great the consequences might be for letting things slide. But, they can certainly imagine some of the negative consequences of drawing attention.
Heck, if I was an imperial officer I'm not going to be that ambitious guy who steps up with a brilliant plan only to get choked out by Vader when he's looking for someone to pin failure on. I'm going to be one of the hundreds of officers quietly pushing greeblies in the background until retirement.
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