Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)

I'm not talking about waiting around for 100 years till it becomes a problem. I'm talking about dealing with it now before it becomes one. How would our crew destroy an entire sun without red matter on the other side of the Romulan Neutral Zone without being being caught? And if they're caught, how do they justify their mission to destroy a sun to the Romulans when they would like nothing more than a reason to go to war with the Federation? The only proof that Kirk has are the memories of Spock Prime. How does that not make for a potentially interesting story that could take Star Trek in a new direction?

Because where's the villain? How do you know that there's not more red matter? Why would they need to not be caught, why wouldn't Starfleet just reach out to the Romulan Empire in the nature and spirit of cooperation?

Fine, if you don't like the Khan plot line, fair enough. But your supposedly "better" alternative has holes. You're basically dealing with the same problem as the first movie.

More to the point, a hypothetically "better" story isn't a cogent reason for arguing that putting the Klingons in, is somehow "bad" story progression.
 
Because where's the villain? How do you know that there's not more red matter? Why would they need to not be caught, why wouldn't Starfleet just reach out to the Romulan Empire in the nature and spirit of cooperation?

I don't know. That's why I said:
"How does that not make for a potentially interesting story that could take Star Trek in a new direction?
Maybe there isn't a villain in this kind of story, only obstacles. Maybe the crew need to find a way to recreate Red Matter while at the same time not letting the knowledge of it come into the hands of others. Maybe Starfleet could actually work something out with the Romulans. And if you really want a villain, you could have someone who doesn't want the Romulan and Federation working together. Those are all interesting ideas that I would like to explore.
 
I'm not talking about waiting around for 100 years till it becomes a problem. I'm talking about dealing with it now before it becomes one. How would our crew destroy an entire sun without red matter on the other side of the Romulan Neutral Zone without being being caught? And if they're caught, how do they justify their mission to destroy a sun to the Romulans when they would like nothing more than a reason to go to war with the Federation? The only proof that Kirk has are the memories of Spock Prime. How does that not make for a potentially interesting story that could take Star Trek in a new direction?

While I don't disagree that this could potentially be an interesting story progression, a couple of points:

1. At one point your argument against the new Trek was the reliance on putting Earth in peril. Likewise, a similar argument would be against putting the crew of the Enterprise at the center of every significant problem. If it becomes a small stage to have Earth always the center of attention, it is equally small to assume that the Enterprise crew are the only ones who can deal with any crisis.

Which leads to...

2. Who is to say the problem is not being worked on? We know it isn't an immediate concern, so why does it have to be addressed by the main characters in the second movie? So even if it did make sense from a story standpoint to involve the Enterprise crew, why would they need to be involved now?
 
I'm a 54-year old fan whose favorite TV show has always been TOS over any other Trek series-or movie. I saw the movie with my 15-year-old son. I don't know who enjoyed the movie more, he or I. That's two generations coming together to thoroughly enjoy Trek! We were both glued to our seats for 2 hours and 12 minutes. I was blown away by everything on the screen: the tongue-in-cheek story, the well-known heroes so faithfully re-created for us "original" fans, the mind-blowing special effects to snare the fans to follow. I laughed and cried, cheered and clapped. I gasped with surprise and nodded with satisfaction.

There will always be JJ-detractors who would think us easy JJ-targets, or lazy JJ-thinkers, or mindless JJ-cattle or JJ-shills.

What I am is very happy and appreciative that JJ Abrams is making Star Trek movies and Star Trek ships. Nothing takes away from my enjoyment of the continuing voyages. That's enough for me-and my son.

I believe JJ Abrams' bumper sticker reads: 'You can never please 'em all.' Fortunately for the future of the Star Trek franchise, no one expects he has to.

I'm sure JJ Abrams right about now is rightfully feeling much like Roy Scheider having once again taken lethal aim at his target: "Smile, you son of a ******!"
 
Probably more like 'Wow, I'm going to make so much money off all this'

Afterall, remember, he never really 'got' Star Trek as a kid according to his own admission. I guess now he's tamed it.
Plus, he's had 4 years to expand on what he 'actually' meant to say.
 
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Probably more like 'Wow, I'm going to make so much money off all this'

I hope he does. And he is/will.

Afterall, remember, he never really 'got' Star Trek as a kid according to his own admission. I guess now he's tamed it.
Plus, he's had 4 years to expand on what he 'actually' meant to say.

Don't know anything about that. What I do know is I'm a big fan of TOS and I loved the movie, even more so than the first.
 
Question: how is Sulu able to contact Khan?

Also, and I'm surprised some people here haven't mentioned it, why is it that Scotty was able to stun Khan on the Vengeance bridge, while Uhura, despite repeated blasts, couldn't?
 
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I think Khan was playing for effect, hes bound to have very good hearing so may have heard Kirk tell Scotty to "drop him" so when he was shot he hit the floor and waited for the right moment. As soon as Scotty shot him I was waiting for his eyes to open and show the audience it was a trick.
 
I think Khan was playing for effect, hes bound to have very good hearing so may have heard Kirk tell Scotty to "drop him" so when he was shot he hit the floor and waited for the right moment. As soon as Scotty shot him I was waiting for his eyes to open and show the audience it was a trick.

Yeah, I think Khan took a dive when Scotty shot him on the bridge of the Vengeance.

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I'm a 54-year old fan whose favorite TV show has always been TOS over any other Trek series-or movie. I saw the movie with my 15-year-old son. I don't know who enjoyed the movie more, he or I. That's two generations coming together to thoroughly enjoy Trek! We were both glued to our seats for 2 hours and 12 minutes. I was blown away by everything on the screen: the tongue-in-cheek story, the well-known heroes so faithfully re-created for us "original" fans, the mind-blowing special effects to snare the fans to follow. I laughed and cried, cheered and clapped. I gasped with surprise and nodded with satisfaction.

There will always be JJ-detractors who would think us easy JJ-targets, or lazy JJ-thinkers, or mindless JJ-cattle or JJ-shills.

What I am is very happy and appreciative that JJ Abrams is making Star Trek movies and Star Trek ships. Nothing takes away from my enjoyment of the continuing voyages. That's enough for me-and my son.

I believe JJ Abrams' bumper sticker reads: 'You can never please 'em all.' Fortunately for the future of the Star Trek franchise, no one expects he has to.

I'm sure JJ Abrams right about now is rightfully feeling much like Roy Scheider having once again taken lethal aim at his target: "Smile, you son of a ******!"

I think that's is awesome. As a 44 year old fan with a 3 month old son, I can't wait to share all of Trek with him. I brought up the point in the pre-release thread that one's age does have an impact on how one views Trek as it has such a long history. It was curious when I asked Jeyl how old he/she was my question went unanswered.
 
Yeah, I think Khan took a dive when Scotty shot him on the bridge of the Vengeance.

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I think that's is awesome. As a 44 year old fan with a 3 month old son, I can't wait to share all of Trek with him. I brought up the point in the pre-release thread that one's age does have an impact on how one views Trek as it has such a long history. It was curious when I asked Jeyl how old he/she was my question went unanswered.

I'm 45 and a lifelong Trek fan and I think J.J.'s Trek movies are really fun popcorn flicks but not great Trek by any means. People have different opinions regardless of age.
 
I'm 45 and a lifelong Trek fan and I think J.J.'s Trek movies are really fun popcorn flicks but not great Trek by any means. People have different opinions regardless of age.

I agree and my point is specific to the films. There have been many arguing that Trek films aren't action films whereas guys like us can recall how much of a game changer it was or Trek when TWOK hit theaters in 1982. I'm used to Trek evolving and morphing into many different things over the years. Same with new Trek, I say let's roll with it.
 
We left the theater wanting MORE.

It was a very good movie. I really appreciate the homage to the original series, WHILE this new Star Trek holds on to it's 'on' image.
 
While I don't disagree that this could potentially be an interesting story progression, a couple of points:

1. At one point your argument against the new Trek was the reliance on putting Earth in peril. Likewise, a similar argument would be against putting the crew of the Enterprise at the center of every significant problem. If it becomes a small stage to have Earth always the center of attention, it is equally small to assume that the Enterprise crew are the only ones who can deal with any crisis.,

If I was to create a new Star Trek series that took place on a space ship, I will NOT be naming the ship Enterprise. That was my first ever complaint for the show ENTERPRISE. If that's not an attempt by the creators to literally make the Star Trek universe revolve around that one name, I don't know what is.

But when it comes to what the JJverse has established, this would have more to do with the crew's experience in dealing with the Romulans, Kirk actually seeing this in memory and the red matter rather than the Star Trek V excuse where Starfleet wants Kirk to do it simply because he's Kirk even if his crew are incompetent and his ship is falling apart.
 
We left the theater wanting MORE.

It was a very good movie. I really appreciate the homage to the original series, WHILE this new Star Trek holds on to it's 'on' image.

Yes, me too. And the mention on the bridge of a 5-year mission at the end gave me goose-bumps; very exciting!

Will definitely go see it again while it's still in theaters. Worth every penny of another $8 to see it again!
 
OK just saw it last night, so I'm a bit late to the game. Perhaps no new ground here, but here's my $.02 (in no particular order):

1) I almost wonder whether or not this storyline was in response to a lot of fan criticism that Kirk "wasn't ready" for the Enterprise, or if it's how they had planned a story arc from the beginning. Either way, I enjoyed that they dealt with this issue and didn't just shove them out there on an adventure. It always did strike me as a bit of an unfair expectation that after the first movie, folks seem to expect Kirk to be the exact same as Shatner. Well of course they're not the same character because they haven't had the same amount of life experience.

2) Cumberbatch was great as the antagonist. I don't know that it needed to be Khan for this story to work though. Remember when Benicio Del Toro was rumored for the villain? How great would he have been as Khan? The plot, for me anyways, didn't come off as so "earth in peril" as everyone was thinking during the pre-release thread. And in retrospect, the teaser trailers with what ends up being the Vengeance crashing through San Francisco was a decent way to throw people off from 'real' plot of the movie. And as great as Cumberbatch was, he was still mis-cast as Khan.

3) I don't really want to get too far into any verboten political discussion, but I do think this plot does honor Star Trek's legacy of dealing with issues of humanity, and is relevant to the world we live in today and the discussions we have about terrorism and war.

4) I can understand how fans of Prime Trek might feel that the references to Wrath of Khan and to TOS were a bit hammy, especially given that JJ has said that he wasn't really a fan of the franchise. So I can see how one might feel a bit pandered to when Christine Chapel comes up in dialogue; a random tribble appears; or when Kirk romances some alien ladies. They probably could have left a few of these moments out (Spock doing the "KHAAAAN!" yell was perhaps a bit gratuitous), but on balance, for me they made the movie really fun.

5) The Vengeance....well, aside from the kind of general "WTF" about Starfleet having a giant warship (the Section 31 thing was a cleaver way to make it not be Starfleet proper actually), why was it so big? It would have been nice to have seen the Klingons just a bit more in this movie so that the potential threat of the Klingons could be better realized on screen. Because what we saw of them was really not much. Some funky looking mini Birds of Prey (why did all the other ships in the universe get bigger except for the Klingon ships?!?), and a few that got taken out by Khan. That battle scene was kind of hectic, did those red shirts even die?

6) And oh yeah, the Klingons....I'm pretty "meh" about the redesign. I don't think the more angular head ridges work for me. It doesn't really look organic as if it evolved from an exoskeleton. And as I mentioned above, I could have used just bit more Klingon presence in the story, I realize it's kind of ancillary to the plot, but there's not much in the JJ-verse which actually discusses the Klingons, so the audience doesn't really know to take them as a threat that would warrant Admiral Marcus' concerns. And, I'm pretty sure those piercings in the ridges were left over from the Romulan concepts from the 09 movie....

7) I'm really over the Spock/Uhura romance. It feels totally superfluous to Spock's character evolution and actually feels regressive for Uhura's character. The thing that was so great about Uhura in TOS was that she was a strong female character, and now she's still a strong female character, but not so independent.

8) I think everyone did a good job of "growing into" their characters, although I especially like Simon Pegg's performance.

9) So Chekov can beam Sulu and Kirk up as they're free falling through the air, but can't snatch Khan off of a flying car? Actually that whole last act with the Vengeance crashing and Spock pursuing him felt like it could have been cut by simply just writing around the problem of Khan's blood (McCoy doesn't inject all of it into the Tribble perhaps...). I just don't know that the sequence was really necessary to advance the plot of the movie, other than sneaking in some effects shots.

All that having been said, I really enjoyed the film, despite the quibbles I had with it.

I also went out and saw this in a Dolby Atmos theater, which is a 64 channel sound system with 200 speakers and 13 subwoofers. It's a way more dynamic way to move sound around the theater and it creates some really awesome opportunities to have what are essentially different audio environments. With the opening "forest" sequence, you are really immersed in leaves and wind, and everything flying by; while in say, the engine room or in the Vengeance, there's a much more realistic auditory sense of the space. You can hear smaller noises off in the background. There's also much better tracking of off-screen voices as they move in and out of the frame.
 
(McCoy doesn't inject all of it into the Tribble perhaps...).

Standard Starfleet forensic procedure is to inject blood from a suspect into a dead tribble, then disect it and read its entrails. Great way to see the future, though it makes the folks at Temporal Investigations a bit nervous. It'll all be explained in the next movie, "Star Trek: The Quibbles with Tribbles."
 
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