Solo ANH Hero Scope Mount. New Pics near the end

[Brinn 71]

Thanks for the frames Gabe. Check your INBOX.

Hope this helps....

B

 

[amish]

Gabe,

Just had to say that is incredible. Be sure to thank your source on behalf of ALL of us.

Thanks for the time you have poured into this.

Tom

 

[Prop Runner]

Originally posted by amish@Dec 19 2005, 06:33 AM
Just had to say that is incredible.  Be sure to thank your source on behalf of ALL of us.

Thanks, eBay.

And I'm doing this more for my own gratification than for you guys, trust me. :lol

I offered Brinn71 a chance to post some of his best enhancements, so while he does that, I'll start pouring over the new details and update my CAD model...

- Gabe

 

[vaderdarth]

I'm seeing a straight knurl on that closeup shot of the knob you posted... There are a couple good signs that it's a straight knurl on different areas of the knob. You can physically see the lines on the lower right side, and you can make out the "teeth" profile of the knurl on the top...

 

[Brinn 71]

Hey gang. Well, first off, a really BIG THANKS to Gabe for the pics. Here they are. I sincerely hope these lit up pics help. The shadows are REALLY BLACK and I did what I could to get every ounce of detail out of them without any pixel distortion, although some are grainy even after my best efforts. I couldn't sharpen them up too much since sharpening them resulted in SHARPENING UP THE GRAIN. ARGH. :cry

I drew an arrow where I thought I saw a straight knurl on the knob? What do you all think?
Thanks again GABE. :thumbsup

Brinn 71

 

[Brinn 71]

Bump

PICS UP.

B

 

[amish]

Wow, great pics. I am goingto have to go with no knurling based on the second row of pics.

 

[Prop Runner]

Thanks, Brinn - you've done a man's job.

Tom, I have to agree with you - there's too much graininess and random lines and patterns to reach any kind of conclusion with respect to the thumb screw knurliness. I can see how some can look hard enough and find knurl edges and lines in the shadows, but it goes to reason that in the many better lit areas of the thumbscrew, those knurl marks should be more obvious, and instead the surfaces appear completely featureless. But if I had to decide between straight and diamond knurling in a coin toss with a gun to my head, I'd probably have to say straight.

I was also really, really, really hoping to see what happens in the contact point between the scope cradle and vertical bracket, but the graininess refuses to yield any definitive details. :cry But at least we now have the best detail to date on the front of the vertical bracket and dovetail block, so I don't consider this mission a failure by any stretch.

And if I ever gain access to the full movie reel, say at the AFI archives in LA, I'll try and arrange a private screening. It's just a damn shame you can't hit "PAUSE" when a frame is being heated by a 3000 Watt projector bulb...

- Gabe

 

[Brinn 71]

Originally posted by Prop Runner@Dec 20 2005, 02:46 AM
Thanks, Brinn - you've done a man's job.

Tom, I have to agree with you - there's too much graininess and random lines and patterns to reach any kind of conclusion with respect to the thumb screw knurliness.  I can see how some can look hard enough and find knurl edges and lines in the shadows, but it goes to reason that in the many better lit areas of the thumbscrew, those knurl marks should be more obvious, and instead the surfaces appear completely featureless.  But if I had to decide between straight and diamond knurling in a coin toss with a gun to my head, I'd probably have to say straight.

I was also really, really, really hoping to see what happens in the contact point between the scope cradle and vertical bracket, but the graininess refuses to yield any definitive details.  :cry  But at least we now have the best detail to date on the front of the vertical bracket and dovetail block, so I don't consider this mission a failure by any stretch.

And if I ever gain access to the full movie reel, say at the AFI archives in LA, I'll try and arrange a private screening.  It's just a damn shame you can't hit "PAUSE" when a frame is being heated by a 3000 Watt projector bulb...

- Gabe

[snapback]1139791[/snapback]​

Thanks man. You are probably right, but here is what (I THINK?) I see:

I see 3 notches in the knob. Does that make any sense.?
I also think I see some lines on the edge of the knob.
I think I also see some knurling notches here?
It could be just grain, but I think they are there?
You are right, there should be more shadows at play there if there were actual knurling, but maybe the lines were etched in very faintly?
I don't know, just throwing it out there.

I am VERY glad I could help. Thanks again for mailing me these to lighten.

B

 

[vaderdarth]

Brinn I totally agree.........and also look at the knob at about "3 o-clock to 5 o-clock" you can see a disctinct zig zag pattern which would indicate the teeth of the straight knurl. It's visible again at 11 0-clock

Dave

 

[JHVanOphem]

How about... instead of the entire circumference being knurled its only in 3 sections?

In the last set of pics posted above, it looks more like the pattern is is only in the 2, 6 and 10 o'clock areas (approx), and the sections in between are smooth.

 

[gavidoc]

I see a fillet on the interior of the cradle to vertical T bracket mounting like what I illustrated in my Q&D 3d model from earlier in this thread.

 

[Prop Runner]

Originally posted by Brinn 71@Dec 20 2005, 06:35 AM
Thanks man.  You are probably right, but here is what (I THINK?) I see:

I see 3 notches in the knob.  Does that make any sense.?
I also think I see some lines on the edge of the knob. 
I think I also see some knurling notches here?
It could be just grain, but I think they are there?
You are right, there should be more shadows at play there if there were actual knurling, but maybe the lines were etched in very faintly?
I don't know, just throwing it out there.

I am VERY glad I could help.  Thanks again for mailing me these to lighten.

B

[snapback]1139902[/snapback]​

Brinn: I have to be the voice of dissent here with regard to the 3 notches, for 2 reasons:

1. They are not 120 degrees apart from each other - the top arc is closer to 150 and the right arc is closer to 100

2. This photo:

So to me they're just one of those "shapes in the clouds" and "Virgin Mary in the toast" coincidences. I also find it hard to believe that only parts of the thumbscrew would be knurled and others would be flat (I've never seen one like that), so if there's a concensus building for straight knurling, I'd just cover the entire circumfrence.

Gav: there very well may be, but I'm not seeing it, and the LFL photo above doesn't back it up. Could you please do a line-trace on the shot that best lends itself to your interpretation? Here's mine:

Also - could you perhaps change the thread title to read "NEW PICS P.6." to attract more responses and input?

Thanks.

- Gabe

 

[Brinn 71]

Originally posted by Prop Runner+Dec 20 2005, 02:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prop Runner @ Dec 20 2005, 02:39 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Brinn 71

@Dec 20 2005, 06:35 AM
Thanks man.  You are probably right, but here is what (I THINK?) I see:

I see 3 notches in the knob.  Does that make any sense.?
I also think I see some lines on the edge of the knob. 
I think I also see some knurling notches here?
It could be just grain, but I think they are there?
You are right, there should be more shadows at play there if there were actual knurling, but maybe the lines were etched in very faintly?
I don't know, just throwing it out there.

I am VERY glad I could help.  Thanks again for mailing me these to lighten.

B

[snapback]1139902[/snapback]​

Brinn: I have to be the voice of dissent here with regard to the 3 notches, for 2 reasons:

1. They are not 120 degrees apart from each other - the top arc is closer to 150 and the right arc is closer to 100

2. This photo:

So to me they're just one of those "shapes in the clouds" and "Virgin Mary in the toast" coincidences. I also find it hard to believe that only parts of the thumbscrew would be knurled and others would be flat (I've never seen one like that), so if there's a concensus building for straight knurling, I'd just cover the entire circumfrence. [/b]

Yeah, you are right, the LFL pic doesn't have any of the notches I think I see. You cant argue with that pic.

B

 

[OldKen]

well i see what you think you see as well dude, but i think they are just dings on the outside...

but wouldnt it just stand to reason that they would have some sort of pattern?

you would think that they would be some sort of found part, more than likely a real gun part or something millitary.

youd think they sould have some sort of pattern as it would be hard to assembe/dissasemble something that was smooth out in the field...

do get where im comming from?

Gabe you are the master of these found parts, one of the deffinate gurus on this board, i know you said you felt it was smooth, im just wondering what this coulda came from to where it would be smooth and not some sort of pattern or knurling to it?

 

[Prop Runner]

Originally posted by oldken@Dec 20 2005, 01:26 PM
Gabe you are the master of these found parts, one of the deffinate gurus on this board, i know you said you felt it was smooth, im just wondering what this coulda came from to where it would be smooth and not some sort of pattern or knurling to it?

[snapback]1140226[/snapback]​

You are way too kind, Ken... please don't stop.

Well, I have a theory about this bracket design, since it's never been positively identified.

Three things stirke me as odd about it:

1. The edges of the scope cradle flanges on the side facing the Mauser are ground off, as if the design had a flaw that was corrected to eliminate interference with the elevation sight
2. The screw holes in the scope ring flanges are not centered but off to the side. This is a sloppy way to fabricate a precision machined part
   
3. The rear post of the vertical bracket is considerably narrower than the front post

This tells me that the assembly may have been cobbled together from existing scope rings and the rest was designed on the fly or off a sketch by a gunsmith or Bapty for the purpose of filming Sitting Target. If we look at similar ( in the sense that they're about lone gunmen with customized weapons) films of the time, such as The Day of the Jackal and Naked Runner, then for this scope bracket to be a "one-off" design is by no means far-fetched. We also know that between the 70s and 90s Blade Runner, Robocop, Aliens, Timecop, Blade, Battlefield Earth, and later Equillibrium, featured working handguns that were used as a baseline for prominent film-specific props, but our "prop awareness," inside studio knowledge, and availability of reference materials and prop maker testimonies only really only began following Star Wars with respect to converted firearms, so we're at a definite disadvantage here when it comes to pre-Star Wars films.

So to expect certain elements of the design to conform to our notions of mass-produced military or hunting optics might be misguided. That means that the Thumbscrew knob may indeed lack knurling and the fabrication could be expected to be sloppy and asymmetrical. This isn't to say that we should stop looking for a twin somewhere out there, but in this case I suspect we could be on a wild goose chase.

Feel free to disagree - we're nowhere NEAR the end of this brainstorming session.

- Gabe

 

[Brinn 71]

Gabe, I agree to your post: "the assembly may have been cobbled together from existing scope rings and the rest was designed on the fly or off a sketch by a gunsmith or Bapty"

Filming stop-motion animation, you know how many times, at the 11th hour, we slapped puppets or sets together just to 'get it done'?? LOTS.
So I bet that statement is 100% TRUE.
It seems this bracket doesn't 'exist' per say, it was many scope brackets and was thrown together. The differing measurements, angles and asymmetry point to that answer, I think.
Can we break up the lot, part by part, like Obi-Wan's ANH saber and find each piece?
I DOUBT IT.

You never know though....

B

 

[gavidoc]

 

[Serafino]

Amazing amazing work everyone. Gabe I am floored by your persistent bloodhounding, great work.

I have no time in on this prop, so this is just a shot in the dark, but I'd lean toward shallow fine straight knurling on the knob in question. The places where it doesn't show up don't trouble me-the resolution and lighting there don't demand that we'd see it, IMO.

It's a tough call though. There is something at the bottom of the knob even in the LFL pic blow up above, but one can find other odd short straight lines in inside corners on the piece in that pic which undercuts any sort of definite conclusion about what it is.

Still, wouldn't it be damned odd to have such big thumb-convenient knobs and NOT have any sort of knurling? (apologies if someone's already said that, this is just a drive-by...)

 

[Prop Runner]

Gav, thanks for your take on it, but the reasons I disagree with your fillet round interpretation are the evident sharp transition edge where the cradle and vertical posts meet, the geometry of the Mauser's elevation sight directly behind the cradle, and the way you drew your line traces, which don't gel with the way the posts taper toward the middle of the cradle in the LFL photo:

I also noted the vertical post clearance to bolster my theory that this bracket was a "one-off" design specifically tailored to fit this particular model C-96, with the fatter upper receiver guide rail.

Updated CAD model to follow shortly to support my line traces...

- Gabe