Sideshow 1/4 Vader. New Pic.

[vaderdarth]

Sure would like to see closups of the chestbox and belt.

Dave

 

[Zendragon]

Originally posted by KevVader+Jan 29 2006, 06:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KevVader @ Jan 29 2006, 06:06 PM)</div>

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@Dec 30 2005, 09:22 PM
I would point out that something like Vader's armor can be 3D laser scanned, as Gentle Giant is fond of touting, so AFAIK there is no reason to NOT have it be "perfect" except for arbitrary aesthetic reasons.

- k

[snapback]1147223[/snapback]​

Agreed 110%.....

...to me as far as proportions go...the mouth vent is too big, throws the whole look of the helmet off. What bothers me more, is that this is supposed to be an ANH Vader and the helmet is wrong.....no widow's peak, etc.... For $350, I would expect all details to be spot on....

[snapback]1171002[/snapback]​

[/b]

You know... I hear a few people that keep referencing the widow's peak, and mind you I am no Vader expert, but from what I understand from a couple people, is that there were like 6 or 7 different ANH helmets used and that SS based their sculpt on a Lucas provided helmet...from the archives I guess... so is it possible that their sculpt is based on the reference material and not the screen cap with the widows peak? Just curious. From my perspective, I think it looks great.

 

[Brent M]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 29 2006, 08:08 PM

I totally missed the last paragraph of the newbie's post.  That WAS way out of line.  What ever you do,  don't get jacked out of shape based on some newbie's post.  They will learn how to communicate or they will continue to get their silly heads bitten off.

Newbies should read the COC carefully before casually starting a flame war. 

[snapback]1171373[/snapback]​

You're a cool guy, Vaderdarth. Wish there were more people like you around here. B)

 

[KevVader]

Originally posted by Zendragon+Jan 29 2006, 09:24 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zendragon @ Jan 29 2006, 09:24 PM)</div>

Originally posted by KevVader@Jan 29 2006, 06:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-phase pistol

@Dec 30 2005, 09:22 PM
I would point out that something like Vader's armor can be 3D laser scanned, as Gentle Giant is fond of touting, so AFAIK there is no reason to NOT have it be "perfect" except for arbitrary aesthetic reasons.

- k

[snapback]1147223[/snapback]​

Agreed 110%.....

...to me as far as proportions go...the mouth vent is too big, throws the whole look of the helmet off. What bothers me more, is that this is supposed to be an ANH Vader and the helmet is wrong.....no widow's peak, etc.... For $350, I would expect all details to be spot on....

[snapback]1171002[/snapback]​

You know... I hear a few people that keep referencing the widow's peak, and mind you I am no Vader expert, but from what I understand from a couple people, is that there were like 6 or 7 different ANH helmets used and that SS based their sculpt on a Lucas provided helmet...from the archives I guess... so is it possible that their sculpt is based on the reference material and not the screen cap with the widows peak? Just curious. From my perspective, I think it looks great.

[snapback]1171388[/snapback]​

[/b]

Nope....1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops, which all had a widow's peak. While it's quite possible that SS got a lid from LFL for reference, it looks like they just got the wrong version....like an ROTJ.

 

[Clutch]

I thought this was the replica prop forum, not the replica toy forum.

 

[elwood49]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 29 2006, 08:25 PM
Don't feel that way man............this forum is open to all opinions.  I'm a perfectionist all the way with a prop rep.......but for this statue..........Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting mine.  Will I alter it to suit me.........yeah probably.    I'm pretty stoked with it the way it is...............knowing full well it's not screen accurate. 

It's gonna be a bitch of a time making it more accurate.........LOL.   

I'm gonna remake a few details in such a way as SS should have done them the first time around.  That's not knocking SS.........it's just how I work this stuff out.  I'm gonna alter a $350 statue..............call me Kooky.......LOL.

To be honest.........there is alot there to work with.  The belt boxes are the first thing to go.....wrong shape etc etc etc............the chestbox needs a facelift and a decent set of red/green lenses.  The rods need tweaking.  Go figure. 

Dave

[snapback]1171329[/snapback]​

Please post pics when you're done with the tweaks. The inaccuracies have bothered me as well, but I can't wait to get this piece. The main things that bother me about the statue are the lack of a widow's peak, the chest-box lighting up, the all black paint scheme, and the fact that the right tusk is painted gray instead of black.

Anyway, on any non-prop item I think it's better for me personally to just overlook certain details if the statue maintains its intended visual impact. This statue, despite its flaws, really is impressive to me. I'll probably make a few tweaks to it myself, but when it's squaring off against Old Ben under an acrylic case, those inaccuracies will fade away in my mind. I can't think of a better scaled Vader mixed-media statue on the market today, which is why I'm so excited to get this. The Attakus Vader I is beautiful, but it's smaller and extremely expensive compared to the SS Vader.

BTW Brett, that Don Post Fett is amazing.

 

[Brent M]

Originally posted by elwood49@Jan 29 2006, 11:36 PM
Please post pics when you're done with the tweaks.  The inaccuracies have bothered me as well, but I can't wait to get this piece.  The main things that bother me about the statue are the lack of a widow's peak, the chest-box lighting up, the all black paint scheme, and the fact that the right tusk is painted gray instead of black.

Anyway, on any non-prop item I think it's better for me personally to just overlook certain details if the statue maintains its intended visual impact.  This statue, despite its flaws, really is impressive to me.  I'll probably make a few tweaks to it myself, but when it's squaring off against Old Ben under an acrylic case, those inaccuracies will fade away in my mind.  I can't think of a better scaled Vader mixed-media statue on the market today, which is why I'm so excited to get this.  The Attakus Vader I is beautiful, but it's smaller and extremely expensive compared to the SS Vader.

BTW Brent, that Don Post Fett is amazing.

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Thanks for the nice words, Elwood. You're on my "cool people" list along with vaderdarth.
:cheers

 

[Super Serg]

Originally posted by KevVader@Jan 29 2006, 11:00 PM
Nope....1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops, which all had a widow's peak. While it's quite possible that SS got a lid from LFL for reference, it looks like they just got the wrong version....like an ROTJ.

[snapback]1171418[/snapback]​

Where did you get this info? I interviewed a publicist from the LFL archives at C3
& they stated that there were over 5 used in ANH. Sideshow stated in 1 of their
blogs that they were given the reference directly from LFL & that there were
around 8 or more used in ANH. I don't know who's correct, BUT just having
"1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops" sounds a bit off to me.

*ss*

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Brent M+Jan 30 2006, 03:53 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brent M @ Jan 30 2006, 03:53 AM)</div>

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@Jan 29 2006, 07:24 PM
That's a little harsh, dude. There's a code of conduct here, you know.  :rolleyes

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Sorry, but I refuse to just sit back and let someone call me ignorant, unenlightened and uninformed without fighting back. Would you tolerate that?

Hopefully the discussion can get back on track and people can learn to use a little tact rather than just being out and out rude towards other members.

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[/b]

I did not call you any of those things. It was not meant as an attack on you, more of a regret and explanation of why I do not like this statue. I'm sorry if it was too vague and harsh a statement. I was just trying to convey the fact that because I know and like the way the real thing looks takes away from a statue that does NOT have those exact features. The price is also another issue I have with these figures. They are seriously overpriced for the quality they display.

People who don't know all the details don't care that it isn't really accurate. However, since I know the details, I unfortunately DO care and will not pay $200+ for something that doesn't look right.

Once again: I'm sorry if my statements were misunderstood. It was not my intention to neither put you nor your opinions down. That was not the purpose of my post.

(but nice to know that there is such a cut-throat mentality in here, jumping on someone before they have a chance to defend or explain their statements. No, seriously, I will try to choose my words more carefully in the future and that's a promise.)

 

[KevVader]

Originally posted by Super Serg+Jan 30 2006, 09:15 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Super Serg @ Jan 30 2006, 09:15 AM)</div>

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@Jan 29 2006, 11:00 PM
Nope....1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops, which all had a widow's peak. While it's quite possible that SS got a lid from LFL for reference, it looks like they just got the wrong version....like an ROTJ.

[snapback]1171418[/snapback]​

Where did you get this info? I interviewed a publicist from the LFL archives at C3
& they stated that there were over 5 used in ANH. Sideshow stated in 1 of their
blogs that they were given the reference directly from LFL & that there were
around 8 or more used in ANH. I don't know who's correct, BUT just having
"1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops" sounds a bit off to me.

*ss*

[snapback]1171710[/snapback]​

[/b]

....based on a lot of research by the experts here actually. This has been long debated as to how many screen used ANH lids there were, but one can reference the same one or two helmets throughout ANH. There were more tour suits used for promo work, but they were not screen used. Perhaps that's where the 7 to 8 helmets came from....

Again, if LFL gave them the reference helmet, either they gave them the wrong version lid or SS scanned/sculpted another version other than ANH, they still got it wrong....take your pick....

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Super Serg+Jan 30 2006, 04:15 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Super Serg @ Jan 30 2006, 04:15 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-KevVader

@Jan 29 2006, 11:00 PM
Nope....1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops, which all had a widow's peak. While it's quite possible that SS got a lid from LFL for reference, it looks like they just got the wrong version....like an ROTJ.

[snapback]1171418[/snapback]​

Where did you get this info? I interviewed a publicist from the LFL archives at C3
& they stated that there were over 5 used in ANH. Sideshow stated in 1 of their
blogs that they were given the reference directly from LFL & that there were
around 8 or more used in ANH. I don't know who's correct, BUT just having
"1 or 2 screen used ANH lids tops" sounds a bit off to me.

*ss*

[snapback]1171710[/snapback]​

[/b]

They didn't have a lot of money back then and the Vader suit & helmet was quite expensive. Don't really think they would use so much money on just one character, when there were so much else that cost money. But, of course... I do not know for sure... so maybe they had several (I just find that highly unlikely).

 

[elwood49]

Originally posted by KevVader@Jan 30 2006, 09:33 AM
....based on a lot of research by the experts here actually. This has been long debated as to how many screen used ANH lids there were, but one can reference the same one or two helmets throughout ANH. There were more tour suits used for promo work, but they were not screen used. Perhaps that's where the 7 to 8 helmets came from....

Again, if LFL gave them the reference helmet, either they gave them the wrong version lid or SS scanned/sculpted another version other than ANH, they still got it wrong....take your pick....

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SS did scan a Vader helmet from the Archives, but as you stated, I believe they got one from the wrong film. That has long been a point of contention, since I told various SS people that the helmet proportions were wrong, yet they maintained that it was scanned directly from a reference in the Archives.

Do any ANH helmets even exist in the Archives anymore? Based on information I've gathered, I also think that only 2-3 helmets existed in ANH. I've read that the reason the design underwent such drastic changes in the ESB is that all of the original helmets either went missing into private hands or were out with the various roadshows. I'm far from a Vader expert, so I don't know what ANH Vader references remain in the Archives. Anyone know?

 

[vaderdarth]

Originally posted by elwood49+Jan 30 2006, 11:21 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elwood49 @ Jan 30 2006, 11:21 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-KevVader

@Jan 30 2006, 09:33 AM
....based on a lot of research by the experts here actually. This has been long debated as to how many screen used ANH lids there were, but one can reference the same one or two helmets throughout ANH. There were more tour suits used for promo work, but they were not screen used. Perhaps that's where the 7 to 8 helmets came from....

Again, if LFL gave them the reference helmet, either they gave them the wrong version lid or SS scanned/sculpted another version other than ANH, they still got it wrong....take your pick....

[snapback]1171723[/snapback]​

SS did scan a Vader helmet from the Archives, but as you stated, I believe they got one from the wrong film. That has long been a point of contention, since I told various SS people that the helmet proportions were wrong, yet they maintained that it was scanned directly from a reference in the Archives.

Do any ANH helmets even exist in the Archives anymore? Based on information I've gathered, I also think that only 2-3 helmets existed in ANH. I've read that the reason the design underwent such drastic changes in the ESB is that all of the original helmets either went missing into private hands or were out with the various roadshows. I'm far from a Vader expert, so I don't know what ANH Vader references remain in the Archives. Anyone know?

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[/b]

To be honest, I'm critical of them actually scanning one helmet from the archives......I say that because of the vast differences in the Vader head on the statue as the thing evolved over the past year. Some look far different than the others. Maybe they didn't scan until later in the process......and then scanned the wrong one. I'm not sure....but I do know it's not direct off an ANH facemask and dome. It's just too far off. The Hasbro 3.75" fig head is more in proportion than the sideshow is. At least from what Pics I've seen so far.

Still, I love the statue and should get it by next weekend.

Dave

 

[elwood49]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 30 2006, 10:50 AM
To be honest,  I'm critical of them actually scanning one helmet from the archives......I say that because of the vast differences in the Vader head on the statue as the thing evolved over the past year.  Some look far different than the others.    Maybe they didn't scan until later in the process......and then scanned the wrong one.  I'm not sure....but I do know it's not direct off an ANH facemask and dome.  It's just too far off.  The Hasbro 3.75" fig head is more in proportion than the sideshow is.  At least from what Pics I've seen so far. 

Still,  I love the statue and should get it by next weekend. 

Dave

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I asked Andy Bergholtz myself about the proportions of the helmet. He didn't do the sculpting (Oluf Hartvigson did), but he obviously is very familiar with the process they used.

Here is his exact quote on the subject from the Sideshow Freaks board:

Originally posted by SideshowAndy
Usually, for objects like helmets, armor, weaponry, or mechanical/robotic objects like you mentioned, parts are fabricated and even machined rather than sculpted with 'traditional' methods like portraits are. Carving or fabricating objects like armor is a completely different animal than portrait sculpting, and there are a lot of techniques that allow symmetry to be easily achieved. Sometimes scans of the original props may even be used (as was the case with the PF Vader helmet, which makes much of the argument over it's proportions somewhat amusing).

Take that for what it's worth. I can't wait to get my Darth Exclusive on Thursday.

 

[vaderdarth]

I hope I'm off base with my "proportions" concern......then again...maybe it's just a new paint job it needs.

Dave

PS I'll show it off if it makes that big of a difference with a new paint scheme.

 

[cking]

I'd just like to point out that Andy Bergholtz then clarified still further and he said that the sculpt went through MANY Lucasfilm changes before it was approved.

I'm completely baffled by the mentality of the Lucasfilm people - why not leave it exactly as the scan (which presumably would have resulted in a much more accurate helmet) ???

What's the point of using the benefits of 3d laser scanning only to completely change the way it looks by making additional changes?

Chris

 

[Darth Bill]

Sometimes scans of the original props may even be used (as was the case with the PF Vader helmet, which makes much of the argument over it's proportions somewhat amusing).

So how'd they get the angle of the teeth so wrong??

The sculptors got the old Kenner 12" Vader perfect back in '77-78 and today, in 2005-06, Sideshow didn't even come close. :unsure




Russ

 

[cking]

Pictures speak a thousand words....

I simply increased the helmet size by 10 percent in Photoshop and this resulted in a much better looking Vader.

I don't how anyone can say the helmet is the correct size on the current statue.

I think I need to commission a new helmet sculpt at the correct size.

(Current statue pic courtesy of Dave from SF forum).

Chris

 

[TheNuclearHorror]

What a difference that makes.

 

[cking]

Here's another very simple change. The bulk of the cape has been reduced in this pic.

Looks like I'll need to get a new cape made too.

Chris