Seeking metal lathe recommendation

[BlackThorne]

Working on my second lightsaber has been a lot of fun lately. It got me thinking of upgrading my tools beyond the old dremel and get a metal lathe so I can create my own hilt parts for the inevitable next saber. What kind of machine would I be looking for and what are you some of you using? I have seen some in the range of 500-800 Euros on Amazon but I don’t know if they are large enough for this kind of projects. Anything above that would probably exceed my budget though.

 

[Halliwax]

Go big or go home… I have invested so much money into my little Chinese lathe. It’s always breaking.. I always push it too far.. you grow out of it extremely fast..

For what I have in repairs and upgrades I could have a beautiful bench lathe..

 

[eethan]

What do you call big? My bench lathe is 1400€ if I remember correctly, it's 50kg, 40cm between points, and I have been doing runs for 3 years with it. It's a Bernardo profi 400 and it has been very faithfull for now. I had some shirts cuts at a point and it looks like it was shavings finding their way to electronics, I have put tape in some places and haven't had the issue again.

I really wouldn't buy the first Chinese small lathe, I did a lot of research before buying mine, but in the end it's still not a big machine, even if it is advertised as designed in Austria, it is still made in China like all the others, but it is working nicely

It's hit and miss of course, my more expensive milling machine supposedly checked in Germany, is not as good.

 

[BlackThorne]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and eethan pointing me to the Bernardo, which gives me an idea what specs to look for.

I was looking at the Paulimot SIEG SC2 which is just under 1000€ and seems to be their entry model for milling steel. But looking at the size of these machines I probably have to postpone that idea for when I’ll move into a bigger apartment someday

 

[eethan]

I don't know if steel is you objective, but it is a bit ambitious to star with steel on a small machine!
One thing to absolute consider in your budget is tools, the lathe will usually not come with a drilling chuck, indexing points (not sure of the name sorry) and most of all turning tools.
This can be purchased over time according to your needs, but most will have to be bought right away.
Cheers

 

[Halliwax]

What do you call big? My bench lathe is 1400€ if I remember correctly, it's 50kg, 40cm between points, and I have been doing runs for 3 years with it. It's a Bernardo profi 400 and it has been very faithfull for now. I had some shirts cuts at a point and it looks like it was shavings finding their way to electronics, I have put tape in some places and haven't had the issue again.

I really wouldn't buy the first Chinese small lathe, I did a lot of research before buying mine, but in the end it's still not a big machine, even if it is advertised as designed in Austria, it is still made in China like all the others, but it is working nicely

It's hit and miss of course, my more expensive milling machine supposedly checked in Germany, is not as good.

Ask starkiller I’ve told him, I don’t know how the heck you make the stuff you do with that lathe of yours! Totally blows my mind!!

You are wicked talented

 

[eethan]

Ask starkiller I’ve told him, I don’t know how the heck you make the stuff you do with that lathe of yours! Totally blows my mind!!

You are wicked talented

thank you Danny, very kind of you
does that mean you are recommending even bigger a lathe to Blackthorne here? if we have the same kind of size lathe you and me, once again I really think this is hit and miss. I got rather lucky with mine, It had some issues with the shortcircuits, but appart from that, it has never failed me. I will probably have to change it eventually as I am driving it pretty hard every day, but I hope it works a bit longer for now!

My advice though is the tools, I changed my tool holder with a quick change turret I had to adapt to my lathe, and I only use carbide insert tools, and am replacing all the inserts from the tools I buy with special aluminium inserts, they have a steeper curve to their tip and are polished to evacuate the chips better. I now use better drill bits as well, with a special coating and super twice as short as the regular ones. They cut like butter and don't need pre-holes at all. That is why I said above to make sure to consider the tooling into the budget as this is super important

From what I understand though, I think our friend here had his eyes on much smaller lathes, I don't think you can do a lot of lightsaber parts with the super small micro lathes. There are some good ones of course, Proxxon does really good stuff but they are TINY and very expensive. It's going to be hard for you to find a good enough lathe that is not at least 80cm long or so and at least 50kg. the smaller stuff is mostly made for models guys and clock making.

I'm sorry if this wasn't what you were expecting BlackThorne , I hope the advice still helped a bit. I can honestly tell you that I was once in your situation, in a smaller rented appartement, and I looked at lathes for several years, hesitating if I could manage this or not and were I could put it in my appartement. I was reading a ton of message board where all the oldtimers were saying there was nothing good appart from the much older 500kg lathes and that you had to know your stuff before buying one second hand, it was terrible. There are always options, it's hit and miss, but there are still some smaller things that are good! but it the internet is full of those people were it seems you cannot do anything if you don't have something that costs 20k and weights a ton, it's crazy discouraging when you want to start and read those machining message boards. In the meantime, I was doing parts the best I could with a hand drill, rasps and sandpaper... It was still fun

cheers

 

[Halliwax]

thank you Danny, very kind of you
does that mean you are recommending even bigger a lathe to Blackthorne here? if we have the same kind of size lathe you and me, once again I really think this is hit and miss. I got rather lucky with mine, It had some issues with the shortcircuits, but appart from that, it has never failed me. I will probably have to change it eventually as I am driving it pretty hard every day, but I hope it works a bit longer for now!

My advice though is the tools, I changed my tool holder with a quick change turret I had to adapt to my lathe, and I only use carbide insert tools, and am replacing all the inserts from the tools I buy with special aluminium inserts, they have a steeper curve to their tip and are polished to evacuate the chips better. I now use better drill bits as well, with a special coating and super twice as short as the regular ones. They cut like butter and don't need pre-holes at all. That is why I said above to make sure to consider the tooling into the budget as this is super important

From what I understand though, I think our friend here had his eyes on much smaller lathes, I don't think you can do a lot of lightsaber parts with the super small micro lathes. There are some good ones of course, Proxxon does really good stuff but they are TINY and very expensive. It's going to be hard for you to find a good enough lathe that is not at least 80cm long or so and at least 50kg. the smaller stuff is mostly made for models guys and clock making.

I'm sorry if this wasn't what you were expecting BlackThorne , I hope the advice still helped a bit. I can honestly tell you that I was once in your situation, in a smaller rented appartement, and I looked at lathes for several years, hesitating if I could manage this or not and were I could put it in my appartement. I was reading a ton of message board where all the oldtimers were saying there was nothing good appart from the much older 500kg lathes and that you had to know your stuff before buying one second hand, it was terrible. There are always options, it's hit and miss, but there are still some smaller things that are good! but it the internet is full of those people were it seems you cannot do anything if you don't have something that costs 20k and weights a ton, it's crazy discouraging when you want to start and read those machining message boards. In the meantime, I was doing parts the best I could with a hand drill, rasps and sandpaper... It was still fun

cheers

7 in. x 12 in. Precision Benchtop Mini Lathe

Amazing deals on this 7In X 12In Precision Benchtop Mini Lathe at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

This is what I bought years ago, and have over 3k in repairs and upgrades

The power switch is fragile and breaks just by turning it on.. it’s to the point that I buy 3 switches at a time.. the potentiometers always melt.. I upgraded those

I installed a quick change post, deleted the safety switch, better gears, steady rests.. handles, pulleys..

So much I forget… I do know 1 year was over 1500.. that’s when I realized I’m beating a dead horse.. 7x12 is too small to hold a v1 hero that’s in 1 piece..

To this day I have watched every YouTube video out there how to part.. and I can not part on this thing to save my life.. even bought a 200 dollar parting tool.. nope.. doesn’t want to have it

I have a HUGE wwii south bend in storage.. once I build a garage and move my stuff into that, I’ll never have to deal with this problem again..

Last year I almost bought a new bench lathe, this one here I just can’t do what I want with.. and when I do attempt it I break it..

Maybe it’s me? But it amazes me I follow the YouTube videos step by step.. and it still fails

 

[eethan]

7 in. x 12 in. Precision Benchtop Mini Lathe

Amazing deals on this 7In X 12In Precision Benchtop Mini Lathe at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

This is what I bought years ago, and have over 3k in repairs and upgrades

The power switch is fragile and breaks just by turning it on.. it’s to the point that I buy 3 switches at a time.. the potentiometers always melt.. I upgraded those

I installed a quick change post, deleted the safety switch, better gears, steady rests.. handles, pulleys..

So much I forget… I do know 1 year was over 1500.. that’s when I realized I’m beating a dead horse.. 7x12 is too small to hold a v1 hero that’s in 1 piece..

To this day I have watched every YouTube video out there how to part.. and I can not part on this thing to save my life.. even bought a 200 dollar parting tool.. nope.. doesn’t want to have it

I have a HUGE wwii south bend in storage.. once I build a garage and move my stuff into that, I’ll never have to deal with this problem again..

Last year I almost bought a new bench lathe, this one here I just can’t do what I want with.. and when I do attempt it I break it..

Maybe it’s me? But it amazes me I follow the YouTube videos step by step.. and it still fails

yeah, it looks just slightly smaller/lighter than mine but it is rather similar from the first look.
That being said that is where the hit and miss happen. When i bought mine, there was two lines in the Bernardo range and the price wasn't much different, but one was called "hobby" and one "pro", you couldn't tell much from the characteristics, I guess the pro that I took was just slightly heavier, you never know were they save a bit of metal or cheap out a bit on the electronics or something.

now, I can completely relate to your issues with parting, to make you feel better, there is no way to part anything on my lathe either, i have also bought a lot of different tools and after like 5mm of depth it will start to vibrate and then go completely crazy. I just cut stuff with the metal band saw and work around to organize the machining steps so I can always hold my parts, cut them when needed and so on.
And knurling is hell for me as well, I try to avoid it as much as possible.
So yes, there are some things that you just can't do with the lathes that are not 500kg. You have to find work around for sure.

cheers

 

[Halliwax]

yeah, it looks just slightly smaller/lighter than mine but it is rather similar from the first look.
That being said that is where the hit and miss happen. When i bought mine, there was two lines in the Bernardo range and the price wasn't much different, but one was called "hobby" and one "pro", you couldn't tell much from the characteristics, I guess the pro that I took was just slightly heavier, you never know were they save a bit of metal or cheap out a bit on the electronics or something.

now, I can completely relate to your issues with parting, to make you feel better, there is no way to part anything on my lathe either, i have also bought a lot of different tools and after like 5mm of depth it will start to vibrate and then go completely crazy. I just cut stuff with the metal band saw and work around to organize the machining steps so I can always hold my parts, cut them when needed and so on.
And knurling is hell for me as well, I try to avoid it as much as possible.
So yes, there are some things that you just can't do with the lathes that are not 500kg. You have to find work around for sure.

cheers

You’d laugh at me how I part stuff.. I end up cutting the end off with a bandsaw and then putting it backwards in the lathe and finishing it that way..

I’m gonna loose my teeth again trying to part with this thing

I do not know how the guys on YouTube do it.. I’ve watched it with my own eyes, bought the same exact tool as them, try and match the same exact speed; I’ve even used the same cutting oil..

BOOOOOOM!!! Something breaks lol

 

[BlackThorne]

Not at all! This is exactly the advice I needed . I knew I didn't want some cheap chinese lathe but something reliable that would last for years (or forever?) and will be large enough so I can work on lightsaber hilt parts and other stuff. It probably has to be something in the ballpark of the Bernardo you have. Right now because of limited space it's just not realistic to get what I whould need, but I'm not going to stay in this apartment forever .

thank you Danny, very kind of you
does that mean you are recommending even bigger a lathe to Blackthorne here? if we have the same kind of size lathe you and me, once again I really think this is hit and miss. I got rather lucky with mine, It had some issues with the shortcircuits, but appart from that, it has never failed me. I will probably have to change it eventually as I am driving it pretty hard every day, but I hope it works a bit longer for now!

My advice though is the tools, I changed my tool holder with a quick change turret I had to adapt to my lathe, and I only use carbide insert tools, and am replacing all the inserts from the tools I buy with special aluminium inserts, they have a steeper curve to their tip and are polished to evacuate the chips better. I now use better drill bits as well, with a special coating and super twice as short as the regular ones. They cut like butter and don't need pre-holes at all. That is why I said above to make sure to consider the tooling into the budget as this is super important

From what I understand though, I think our friend here had his eyes on much smaller lathes, I don't think you can do a lot of lightsaber parts with the super small micro lathes. There are some good ones of course, Proxxon does really good stuff but they are TINY and very expensive. It's going to be hard for you to find a good enough lathe that is not at least 80cm long or so and at least 50kg. the smaller stuff is mostly made for models guys and clock making.

I'm sorry if this wasn't what you were expecting BlackThorne , I hope the advice still helped a bit. I can honestly tell you that I was once in your situation, in a smaller rented appartement, and I looked at lathes for several years, hesitating if I could manage this or not and were I could put it in my appartement. I was reading a ton of message board where all the oldtimers were saying there was nothing good appart from the much older 500kg lathes and that you had to know your stuff before buying one second hand, it was terrible. There are always options, it's hit and miss, but there are still some smaller things that are good! but it the internet is full of those people were it seems you cannot do anything if you don't have something that costs 20k and weights a ton, it's crazy discouraging when you want to start and read those machining message boards. In the meantime, I was doing parts the best I could with a hand drill, rasps and sandpaper... It was still fun

cheers

 

[eethan]

You’d laugh at me how I part stuff.. I end up cutting the end off with a bandsaw and then putting it backwards in the lathe and finishing it that way..

I’m gonna loose my teeth again trying to part with this thing

I do not know how the guys on YouTube do it.. I’ve watched it with my own eyes, bought the same exact tool as them, try and match the same exact speed; I’ve even used the same cutting oil..

BOOOOOOM!!! Something breaks lol

yeah, a lot of times, the guys on youtube have a huge machine. they sometimes have crapy tools but the machine will just take anything.
it's just what it is, parting on a 50kg machine with any kind of tool is always going to be hell or impossible.
same with knurling, i have bough so many toold, tightened everything as hard I could, eveytime I really push it, I can't believe how something on the lathe gets completely out of square when I stop it and the tool is not bitting into the material.
so once again, workarounds have to be found. I have already posted on my saber run thread, but it is a good example of one of my failures with the small lathe. On the left, knurling on the lathe, on the right, finding a workaround and milling everything on the milling machine instead because I can't give people the result I got on the left!

fun stuff!

 

[Halliwax]

Not at all! This is exactly the advice I needed . I knew I didn't want some cheap chinese lathe but something reliable that would last for years (or forever?) and will be large enough so I can work on lightsaber hilt parts and other stuff. It probably has to be something in the ballpark of the Bernardo you have. Right now because of limited space it's just not realistic to get what I whould need, but I'm not going to stay in this apartment forever .

Then do not buy what I posted lol

 

[Halliwax]

yeah, a lot of times, the guys on youtube have a huge machine. they sometimes have crapy tools but the machine will just take anything.
it's just what it is, parting on a 50kg machine with any kind of tool is always going to be hell or impossible.
same with knurling, i have bough so many toold, tightened everything as hard I could, eveytime I really push it, I can't believe how something on the lathe gets completely out of square when I stop it and the tool is not bitting into the material.
so once again, workarounds have to be found. I have already posted on my saber run thread, but it is a good example of one of my failures with the small lathe. On the left, knurling on the lathe, on the right, finding a workaround and milling everything on the milling machine instead because I can't give people the result I got on the left!
View attachment 1768822

fun stuff!

That’s art

 

[eethan]

Not at all! This is exactly the advice I needed . I knew I didn't want some cheap chinese lathe but something reliable that would last for years (or forever?) and will be large enough so I can work on lightsaber hilt parts and other stuff. It probably has to be something in the ballpark of the Bernardo you have. Right now because of limited space it's just not realistic to get what I whould need, but I'm not going to stay in this apartment forever .

nice
another quick advice, since you are in europe, the website optimachine is pretty often recommanded, as the made in chine machines are supposedly sent to germany where they are setup before being sold. From my experience, they are coming from china directly, not stoping to Germany, and they are just rebranded machines that you can find in other places for much cheaper.
This is not a definitive comment, I'm not saying, don't buy on that website, but definitely do you research on the things because they are very expensive for what they are.
cheers

 

[cwoodreplicas]

I use a WARCO Lathe - Warco | Buy Lathe, Milling Machine, Engineering Tools

UK based so maybe not for you - but they're well build, solid as a rock and can take a lot. Tolerances are very good.

 

[eethan]

I read a lot of good recommendations for those warco lathes when I was trying to decide what to buy. The only issue was they were in the UK.

 

[BlackThorne]

yeah, a lot of times, the guys on youtube have a huge machine. they sometimes have crapy tools but the machine will just take anything.
it's just what it is, parting on a 50kg machine with any kind of tool is always going to be hell or impossible.
same with knurling, i have bough so many toold, tightened everything as hard I could, eveytime I really push it, I can't believe how something on the lathe gets completely out of square when I stop it and the tool is not bitting into the material.
so once again, workarounds have to be found. I have already posted on my saber run thread, but it is a good example of one of my failures with the small lathe. On the left, knurling on the lathe, on the right, finding a workaround and milling everything on the milling machine instead because I can't give people the result I got on the left!
View attachment 1768822

fun stuff!

That looks beautiful! What kind of machine did you do that on?

 

[eethan]

That looks beautiful! What kind of machine did you do that on?

that's a rod turned on the lathe, but then, I milled all the line on my milling machine, Otimum MH 20VL.
then I cut the rod into tiny rods with my bandsaw and beveled the edges with the lathe again.
This should have normally be all done on the lathe with a knurling tool, but as I explained before, it is very troublesome to do knurling on a small lathe as it requires a lot of pressure from the tool and the tool holder on my lathe is just not strong enough for this.
It works better with diagonal knurling, but parrallel knurling like this is always hell!
cheers

 

[scarf man]

To echo what has been said, tooling. You will need tools for the tool, drills, chucks, centers, holders, measuring tools, Allen keys, lights, files, the tools, the tools, the tools. A good calculator and machinist handbook for common figures and operations are a must as well.