SDS Court case

[Trallis]

oh come on guys... matt cant be talked about cause he isnt here to defend himself?.?. AA has taken way worse than this from forum members here for years now.

but i have to say.. i cant listen to people say TE is wrong fr helping LFL fight AA. TE may be a fellow prop maker, but he is not like AA. TE tells us what he is selling us.. ok maybe he lied in the past too maybe he didnt, naybe hes self serving, who knows. the point is TE did not rip off thousands of fans by lying flat out about what he was selling. telling them it was something it was not to make a cheap buck off prop fans. when we buy TE, we know what we're getting. on that level, he is far more ethical than AA is. many people here, if given the option would testify against AA themselves. Why? becausewe've been here and obtained a great deal of knowledge and know the truth. I suppose my point of view does rely on the belief that AA recast his helmets and parts. to be fair, i realize we arent all in agreement on this, but i believe it to be true and my opinion is based on it.
btw I didnt want to personally mention anyone but this post was way out of bounds:
<div class='quotetop'>(Lord Abaddon @ Sep 25 2006, 07:05 PM) [snapback]1326203[/snapback]</div>

I've been around long enough to see some foul, sick-minded people on this forum, from Guy Raz to Paul Francis, to others that really have screwed around, lied, cheated and stole. But for TE to go out there, when he himself is a blatant illegal producer of copyrighted materials, the very things he is helping take AA out for...makes my stomach turn. I knew he was as sick man, but this takes the cake.
[/b]

come on man.. TE more sick minded than GUY RAZ? your posts are usually well thought out and reasonable. with that kind of thing you lose all credibility. Not to mention, why randomly bring up old things that only make people more angry. you're throwing salt in old wounds just so you can make your words seem somehow more significant. come back to earth

 

[Trallis]

<div class='quotetop'>(Keith @ Sep 26 2006, 09:48 AM) [snapback]1326592[/snapback]</div>

The worst i personally hope would happen to AA is that he would be forced to refund in full anyone who bought one of his replicas who wanted their money back and that he would not be allowed to sell his replicas anymore.
AA's website still tells people that his replica helmets are from the molds that made the orignals, but i believe that there would be no problem proving otherwise if he was taken to court for false advertising and an original helmet and his "original" molds were available as evidence.

Keith.
[/b]

Keith, I totally i agree with all the things you said. I personally would rather allow him to continue selling, give any refunds to people who wanted them after knowing what the helmets really are, and that he be made to tell the truth about what he is selling since he makes these claims about it. but really, its nice to see more prop makers than less.


more thoughts on TE:
consider this, AA is selling something which is derived(in some way) from an item TE makes his money from, in a way most of us agree with. AA is taking this, making his own thing from it with no compensation and selling it, claiming it to be something much better, and laughing in his face.

 

[Lord Abaddon]

<div class='quotetop'>(Trallis @ Sep 26 2006, 10:03 AM) [snapback]1326646[/snapback]</div>

btw I didnt want to personally mention anyone but this post was way out of bounds:
<div class='quotetop'>(Lord Abaddon @ Sep 25 2006, 07:05 PM) [snapback]1326203[/snapback]

I've been around long enough to see some foul, sick-minded people on this forum, from Guy Raz to Paul Francis, to others that really have screwed around, lied, cheated and stole. But for TE to go out there, when he himself is a blatant illegal producer of copyrighted materials, the very things he is helping take AA out for...makes my stomach turn. I knew he was as sick man, but this takes the cake.
[/b]

come on man.. TE more sick minded than GUY RAZ? your posts are usually well thought out and reasonable. with that kind of thing you lose all credibility. Not to mention, why randomly bring up old things that only make people more angry. you're throwing salt in old wounds just so you can make your words seem somehow more significant. come back to earth
[/b][/quote]

Hi Trallis, I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

I did not say TE was "more sick minded than GUY RAZ" (which is pretty impossible) but I was talking about honorable actions or attitudes, hence why I mentioned PF, etc. and was more talking about how Guy snowballed everyone with his false membership here.

The main thing is that TE made (still makes?) illegal copies of licensed replicas as many do. He has been involved in that "market" for many, many years. He has directly obtained and owned items that were LFL property to make his business succeed. He crowed and advertised about his wares on this and other forums (though trying to keep it somewhat on the sly). In other words his actions were as "illegal" as AA's with the only difference being AA's blatant advertising. I can't say if TE was ever C&D like AA, but we do know AA did toss that aside.

So what we have here is someone who was doing exactly the same, with similar "original" materials, for profit, and who in the end is ratting out a competitor so he can make his own deal with the copyright holder.

And what does this make LFL look like? Hypocrites. They are willing to hire a known illegal prop maker of notariaty to take out another alleged illegal prop maker or new notariaty. (I say known for TE because we know he owns nothing from LFL, did not work for LFL, and had nothing to do with the making of the film. AA we know does own some molds (yet to be determined), did work for LFL, and was involved in the making of the film so until the UK court decides it sits at "alleged").

Frankly this scenario is bad for the hobby, for LFL (at least in the replica prop community who know the players), and for ST helmet and armor makers who don't know where the gun might point next.

 

[Lodril]

It seems like you guys are giving a lot of importance to TE's role in all this. My understanding is that he only served as an expert witness regarding the truth of SDS's claim to be using the original molds. If SDS were using the original molds, the Lanham act claim would probably be gone.

As an expert witness, his role would have been to compare original source material to the SDS molds and helmets, and then give testimony regarding the liklihood they were the same. SDS, had they not defaulted, would have been able to cross-examine him and challenge his findings, as well as putting up their own expert to counter his testimony. In the event of the default, it's more like he said, "They look different to me." and no one replied, so the judge accepted that as fact.

That's it. Hardly a poisoned knife to the back, since I've seen a number of other people challenge the veracity of the SDS claim before on these very boards.

As for why TE, from LFL's position, they needed to find someone who was a third party who could demonstrate expertise in TK helmet design features. So, imagine there you are, scanning the net for some sort of expert, and there's a guy called "Trooper Expert" who makes his own fan helmets from scratch and studies various references intently. All they did was ask him to compare A to B, and he did so for compensation. Hardly seems like major league treachery to me... particularly when he could reasonably expect SDS to come back with their own analysis. The end result of all that would, hopefully, prove whether the helmet molds were the originals or not, which is arguably a service to the fan community, rather than a betrayal.

The converse situation, where he is testifying as to sales, or other information, places him as a regular witness, rather than an expert witness. If that's the case, then he'd just be served with a subpoena, called to the stand, sworn in under penalty of perjury. Refusing to testify then would place him in contempt of court.

I don't know (or particularly care) whether the SDS molds were originals or not, but it seems like attacking someone for being a witness undermines the legal bedrock of civil society. I can understand not wanting people to start fights against each other, or somehow get one another in trouble... but trouble was already there. Asking that anyone should refuse to tell the truth, or should go to jail for contempt of court in order to protect their fellow hobbyists is just bizarre.

 

[AnsonJames]

<div class='quotetop'>(Trallis @ Sep 26 2006, 04:18 PM) [snapback]1326657[/snapback]</div>

consider this, AA is selling something which is derived(in some way) from an item TE makes his money from, in a way most of us agree with. AA is taking this, making his own thing from it with no compensation and selling it, claiming it to be something much better, and laughing in his face.
[/b]

Are you saying that AA copied his stuff from TE.?

Whatever side of the fence you're sitting AA has exactly the same rights as TE to sell
Stormtrooper armour and helmets.

You can't criticize one without criticizing the other.

They're both violating copyright...

 

[Trallis]

<div class='quotetop'>(Lord Abaddon @ Sep 26 2006, 11:31 AM) [snapback]1326665[/snapback]</div>

Hi Trallis, I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

I did not say TE was "more sick minded than GUY RAZ" (which is pretty impossible) but I was talking about honorable actions or attitudes, hence why I mentioned PF, etc. and was more talking about how Guy snowballed everyone with his false membership here.
[/b]

thanks for the response. i understand your statement about raz, etc. now. i still do not agree with your aa and te stance however, but i do appreciate you explaining

<div class='quotetop'>(AnsonJames @ Sep 26 2006, 11:36 AM) [snapback]1326671[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying that AA copied his stuff from TE.?

Whatever side of the fence you're sitting AA has exactly the same rights as TE to sell
Stormtrooper armour and helmets.

You can't criticize one without criticizing the other.

They're both violating copyright...
[/b]

well, aside from the fact that we are not completely sure that aa was even the sculptor of the helmet, i agree that TE has a certain level of rights to the helmets that he originally made. These do not include making false claims about a product. If he told me he recast an item because it was originally his work anyway and wanted to bring people the product but from the true maker, i would respect that. i wouldnt buy one, but i'd have alot more respect. the problem is, few would spend $800 on it

 

[atacpdx]

LA,

Do we have proof Matt is "selling out" AA? Also, some things to consider.....

Had AA complied with the C&D it likely would have ended there so who really is to "blame" for this threat to the hobby you seem to perceive...

It is common for licensed folks like MR to compile lists of those unlicensed folks who pose a threat and sell them out to the studios. For all we know TE is cutting a license deal or partnering with MR (pure conjecture disclaimer).

What if LFL came to TE/or any other bootlegger and said, look we are going to nail AA. You can help us or we'll nail you also. Does it make them a bad guy for covering their own ass/business/home?


You and others keep posting as if it is fact he is a part of AA's woes yet I still have seen ZERO proof offered here...WHY?

Bottom line, even if SATAN himself is aiding LFL, AA has no one to blame but himself for his current woes. All the conjecture, mudslinging, invoking of hobby demons (you know the names) etc. won't change that fact. I suspect that whether it is TE, JEZ or a few others, if we looked close, we'd find some rather unique and somewhat unsavory connections to AA or this case in one way or another. This thread was about the legal case. If you guys want to blow hot air without proof, start a "My friend has shady connections to the AA case he doesn't want known so I'm misdirecting and obfuscating while the AA haters rally and stick pins in AA dolls" thread....

okay?.? :angel

 

[Trallis]

i guess i also failed to mention copyright infringement never bothered me in either case. i own and have owned several copyright infringing helmets. im in it for the art form. lfl aint getting any closer to selling a licensed accurate st helmet.

heres a loose comparison. say the beatles noticed some good coverband was making all kinds of money off their stuff without permission. the beatles dont own their music rights either nowadays i believe. lets assume this is true. they take one of these recordings and add a few extra sounds and put some static to make it sound older. they release a new cd filled with "beatles original never before released recordings of classic songs". get what i mean?

<div class='quotetop'>(atacpdx @ Sep 26 2006, 11:49 AM) [snapback]1326680[/snapback]</div>

Bottom line, even if SATAN himself is aiding LFL, AA has no one to blame but himself for his current woes.
[/b]

i thought we already knew satan was helping george make his recent films . sorry just some humor for a heated thread.

 

[SithLord]

conflict of interest

Nobody denies a conflict of interest, but what bearing does that have on the facts if they are indead the real facts? I know for a fact that many pro-AA camp members have a conflict of interest in regards to having priority on low number helmets, lower prices, and... But, let me guess that conflict of interest doesn't count does it?

If as you say people actually did get some privaledge by being good customers of SDS, I do not see them encouraging or assist LFL to go after other replica prop makers. I can show you I had to pay through the nose for mine .

<div class='quotetop'>(gizmo @ Sep 26 2006, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1326522[/snapback]</div>

Sure, talk about Matt being involved but don`t make up stories about how
he is involved or how he got involved unless you have proof thats all I`m saying.
There`s alot of mudslinging going on around here without any proof.


Ben
[/b]

No different than how you guys have consistently treated AA on this forum from day one. So don't cry foul involking the COC the moment one of your own gets exposed.

 

[atacpdx]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Sep 26 2006, 04:05 PM) [snapback]1326685[/snapback]</div>

No different than how you guys have consistently treated AA on this forum from day one. So don't cry foul involking the COC the moment one of your own gets exposed.
[/b]

Thank you Sithlord for answering my question. There is no proof, just speculation and mudslinging justified by "well they did it to AA 1st". And here I foolishly thought we were discussing the legal case....

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(Gytheran @ Sep 26 2006, 09:37 AM) [snapback]1326583[/snapback]</div>

You remember that little C&D he receieved and thumbed his nose at?

Had it been me, I would have halted sales immediately following the C&D. THEN, I would look into securing the rights over the material, if I truly felt I had ownership. Somehow this makes more sense than causing the mess he has put himself in.

Condemning TE for assisting LFL(probably a wise move for TE) is rather laughable, considering you advertised for AA, drumming up countless sales for a product which sold under false pretenses and has a HIGHLY questionable lineage. :rolleyes

Black kettle, indeed.
[/b]

Gytheran, you fail to realize that if AA acknowledged the C&D, then legally he would be acknowledging the rights of LFL and there would be no point in persuing action against LFL for the rights. :confused

Bingo brought to the RPF previews of the helmets for us to critique and examine long before they went on sale. We all had a role in the development of AA's products (.). To say that he was drumming up sales is entirely inaccurate since I don't recall seeing him posting interest threads in the JY.

So I fail to see how attempting to point a finger at Bingo bolsters your own support of TE.

 

[Jedirick]

<div class='quotetop'>(atacpdx @ Sep 26 2006, 11:49 AM) [snapback]1326680[/snapback]</div>

Bottom line, even if SATAN himself is aiding LFL, AA has no one to blame but himself for his current woes.



[/b]

Words well spent.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(Trallis @ Sep 26 2006, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1326646[/snapback]</div>

TE may be a fellow prop maker, but he is not like AA. TE tells us what he is selling us.. ok maybe he lied in the past too maybe he didnt, naybe hes self serving, who knows. the point is TE did not rip off thousands of fans by lying flat out about what he was selling. telling them it was something it was not to make a cheap buck off prop fans. when we buy TE, we know what we're getting. on that level, he is far more ethical than AA is. many people here, if given the option would testify against AA themselves.
[/b]

You speak of ethics in relation to TE? You seem to forget something here. AA produced the original helmets and armor for Star Wars. Remember? There's no way you can compare TE and AA insofar that TE has some rights over AA. He has none whatsoever when it comes to trooper helmets or armor. And, incidentally, you are stating here that TE was selling replicas. And what is this statement "may people here, if given the option would testify against AA themselves." They can speak for themselves here, can they not? Let's not use the argument "everyone thinks like me" as it doesn't hold water.

And consider this for a moment....what if the accusations against AA regarding the original molds are wrong and he does have the original molds? Because of this legal action, they might be destroyed. That's the real sad thing here if it comes to that. And there is also a deep irony there as well. We will never know the real answers.....and excuse my french but that sucks.

 

[exoray]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Sep 26 2006, 07:49 AM) [snapback]1326554[/snapback]</div>

Lets be clear on this. If Andrew Ainsworth is hit by just one tenth of the damages LFL seeks then he will most surely lose everything, a business built over 30 years, his home etc. etc. Now IÂ’m sure there are those who will say that if this happens then its his own fault. Maybe.

However, the fact that Trooper Expert, probably the leading provider of unlicensed replica helmets and Armour, is providing LFL with the ammunition it will use in order to try and bury AA, verges on a sick joke if it were not true.
[/b]

Talk about passing the buck... Lets get on thing clear AA is 100% responsible for his own actions sheesh.

If AA loses his business, his home etc etc it's soley because HE was so damn ignorant to go into this business venture himself and not fold and cut a deal when he could... You can try and put a spin on it anyway you want but just like 99% of all other people found liable HE himself brought this upon himself and He (and you) can point the finger all day, but in the end HE has only himself to blame for his actions. If making paddles was such a good deal for him he should have stayed clear of something he gave up 30 years ago... But he got greedy plain and simple and saw an easy way to expliot a large sum of money at LFL expense... Sorry but I won't feel sorry for a guy that made a large six figure salary and didn't have the time of day to defend himself, but rather tucked tail and ran, all the while continuing to compound the damages and his infringments still to this day...

Did your mother every asked you "if your friends jumped off a bridge would you?" The same logic applies we make our own choices in life, as kids we try and pass the buck but as adults most of use learn to owe up to our mistakes...

And FACT the case was OVER before TE even gave one bit of testimony... AA had already lost because HE walked out of court and HE didn't care to defend himself...

Read the judgement, it is 100% based on the original claims and granted because AA walked out on the courts, nothing TE said or any of the other testimonies had any real bearing... That is a fact, did you see the Judge even ONCE reference anything short of the original complaint when issuing the Judgement...

Read the Judgement again and please do try and tell everyone how the big bad TE did this to AA,. the wording is painfully clear that the Judge ruled his way because AA snubbed his nose at the courts, and he states this multiple times in the judgment... That is the reason AA lost because of HIS actions regardless of the shoot the messenger mentality around here, AA is the only one that can be blamed for his actions...

 

[Gytheran]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Sep 26 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]1326693[/snapback]</div>

Gytheran, you fail to realize that if AA acknowledged the C&D, then legally he would be acknowledging the rights of LFL and there would be no point in persuing action against LFL for the rights. :confused
[/b]

That has got to be one of the biggest loads of BS I've read yet... :lol

Silly man, You don't lose your rights simply by acknowledging a C&D.

Well, not in the US...

It's called being cautious. It's what you do when you're faced with losing everything you've spent your entire life working towards.

For the rest, read it again. Nothing there says he sold the helmets. :confused :lol

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(Lodril @ Sep 26 2006, 11:35 AM) [snapback]1326667[/snapback]</div>

As an expert witness, his role would have been to compare original source material to the SDS molds and helmets, and then give testimony regarding the liklihood they were the same. SDS, had they not defaulted, would have been able to cross-examine him and challenge his findings, as well as putting up their own expert to counter his testimony. In the event of the default, it's more like he said, "They look different to me." and no one replied, so the judge accepted that as fact.

That's it. Hardly a poisoned knife to the back, since I've seen a number of other people challenge the veracity of the SDS claim before on these very boards.

All they did was ask him to compare A to B, and he did so for compensation. Hardly seems like major league treachery to me... particularly when he could reasonably expect SDS to come back with their own analysis. The end result of all that would, hopefully, prove whether the helmet molds were the originals or not, which is arguably a service to the fan community, rather than a betrayal.
[/b]

Again, there are things here you are not considering for whatever reason. The fact is, TE nor LFL compared original source material to the original molds. AA has. So there's nothing substantive that TE could provide in relation to the original molds except his reliance on how the SDS helmets look. Since the original molds were repaired, of course there will be differences and AA discussed that on his website long before the complaint to appease this forum.

You say "all they did was ask him...". That's a question I have. Was TE approached by LFL or did he approach LFL? If it is the former, then LFL picked the wrong person because of the conflict of interest. If they approached him, they would have to ask him if there was a conflict of interest in being a witness. By law he would have had to say that there is. Clearly he did not say that because clearly LFL used him as an expert witness. If it was the latter, that TE approached LFL, AND did not indicate that there was a conflict of interest, that is even worse.

So you are saying oh all TE did was help out LFL since he is an expert. Isn't it easy to say that while neglecting to consider that he is a major producer of unlicensed stormtrooper helmets and armor AND that he attempted to start a working relationship with AA AND he's now assisted LFL in discrediting AA from a legal standpoint?

Do you notice how LFL has only recently taken the opportunity of this default to ADD TO THE ORDER that AA has no contribution to the Star Wars production? Gee, I wonder who thought of that angle? We have heard that angle here for a long time, so it's sad to see it echoed in what LFL lawyers are drafting up. It really is a sad time for the hobby IMHO.

 

[atacpdx]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Sep 26 2006, 04:14 PM) [snapback]1326693[/snapback]</div>

Gytheran, you fail to realize that if AA acknowledged the C&D, then legally he would be acknowledging the rights of LFL and there would be no point in persuing action against LFL for the rights. :confused
[/b]

Ummmmm hello....logic? Did logic just leave the 'verse? Hello?????? Cue Twilight zone theme.....

Sithlord by what twisted, impossible to follow, zapped on crack logic do you reach that statement?

AA has not "pursued" his supposed rights to the trooper stuff at any point in this drama.

To pursue something implies you are the one doing the chasing...not the one being chased.

When last I checked, the one being chased was doing the fleeing. :thumbsup

Seriously, had AA "pursued" his perceived rights, he'd be the one suing LFL. In fact during his opportunity to stand his ground and "pursue" his right to produce, he no showed. Your statement above is a twist/re-write of history of comical proportions. It is like a kid who failed to show behind the school gym for a fight later saying "I sure showed that bully. I pursued him relentlessly and kicked his backside." At best AA's legal maneuvers thus far could be called dodging or delaying. Hardly pursuing though. And before you throw the same tired "you just hate AA" crap at me, remember, I neither like nore dislike AA or his "camp" but rather have a professional interest/curiousity/enjoyment in analyzing the legal case itself.

By the way, Sithlord, Jez, LA or whoever, still waiting for the links / proof connecting TE to this drama in any way shape or form....Are those crickets I hear?

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(AnsonJames @ Sep 26 2006, 11:36 AM) [snapback]1326671[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying that AA copied his stuff from TE.?

Whatever side of the fence you're sitting AA has exactly the same rights as TE to sell
Stormtrooper armour and helmets.

You can't criticize one without criticizing the other.

They're both violating copyright...
[/b]

Actually that's a very good point...regardless of whether AA has rights or not....TE is not in a good position to put it mildly. I would qualify that by saying that if AA doesn't have rights...then they both do not have rights. Either way, TE is in a very difficult position.

 

[Gytheran]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Sep 26 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1326718[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(AnsonJames @ Sep 26 2006, 11:36 AM) [snapback]1326671[/snapback]

Are you saying that AA copied his stuff from TE.?

Whatever side of the fence you're sitting AA has exactly the same rights as TE to sell
Stormtrooper armour and helmets.

You can't criticize one without criticizing the other.

They're both violating copyright...
[/b]

Actually that's a very good point...regardless of whether AA has rights or not....TE is not in a good position to put it mildly. I would qualify that by saying that if AA doesn't have rights...then they both do not have rights. Either way, TE is in a very difficult position.
[/b][/quote]


:lol

If TE is assisting LFL, I would wager TE is not in a "very difficult position". :lol

 

[exoray]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Can ANYONE show proof that TE was the "expert" referred to (no name was stated in the court papers)? Or, is this just mindless speculation because he used the word "Expert" in his screen name and has also stated that he is a consultant for LFL?[/b]

TE did give a written testimony supporting the motion for judgement...

But, as I have clearly stated the case was all wrapped up at that point, AA skipped town, all that was left was to plug in the dollar amount and that was done based soley on the original complaint filed by LFL and an estimate of continuing violations...