SDS Court case

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Sep 30 2006, 12:11 PM) [snapback]1329387[/snapback]</div>

Just in case there is still any confusion let me say this.

All the stunt helmets outside of sharpness of pull, trimming and assembly are the same.

Only 1 set of molds for those.
Hero faceplates are obviously different.
[/b]

Correct about there being only one set of molds, but incorrect about the helmets being the same. The evidence sits right in front of the Shepperton Design Studios back in 1976. Look at the variation in the shape of the tubes alone...the TE helmet is just one variation, not a standard by any means.

<div class='quotetop'>(Keith @ Sep 30 2006, 12:53 PM) [snapback]1329405[/snapback]</div>

What did you use the word "expert" for?

Keith.
[/b]

Because that was the best photo you could find, it's a prototype, and it's not even your own helmet?

 

[GINO]

Shape of the tubes is dictated partially by the sharpness of the pull but mostly how it's assembled.

Still, only 1 mold.

And the SDS stuff does not match ANY.
The best thing the SDS has going for it is its faceplate (which is still incorrect).
The cap/back and earcaps are practically scratch builds.
They do not match ANY version of screen used helmet.

 

[SethB6025]

Sorry, vac formed stuff won't vary THAT much. The difference you are seeing there in the tubes is due to the assembly. No amount of squiggly blue lines or yellow arrows, or red lines will ever change that the SDS is clearly not what it was claimed to be. Even if you can whitewash the other differences, please someone tell me with a straight face that the ears are original. Anyone?
Seeing as this is a thread about the court case, I think the obvious differences in documented real helmets vs. the SDS buckets is enough to destroy any claim to original moulds. With that said, I hope AA gets off the hook. Getting pegged for lying & recasting would be one thing, but getting obliterated by LFL is way more than most anyone deserves.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

<div class='quotetop'>(SethB6025 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:25 PM) [snapback]1329418[/snapback]</div>

Seeing as this is a thread about the court case, I think the obvious differences in documented real helmets vs. the SDS buckets is enough to destroy any claim to original moulds. With that said, I hope AA gets off the hook. Getting pegged for lying & recasting would be one thing, but getting obliterated by LFL is way more than most anyone deserves.
[/b]

I don't hope he gets off the hook. He thumbed his nose at LFL, recast items and sold them as his own and is passing off his items as "Original" molds. He deserves every bit of bad karma he has coming. He brought down whatever wrath LFL dishes out for him.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Sep 30 2006, 01:23 PM) [snapback]1329416[/snapback]</div>

Shape of the tubes is dictated partially by the sharpness of the pull but mostly how it's assembled.
[/b]

If you can't even see the variation in the shape of the tubes in those photos, then there's no point discussing it. That shape in profile of the thickness of the tubes has nothing to do with assembly, nor with sharpness.

By request...the eyes and teeth are scaled in overlay...so the sizing is accurate.

 

[GINO]

I really don't know what else to say to help you understand.

The tube sections before assembly are completely flimsy. They will take on whatever shape that is dictated to them by the curvature of the lowver part of the earcaps. I could take my faceplate and easily with my finger and thumb, gently squish it into just about any position I wanted. Fat, skinny, whatever.

Sometimes I think that if only I were to send one of my helmets to Thomas for him to keep, all would become clear to him. He would immediately understand everything we've ever tried to show and all this would end.
But then I remembered that for that to work I'd actually have to send one to him. :unsure

 

[Keith]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Sep 30 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]1329410[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Sep 30 2006, 12:11 PM) [snapback]1329387[/snapback]

Just in case there is still any confusion let me say this.

All the stunt helmets outside of sharpness of pull, trimming and assembly are the same.

Only 1 set of molds for those.
Hero faceplates are obviously different.
[/b]

Correct about there being only one set of molds, but incorrect about the helmets being the same. The evidence sits right in front of the Shepperton Design Studios back in 1976. Look at the variation in the shape of the tubes alone...the TE helmet is just one variation, not a standard by any means.

<div class='quotetop'>(Keith @ Sep 30 2006, 12:53 PM) [snapback]1329405[/snapback]</div>

What did you use the word "expert" for?

Keith.
[/b]

Because that was the best photo you could find, it's a prototype, and it's not even your own helmet?
[/b][/quote]

Who says its the best photo i can find? It was posted here a few days ago so it was an easy find and its one that is not taken from a biased angle.
How can i post a picture of my own SDS helmet when i don't own one?
I still don't see why you used the word "expert" though. Being a bit sarcastic and childish there i think.

I don't know how you can say the shape of the tubes has nothing to do with assembly. All you have to do is look at the picture i posted on the other page:

Also, are you going back to saying the the real helmets are larger? Have you seen an orignal helmet in person?

Keith.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

It might just be worth it Gino... :lol




<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Sep 30 2006, 12:51 PM) [snapback]1329441[/snapback]</div>

I really don't know what else to say to help you understand.

The tube sections before assembly are completely flimsy. They will take on whatever shape that is dictated to them by the curvature of the lowver part of the earcaps. I could take my faceplate and easily with my finger and thumb, gently squish it into just about any position I wanted. Fat, skinny, whatever.

Sometimes I think that if only I were to send one of my helmets to Thomas for him to keep, all would become clear to him. He would immediately understand everything we've ever tried to show and all this would end.
But then I remembered that for that to work I'd actually have to send one to him. :unsure
[/b]

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(Qui-Gonzalez @ Sep 30 2006, 05:30 PM) [snapback]1329423[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(SethB6025 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:25 PM) [snapback]1329418[/snapback]

Seeing as this is a thread about the court case, I think the obvious differences in documented real helmets vs. the SDS buckets is enough to destroy any claim to original moulds. With that said, I hope AA gets off the hook. Getting pegged for lying & recasting would be one thing, but getting obliterated by LFL is way more than most anyone deserves.
[/b]

I don't hope he gets off the hook. He thumbed his nose at LFL, recast items and sold them as his own and is passing off his items as "Original" molds. He deserves every bit of bad karma he has coming. He brought down whatever wrath LFL dishes out for him.
[/b][/quote]

This is the kind of post that really shows someones true colours.

That "thumbing his nose" comment is one that Jhyphen used over and over again so it bacame like a mantra over at the BZ. In producing illegal replica items for 6 years (and still is with his fiberglass helmet) is Trooper Expert not "thumbing his nose at LFL"?

TE also recast others work, AA's in fact - but I presume you think that was okay

I love the way you guys draw this line in the sand and so conveniently pronounce right and wrong to suit your own terms or agenda

Cheers

Jez

 

[exoray]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]1329456[/snapback]</div>

That "thumbing his nose" comment is one that Jhyphen used over and over again so it bacame like a mantra over at the BZ
[/b]

Please the Judge even summed it up as so, although using in different words...

If you don't believe ignoring a C&D, ignoring a complaint, ignoring the US legal system and continuing sales after judgement isn't "thumbing his nose" then what exactly would be?

<div class='quotetop'></div>

In producing illegal replica items for 6 years (and still is with his fiberglass helmet) is Trooper Expert not "thumbing his nose at LFL"?[/b]

Well since he obviously has a working relationship with LFL, I wouldn't reach that far... It's not like they would have any problem locating him, and pounding him down if they felt he was thumbing his nose at them... There is and obvioulsy has been more to this story then what is public...

I guess all the people that claim LFL going after AA was unjust, want LFL to react the equally across the board or nothing? Yeah just imaging that no more R2, C3Po, vader, trooper, Fett, blasters and the list could go on...

 

[DarkLordSalvo]

I try to just sit back and enjoy these threads, but:
"TE also recast others work, AA's in fact - but I presume you think that was okay."

I believe you incorrectly used the term "recast" in your last statement. Yes, TE copied an original helmet, but didn't he own it or was being loaned to him for that purpose? And he never once (I believe) said his weren't a copy from a real helmet, not a "brother from the same molds" of the originals like AA does.

Big difference between casting an original yourself and recasting someone else's copy. We should know this by now. Especially the BIG DOGS in this hobby should anyway.

 

[AnsonJames]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Here's mine compared to your "expert" reference photo :lol

[/b]

skills constructing top notch trooper helmets.

I don't really think there's any call for sarcastic remarks like this in relation to Keiths reference images.
I think he made the point he wanted to make.
Lets not forget about Keiths ability to construct perfect looking trooper helmets.

Most of us respect his observations in these matters.









Edited - spelling + content

 

[-... . .- --..]

<div class='quotetop'>(DarkLordSalvo @ Sep 30 2006, 03:51 PM) [snapback]1329485[/snapback]</div>

I believe you incorrectly used the term "recast" in your last statement. Yes, TE copied an original helmet, but didn't he own it or was being loaned to him for that purpose? And he never once (I believe) said his weren't a copy from a real helmet, not a "brother from the same molds" of the originals like AA does.

Big difference between casting an original yourself and recasting someone else's copy. We should know this by now. Especially the BIG DOGS in this hobby should anyway.
[/b]

Actually, any copy of an original casting is re-cast, by definition.

We can talk about the number of generations from the original casting, but "recast" is in fact an appropriate description of any derivative reproduction.

 

[hydin]

<div class='quotetop'>(-... . .- --.. @ Sep 30 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]1329499[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(DarkLordSalvo @ Sep 30 2006, 03:51 PM) [snapback]1329485[/snapback]

I believe you incorrectly used the term "recast" in your last statement. Yes, TE copied an original helmet, but didn't he own it or was being loaned to him for that purpose? And he never once (I believe) said his weren't a copy from a real helmet, not a "brother from the same molds" of the originals like AA does.

Big difference between casting an original yourself and recasting someone else's copy. We should know this by now. Especially the BIG DOGS in this hobby should anyway.
[/b]

Actually, any copy of an original casting is re-cast, by definition.

We can talk about the number of generations from the original casting, but "recast" is in fact an appropriate description of any derivative reproduction.
[/b][/quote]

i gotta admit, i agree with this 100%. if you copy someone elses work, be it original, screen used, prototyped or just stuff they made in thier garage, its still recasting.

chris

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Sep 30 2006, 02:27 PM) [snapback]1329456[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(Qui-Gonzalez @ Sep 30 2006, 05:30 PM) [snapback]1329423[/snapback]

<div class='quotetop'>(SethB6025 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:25 PM) [snapback]1329418[/snapback]

Seeing as this is a thread about the court case, I think the obvious differences in documented real helmets vs. the SDS buckets is enough to destroy any claim to original moulds. With that said, I hope AA gets off the hook. Getting pegged for lying & recasting would be one thing, but getting obliterated by LFL is way more than most anyone deserves.
[/b]

I don't hope he gets off the hook. He thumbed his nose at LFL, recast items and sold them as his own and is passing off his items as "Original" molds. He deserves every bit of bad karma he has coming. He brought down whatever wrath LFL dishes out for him.
[/b][/quote]

This is the kind of post that really shows someones true colours.

That "thumbing his nose" comment is one that Jhyphen used over and over again so it bacame like a mantra over at the BZ. In producing illegal replica items for 6 years (and still is with his fiberglass helmet) is Trooper Expert not "thumbing his nose at LFL"?

TE also recast others work, AA's in fact - but I presume you think that was okay

I love the way you guys draw this line in the sand and so conveniently pronounce right and wrong to suit your own terms or agenda

Cheers

Jez
[/b][/quote]
I'm curious as to what else you would call it if not thumbing the nose? I have used "Flipped the bird", "Thumbed the nose" and various other euphemisms to describe what it is that Ainsworth did in regards to LFL. Also, you are still under the assumption that the helmets are Ainsworth's to "recast". Did Ainsworth still have an "original" helmet to cast? All signs point to "NO".

As far as drawing lines in the sand, isn't that just what you have done? Like I said, I do not know TE from Adam, but if LFL gives me the option of helping prosecute them or they bring financial damage charges to me for my sale of their licensed items, guess which I am going to do? If you said "Side with LFL", you are absolutely right. I doubt there is a single one of you on your moral high horse who would not do the same. Does that make it morally right to "sell out" your compatriots in the replica prop game? No, it does not. Are plastic copies of movie items worth jail or bankruptcy? Absolutely not.

Oh, I have never had one thing I have said compared to JHyphen. I don't know what you are trying to get at, if I should be insulted, if I should feel complimented OR if I should not even give a care. I am leaning towards the latter.

 

[OldKen]

OK part of the reason that pic shows different shapes in the cheek tubes is easy to explain for anyone whos ever seen or held a real helmet...

they are flimsy as hell...

without the ears on them they are gonna sag etc in whatever way they are laying...



heres the real point though jez and sithlord... you guys are doing the same as the guys you are arguing with... :unsure

your taking sides and rationalizing it...

heres my point.

TEs stuff was derived from an origninal... so it looks that way...

same with Gino's

AA's stuff IS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ACCURATE...

bottom line the guy is a liar. he sold something under false pretenses... the proof is in the pudding.

look at the above pic... anyone who says that the SDS looks more like the original than a Gino/CRprops... is either a liar, and just trying to defend someone, or they are blind.

now back to TE... first of all we dont know EXACTLY how it went down, but we all... im pretty sure get the same feeling, that it was kinda shady... anything else is pure speculation.

but yes its crappy for the pot to call the kettle black.


and THE EVEN MORE TO THE POINT POINT....

i know that Gino himself was excited at the thought of "the original maker using the original molds" just like we all WERE... untill those of us with nit picking eyes noticed something...

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL SDS STUFF IS 100% ORIGINAL.

period.

dot

dot

dash.

so therefore, we the consumers have been lied to.

now maybe you guys dont like Gino, because he is so sure of what he knows and does concerning TKs. and you dont like TE because he snitched on a guy for doing basically the same thing he does...

fine.

but both of them make/made better more accurate buckets than SDS (other than his batch in 76... those were great.)

i really dont see what is left to discuss untill more FACTS come out, untill then its speculation and nay-saying

the only thing i know in my heart that is FACT about ALL of this... is AAs stuff is not what he claims it to be.

and thats pretty much all that concerns me.


oh and i dont mean any offense to jez or sithlord... i know you guys are very knowledgable in the ways of the SW props... but i think everyone here is arguing in circles.

i understand why you are comming to AAs defense... but ill never understand why/how you think that an SDS bucket is more accurate that what Gino has done...

i dont get it and never will...

no warbly lines or photoshop is going to change my mind... or anyone elses with like minded thoughts on the subject.

 

[atacpdx]

To see the UK courts/law's own general stance on creative rights and case jurisdiction, see here:

http://www.therpf.com/index.php?showtopic=117633

I think you'll see clearly why LFL believes it can get enforcement and why perhaps AA should be nervous.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Sep 30 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]1329441[/snapback]</div>

The tube sections before assembly are completely flimsy. They will take on whatever shape that is dictated to them by the curvature of the lowver part of the earcaps. I could take my faceplate and easily with my finger and thumb, gently squish it into just about any position I wanted. Fat, skinny, whatever.

Sometimes I think that if only I were to send one of my helmets to Thomas for him to keep, all would become clear to him. He would immediately understand everything we've ever tried to show and all this would end.
But then I remembered that for that to work I'd actually have to send one to him. :unsure
[/b]

The photos I showed of helmets in front of SDS studios do not have earcaps. That is their natural shape. If what you say is true, then you should be able to replicate these views using your new helmet....

I actually used to have one of yours....or at least a Gino/CRPROPs helmet...numbered as well .

(EDITED out COA of my own accord....PM me if you'd like to see it.....out of respect for DG)

Ears? Here's a newly updated set of screencaps I did of ears...the ears can look different depending on how they are trimmed...

 

[GINO]

Actually, that's not one of mine. That certificate is a joke that crprops put with helmets he put together for $hits and giggles. It is meaningless.

I absolutely can't believe that you still think the SDS helmet's parts are correct.
You are probably the last person on the rpf to think so.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(exoray @ Sep 30 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]1329478[/snapback]</div>

If you don't believe ignoring a C&D, ignoring a complaint, ignoring the US legal system and continuing sales after judgement isn't "thumbing his nose" then what exactly would be?

Well since he obviously has a working relationship with LFL, I wouldn't reach that far... It's not like they would have any problem locating him, and pounding him down if they felt he was thumbing his nose at them... There is and obvioulsy has been more to this story then what is public...
[/b]

The jurisdiction of the complaint was addressed....so saying it was ignored is inaccurate. He believes he has rights since he did the work. It is clear that TE has no rights whatsoever in this regard. I would hardly call making a statement having a "working" relationship with LFL since there is no business contract involved....or is there?

Yes there is more to this story...like TE never mentioned to LFL that he is an unlicensed helmet/armor producer, just like AA. :rolleyes

Before you said that all that matters is what is written by LFL in the complaint, now you say that there is more to the story than was made public.