Suggestion RPF Wiki - Is it needed?

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Too Much Garlic

Master Member
If it is planned to do something similar to what was done to TDH, then no thanks. The site runs like **** now and takes forever to scroll down and is basically annoying. I stopped going there because of it.

Also... the more info that is organized and made easy to find... kills enthusiasm and the community, as there'd be no reason to worry with the forum anymore, just go visit the archives. People are lazy and want things served to them neat and easily... but... they lose interest when it actually IS served to them neat and easily... 'cause where's the surge when finding an item or piece of info after a long hunt... where are the friends you make when doing your search.

It'll just become a lazy man's archive and discussions will die out.
 

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JoeR

Sr Member
Qui, you nailed it. SHARING is what it is all about. To me, if I had to sum this hobby up in one word, it would be "sharing." Some are more inclined to do it than others. Some seem to think the hording and stockpiling of information equates to power, but the entire dynamic of the internet is turning away from that and more and more toward getting information out there and getting it in everyone's face. I can't tell you how exciting it is to see that slowly beginning to take hold here. Those who refuse to share and continue to horde will eventually find themselves outdated and irrelevant.
I couldn't agree more. This is a great idea.

Joe
 

Xhiwar

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Also... the more info that is organized and made easy to find... kills enthusiasm and the community, as there'd be no reason to worry with the forum anymore, just go visit the archives. People are lazy and want things served to them neat and easily... but... they lose interest when it actually IS served to them neat and easily... 'cause where's the surge when finding an item or piece of info after a long hunt... where are the friends you make when doing your search.

It'll just become a lazy man's archive and discussions will die out.

I understand where you're coming from, but when I first read this thread, I was thinking more of an archive of reference material (i.e. screenshots, behind-the-scenes pics of the props) which I think would be a great idea!

While you can find some reference pictures of most props on the web, the most interesting and revealing pics are either hoarded by some people or are just not hosted anywhere anymore. It would be great to have a gallery of good and hi-res pics, say, of the 10-hole Hero Pulse Rifle instead of rifling through all threads on the Aliens Legacy Forum containing the words "pulse" and/or "rifle".

As an added bonus, there could be tutorials, but even then it's not likely that the forums here will die out. There's always something else to build.

So, I'm all for it, and I'll gladly share all my reference material that is cluttering my hard disk with all of you. :D

Cheers!
Xhiwar
 

jackdoud

Sr Member
Also... the more info that is organized and made easy to find... kills enthusiasm and the community, as there'd be no reason to worry with the forum anymore, just go visit the archives.
I see it as the total opposite. Making info easier to find will increase the number of people engaged in prop building as the barrier to entry (having to dig through tons of info) is lowered. Instead of having a bunch of "how do I" or "what part is" threads we'd have more "build progress" and "show off" threads. Instead of taking a ton of time researching something relatively common like an E-11 a new person could crank one out faster and then move on to something else maybe less well documented.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Also... the more info that is organized and made easy to find... kills enthusiasm and the community, as there'd be no reason to worry with the forum anymore, just go visit the archives. People are lazy and want things served to them neat and easily... but... they lose interest when it actually IS served to them neat and easily... 'cause where's the surge when finding an item or piece of info after a long hunt... where are the friends you make when doing your search.

It'll just become a lazy man's archive and discussions will die out.
I certainly understand where you are coming from but as with a few others, totally disagree. People are always going to want to show off their efforts and are always going to want to tell you how they took the standard technique and improved on it. And I could never advocate making information harder to find in an effort to improve stats or participation.
 

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Too Much Garlic

Master Member
Well, what about all the threads where people say things have become boring because "everything" has been found and everything is easy to access. There's no hunt... there's lack of joy and community spirit, when you have it as a free-for-all, where any info is just a click away. I'm not suggesting making things harder to find... but the odd "what is this part" and "how do I do this" tends to bring new things to the table - all that will die out. Sure... maybe not as quickly as if it was a forum dealing with just one major character... but it will diminish discussion.

Who are to keep tabs on it whether the info is accurate or not? Will alternative theories be written down as well? Who controls the info?

Can only say... with a forum as large and as all-encompassing as the RPF... it's going to be an insane amount of information to go into the archive pages. And sadly, no... it won't likely generate more discussion... it'll create less. I'm not trying to be a spoilsport or try to squach enthusiasm... as I once did think that easy access and better organized info and pictures would generate more discussion and a better community feeling where people would post info and pictures to help make things better... sad truth is... not likely gonna happen.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Well, what about all the threads where people say things have become boring because "everything" has been found and everything is easy to access. There's no hunt... there's lack of joy and community spirit, when you have it as a free-for-all, where any info is just a click away. I'm not suggesting making things harder to find... but the odd "what is this part" and "how do I do this" tends to bring new things to the table - all that will die out. Sure... maybe not as quickly as if it was a forum dealing with just one major character... but it will diminish discussion.
Should I give you the politically correct answer or the real answer? This site, like any site, and this hobby, like any hobby, is what YOU make it. Now that might seem like a cop-out but it is true. For those who like to claim that this hobby has become boring... well, I don't know what to tell them.

I look at threads like this:

Fallout 3 Laser Rifle

and this:

Rambo First Blood Props

and this:

New Challenge... Sandcrawler

and I laugh at the idea that things are boring. Things aren't boring... things are DIFFERENT. Some people are able to adapt and change with the times and some can only hang on to yesterday and complain about today not being like yesterday. This site used to be centered around the discovery of Star Wars based found parts.... and we found most of them... so the site isn't as focused on that ONE aspect of a very LARGE hobby. Some can mourn that completion or they can move on to other very interesting and exciting aspects.

I guess some can sit around and cry like Alexander because they believe we have conquered all the known world or they can lift their head and realize there are so many other things we haven't even begun to scratch the surface on.

Who are to keep tabs on it whether the info is accurate or not? Will alternative theories be written down as well? Who controls the info?
Who is John Galt? The staff has always handled such things and with the proper planning and input from the members, I am sure this can be handled as well. You are making this sound like it is something completely new and different from what we have already when really it is simply a better vehicle to organize the information.


Can only say... with a forum as large and as all-encompassing as the RPF... it's going to be an insane amount of information to go into the archive pages.
Having done a lot of the work on TDH's wiki, which is sadly mostly unfinished due to the time I put in here, I can agree with you 110%. It will be a massive effort, but I think the results will be worth it.


And sadly, no... it won't likely generate more discussion... it'll create less. I'm not trying to be a spoilsport or try to squach enthusiasm... as I once did think that easy access and better organized info and pictures would generate more discussion and a better community feeling where people would post info and pictures to help make things better... sad truth is... not likely gonna happen.
The purpose of this site isn't necessarily to "generate more discussion." We aren't here just to be big or to see how many threads can be started. We are here to share information and if a wiki is a better vehicle to do this, why in the world wouldn't we use it. I have been saying for a couple years now that discussion forums like this one are on their way out as a technology and all that will be left one day is the info. Why not be proactive and get that info archived in a concise and meaningful way now?
 

Qui-Gonzalez

Master Member
Art, I have always had one bug-a-boo about this place and it is the archived threads. The images are long dead, but very helpful when they were here. If this Wiki can solve that, then this is just one more reason to get it done.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Art, I have always had one bug-a-boo about this place and it is the archived threads. The images are long dead, but very helpful when they were here. If this Wiki can solve that, then this is just one more reason to get it done.
The archived thread forum was a pre-wiki attempt to retain useful information and was certainly the best option at the time, but certainly had its limitations, as you mentioned. With a more robust software package and server we now have the ability to upload photos and maintain them on our own server ensuring that the information and images are there for future generations. Honestly, if we had an unlimited stream of revenue, I would turn off the ability to link to images outside of this site and require members to upload images here to ensure we didn't lose anything.

As most of you know, I am bringing a lot of experience here from TDH.. and another thing I would like to see, aside from a wiki is a well developed gallery but again, right now, we couldn't financially support the server space and bandwidth if we became the flickr of props.
 

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AJ Quick

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the kind words about the Ghostbusters Community Adam.

I would make more sites like Ghostbusters Fans if I could get some more domains and have a lot of people willing to help. The ability to have people edit pages of the site like a Wiki has been a great thing, but a burden at the same time. A lot of pages need work, and a lot of people keep saying "someone else will do it". Others don't use them or don't know that they exist which is always a problem on any site.

I think the RPF has a lot of information. It would be extremely beneficial for people to start oragnizing that information in an easy to search Wiki... or as was mentioned send users to those other sites that may already have it like TDH.
 

exoray

Master Member
and a lot of people keep saying "someone else will do it".
AJ I think a lot of that has some validity and reason, that being some do not want to or hesitate to participle because all they would be doing is "parroting" what they read or heard 2nd hand... Not that there is anything wrong with the type of sharing but 2nd hand hearsay without actually grasping it fully yourself, leads to mistakes, misinformation and almost certainly a lack of the full picture and facts...

And then my biggest pet peeve about those that strive for creating such a detailed database is the naysayers that only want to slag on such a project with "it's close enough", "who cares" or "you are wasting your time" gets tiring and annoying for those that do care...

On that note, AJ you have done a wonderful job with the wiki theme on GB Fans and it's certainly inspiring, I even have a few pages I have been meaning to create for it, but time is short... Hopefully my personal life settles down enough this year and I can once again focus on some left over half done projects like those wiki pages...

A 'generic' prop wiki site IMO would be cool, especially for 'found' parts... As trying to source information on simple found parts for a prop can be daunting sometimes, even frustrating... But the manpower to supervise the 'claims' and edits done, and stop the head butting among certain groups could be daunting...
 

exoray

Master Member
The Ghostbusters guys have also been great in their prop support material about suggestions about alternate ways of building things on the cheap, or when supplies are hard to come by.
Adam you are entirely right on this, lots of support for cheaper and alternate options, but that support generally doesn't carry over well to the other side as there has been a lot of negative support and naysayers for those that want to take it to the next level... Not only in the GB community but many of the prop communities... I have seen many a thread about nailing down fine and minute details, turn into a 'get a life' debacles, or greed... With the negative effect being those that are in a position to reveal information, or shed light by one means or another simply taking it private or saying too bad to the rest of you but the rotten apples spoiled it for everyone... I have seen more threads on the RPF head down this path then I care to count, a wiki would inevitably head down the same path...
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
I would make more sites like Ghostbusters Fans if I could get some more domains and have a lot of people willing to help. The ability to have people edit pages of the site like a Wiki has been a great thing, but a burden at the same time. A lot of pages need work, and a lot of people keep saying "someone else will do it". Others don't use them or don't know that they exist which is always a problem on any site.

I think the RPF has a lot of information. It would be extremely beneficial for people to start oragnizing that information in an easy to search Wiki... or as was mentioned send users to those other sites that may already have it like TDH.
Ectoman, I feel your pain like you wouldn't believe, especially in regard to TDH's wiki. :( Kills my soul that I don't have more time to complete it and get it rolling but right now the RPF needs my attention more than TDH.

I am not a GB fan but I always love seeing well done sites and will be sure to check out what you guys have!

Something to consider and part of my long term strategy for the RPF is to promote (instead of compete with) the best sites. The fact of the matter is, the RPF will never be able to compete with a site like yours on the topic of Ghostbusters or with TDH when it comes to Fett... so when it comes to a wiki, if there is a site that DOMINATES on a particular subject and is an authority, instead of rehashing their info or making an anemic photocopy, why not just link directly to them? Pass a little juice their way, recognize their expertise and begin to unify the larger prop community instead of ostracize it. The RPF does need to be all things to all people. As we say in our Statement of Purpose we want the RPF to be the core and central hub, but we have no delusions about being the expert on everything so I would have no issue at all with the wiki having a lot of outside links or whole sections more or less saying "want to know about this? go here!" but there are plenty of subjects that aren't covered by the niche sites which we could cover here and create outbound links for the rest. Saves us time and effort if you have already done the work and maybe we can send a few referrals your way through the links... speaking of... gbfans.com is our #32 referrer. :thumbsup
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Adam you are entirely right on this, lots of support for cheaper and alternate options, but that support generally doesn't carry over well to the other side as there has been a lot of negative support and naysayers for those that want to take it to the next level... Not only in the GB community but many of the prop communities... I have seen many a thread about nailing down fine and minute details, turn into a 'get a life' debacles, or greed... With the negative effect being those that are in a position to reveal information, or shed light by one means or another simply taking it private or saying too bad to the rest of you but the rotten apples spoiled it for everyone... I have seen more threads on the RPF head down this path then I care to count, a wiki would inevitably head down the same path...
I could see this happening as well, but there are also very easy ways in which we can limit that ability, but it will take more resources to do so. Fortunately the site is growing and we have a plan in place for such things.
 

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Xhiwar

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Kills my soul that I don't have more time to complete it and get it rolling but right now the RPF needs my attention more than TDH.
Maybe I'm not getting the point here, but isn't a wiki openly editable so that the members will make/complete the entries? Or did you not complete the implementation of the wiki into TDH?
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Just wanted to give an update. We have installed mediawiki on our test server and have installed the integration tool that links member's vBulletin accounts to mediwiki accounts, meaning you won't be required to sign up again to be able to add to the wiki (a key to making the wiki simple to use). The integration is very smooth with the new version of vBulletin and witha bit more testing we will likely roll out the wiki alongside the new vBulletin software or shortly after it.
 

AJ Quick

Well-Known Member
Can the system just use the VBulliten database? You may end up having problems if new users have to create an account on both the forum and the wiki... and then issues with closed registration times. (Should someone be able to edit the Wiki? But not be able to create an account on the forum?)
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
We don't want the wiki IN the vB database for a number of reasons (already ran into this on TDH) because 1) we might not always be on vBulletin and 2) we might not always have the two integrated. As it stands now, they will be integrated by a third party mod that allows members to sign in to vB and be automatically signed in to the wiki.

In regard to closed registration... well... we are working on that as well... ;)

I am not sure I follow your last comment. I think we will set the wiki up so that anyone can view the wiki but only members who are FULL members (past 45 days) will be able to contribute to the wiki.
 

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