Rotj At-at

[MonsieurTox]

Hello,

I was wondering, is the ROTJ AT-AT a new one or just a modified TESB's with light and some modifications (I noticed some differences on the feet).

If it's a modified TESB's, was it repainted, or did it keep the same painting ? Which one of the 4 TESB was modified for this purpose ?

Well I ask this question cuz ref pics of the ROTJ ATAT are hard to find, also hard to see in the movie, and I would like to do a good paintjob on it.

Thanks

Julien

 

[artoo77]

Hello,

I was wondering, is the ROTJ AT-AT a new one or just a modified TESB's with light and some modifications (I noticed some differences on the feet).

If it's a modified TESB's, was it repainted, or did it keep the same painting ? Which one of the 4 TESB was modified for this purpose ?

Well I ask this question cuz ref pics of the ROTJ ATAT are hard to find, also hard to see in the movie, and I would like to do a good paintjob on it.

Thanks

Julien

Julien-

To the best of my knowledge (and Jon Berg's, Walker animator) there were three hero stop motion AT-ATs built for Empire, and the fourth was a prototype...but was not used in the film. One of the three Empire walkers was used in Jedi and animated by Tom St. Amand. The only paint difference I'm aware of is the removal of the "snow" build ups here and there and the addition of grass and moss ageing.

There was also the four foot tall pyro walker used for exploding heads and falling over...

--Don Bies
former LFL Archivist

 

[MonsieurTox]

Hey Don,

Thanks !
That's very interesting, I didnt know only 3 were used ! I will try to find which one of the 3 screen used AT-AT is the ROTJ''s !
Thanks again

Julien

 

[swpropmaker]

Man I love AT-AT threads... can share some research! The AT-AT seen in ROTJ has its side guns mounted on the wrong side. The left gun is on the right side and vice versa. This can be seen in the Chronicals and in stills from the DVD. The shield portion of the gun assembly should be on the lower part of the gun body as well as the larger portion of the gun should be on bottom as well to match all the ESB AT-ATs. Maybe when they were adding the lights they put the side guns on the wrong side as the details of the side guns are completley opposite as seen in ESB.

the best picture of the ROTJ ATAT is in the ATAT fold out fromt he Sculpting a Galaxy book. Shows the front clearly and in good light.

The ROTJ ATAT can also be seen in the classic pic of MR Lucas being surrounded by all the models from the movie. Best pic of that is in the ILM effects book. It's the ATAT to his front. It has dirty feet and has the backwards side guns are still mounted. This atat can also be seen in the From SW to Indy book page 50 lower left picture (with the green dirty feet located front right side of the three).

A couple castings and 2 hero ATATs have made the museum tours and from Ive seen the only one that matches the details seen in the screen cap is the same one MR looked at to reference from the archive. The one MR photographed was a casting of this version AT-AT. This same casting was on tour and was photographed. This version ATAT is what I call the M60 ATAT as it has a large M60 tank spotlights on the side guns and was on tour for a while was the only one without the second layer of deatil as indicated in the photo.

The hero version started to come apart in between cities and eventualy recieved a clean head without any side guns or any other detail except lower chin guns. Then it was seen without any chin guns.

This version was seen on the Art of Star Wars San Fransico and the Magic of the Myth. There are pics out there of this version.. I do think it was re detailed to represent the snow version for the tour.. if its not in someones office still detailed like the ROTJ version.

From what I was told the only AT-AT currenlty in the archieves is the cast version of the M60ATAT from what I'm lead to believe there is a hero one there but is in various stages of disrepair. No photos.

I have identified 3 hero stop motion ATATs and maybe the proto not used in filming

#1 Stripe 6 hit (detail streak stripe is centered upper visor and this ATAT has 6 hit marks on the hull. This version can be seen Chronicals page 168 and 171 snow with army guy.

#2 Spots (painted white spots or splotches on hull) can be seen Chronicals page 169 top picture forground.

#3 JonBerg ATAT can be seen lower right picture with Jon Berg Chronicals page 171. Has a clear even streaks of detail on the hull and a distinct grey panel ont he hull (is on tour was first photographed at the MAgic of the Myth 1998) since the neck has deteriated be yound repair and the head no longer can remain int he upright postion. Several photos of this version can be found on the net. The give away is the dark uniform streaks on the hull.

#4 M60ATAT Ive seen the hero model with a replacement head and a house cast of this version currenlty on tour. Picture can be seen in the SW to Indy book page 50 with correct side guns and hull markings. Cannot find any screen used captures showing the M60 spotlight style guns in use maybe this was the prototype Don B. mentioned. Possible the side guns were replaced for the photo in 1994. (notice some of the leg armature is missing from the upper and lower legs this can be seen on the hero version while it was on tour) Prototype version?

Hope that helps a bit...

Steve

 

[swpropmaker]

Heres the pic from the Sculpting a Galaxy Book...

Hope that helps

Steve

 

[MonsieurTox]

Thanks Steve ! That's a great help !

I never noticed that the "M60 ATAT" was the ROTJ ATAT !
Good since I use it as ref

Ok I see what you mean with the side guns.

Too bad the ROTJ doesnt have the second level of panel details

If you look at the SaG pic you can see that the feet fit the ground perfectly. They dont seem to have the underside details. In all the other pics or in the movie (TESB you can see a "gap" due to those bottom details. (clearly seen in the Jon Berg's pic).

 

[Treadwell]

One of the three Empire walkers was used in Jedi and animated by Tom St. Amand.

Using go-motion, yes?

 

[MonsieurTox]

That's probably why it doesnt have the parts under the feet ! I think that's the explanation.

 

[robn1]

The AT-ATs were stop motion, only the AT-STs were go motion.

Rob

 

[MonsieurTox]

Im not sure for the ROTJ !

 

[robn1]

The four legged walker would have needed a very elaborate rig for
go motion, and also would need to be blue screened. Too much work
for two short clips. Here's a scan from Cinefex #13:

I cropped and pasted a little to keep it tidy

Rob

 

[MonsieurTox]

Very interesting photo, thanks that's the dio Im going to do !

Well, you're maybe right but as Steve said, the ROTJ is on the pic with Lucas surrounded by all the star wars models, I guess it's on the foreground (I ca notice some earth and grass on the feet). I dont know if Im correct but the bix box on which it is looks like a go-motion system !

 

[swpropmaker]

I think based upon the table with the two slots taken out could be a go motion device and was used on the close up shot of the ATAT as seen above pic Tox. I have never read or heard anyone say it was used though (on the ATAT) the pic is indeed interesting... that witht he missing bottoms of the feet.

There was a four legged go motion device made as it was used in the film Dragon slayer. The shot of the ATAT from above its still a bit jerkey to be go motion. So maybe they used both. The picture with George and all his toys shows slits where a ATAT could take a few steps and the feet would not be need to be seen so hense no blue screen so maybe a gomotion rig.

For the most part the ATATs were filmed against practicle backgrounds and or matte paintings and stop motion was used to animate them.

The AT-ST gomotion rig can be seen in several pictures with the feet attached and shot agianst blue screen. Based upon that its possible that a rig was made for the close up shot as it walked into the platform were the feet would not be seen.

The two slits on the table are to perfect to be random. They match the feet placement perfectly and would account for why the bottom of the feet are missing... very interesting...

Another thing I noticed in the pull back shot of the walking ATAT the platform is practicle and used to light the approach. When you see the ATAT walking towards the actual platform (matte painting) you never see its feet. Hense hiding the go motion device possibly... who knows... that table with the slits is compelling... notice how they used the maquettes to hide the slits near the ATAT.

Steve

 

[rider]

If you can find a clearer print of that Lucas pic, you will notice the table with the slits actually has the AT-AT feet drawn onto it for reference and stop motion continuity.

Like was said, Go-Motion was only used for some of the AT-ST's on Jedi, and correctly stated, became big on Dragonslayer and E.T's bikes.

The only non animated AT-AT that I know of was in ESB, in the wake of Luke's stealth attack on one, when it explodes and falls, if you look behind, you will notice the one in the distance actually was rigged to move slightly in the real time fall shot. Great stuff.

 

[CGClone]

man, this is one of the most interesting threads I have seen in a while..thanks or sharing the knowledge..share more, share more LOL

 

[rider]

and animated by Tom St. Amand.

Sorry to interrupt, but I'd kick myself I did not ask :angel...

Don Sir,

What is Mr. Amand up to these days, still in the buisiness?
While I'm at it, is Ira Keeler still about?

Thank you so much.

We now return you to your regular broadcast

 

[Treadwell]

Agreed that the slots could just as easily be there to facilitate stop-motion as go-. In Stop, you need a surface to screw the feet down onto while they're touching the ground.

I theorize that the wide shot of the walker was stop motion but the closeup was go. The movement in the closeup looked very different than ESB...although I guess that could be explained by the smaller steps the walker was taking to line up with the platform and/or an animator who didn't animate walkers on ESB. (To be clear, I think the movement looks great, no matter what technique was used.)

The ET bike go-motion predated work on ROTJ, did it not? And the first use was Dragonslayer, correct? I keep coming across references to go-motion being used for ESB (even in Cinefex!), but the technique was not in use at the time at all (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[rider]

Absolutely correct, ET and Slayer predated Jedi, both released in 82.

(You just made me put the DVD in ). Jedi's AT-AT was all animated,

Go-Motion to my knowledge only ever happened on the bluescreen stage.

Not a clue about the cinefex reference, and so perhaps Go motion could have been tested* on Empires AT-ST perhaps as that was a comp shot. (*Perhaps not by computer but with simple puppet rods).

 

[Treadwell]

I guess rigging a stop motion model for go would be a rather big and costly job just for one or two shots.

 

[rider]

Funny you should say that, as I do remember reading in the planning stages ILM pondering about radio controlled/mechanical AT-AT's for Empire, and as you say, they figured it would not have been cost effective, and a mammoth task to get workable in a short time, (not to mention maybe the model scale required) which is why they went for stop motion ones.

As to go-motion, I'd guess as long as you had something to hold it up, and loosened the legs its workable, and found a way to puppet the head. But then you would need to shoot it a particular way to match the environment angle and matte painting etc, so its not that it was impossible by any means, just faster and can be be done more in camera in one go the way they did.

I guess the most intense example is probably Boss' Alien 3 puppet. Didn't Richard Edlund say it took ages for the puppeteers to synch so they would'nt crash into one another. Compare that to say, a speeder bike with just a rod on the rider puppet head. So yeah, it can get complicated.

Cool topic this.